ODNR Deer Harvest comparison

[RedCloud]

Open houses are a joke. Say anything about deer and you are either laughed out of the room or quickly overlooked and the next question is asked for to get around actually answering it. Deer are nothing more then the quail, grouse, or pheasant numbers. Wipe them out and have hunters complain but do nothing about it. This is why there is empty rooms at these meetings not the fact we as hunters don't care. More of the fact we are sick of being overlooked and laughed at so why bother going.

Last year at Strouds I kept my mouth shut because Joe was doing a mighty fine job asking the questions and like Jesse, I am nothing more then a dumb Redneck that only knows of what I have seen over the years. I don't have an issue speaking my mind of what I have seen over the past few years of my properties and what I have seen while driving thousands of miles a year covering many counties. I say, if Tonk shows this year, we shut down the tunes and everybody pull up a chair and do a roundtable Q&A? I'm sure everybody would chime in if they knew he was there instead of slipping in quietly and slipping back out without being announced to the entire group. If I had not been standing beside Joe last year I wouldn't have known who the heck he was other then he rode in with MREX lol.

 

[brock ratcliff]

The county is in fine shape, Seth. The southern region still has good numbers. It's this pesky northern, agricultural area that doesn't hold up it's end of the deal. Just a couple of miles north of Greenfield is the abyss of Fayette Co, so it stands to reason that we should not have many deer around here. You stay on your side of Greenfield in Ross Co, and you will see deer. It's amazing what a couple of miles will do. Then again, the guys from MI were down scouting a couple of weeks ago out your way and decided they would go to the WN this year in hopes of finding something to shoot. Dang shame, really got to like those guys over the last 15 years or so.

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

Joe, have you read Bestul's article in Field and Stream yet? I'll bring it this wkend.

 

[brock ratcliff]

I have... And with the realities of today as was pointed out in the article, I applaud the DOW for at least sticking up to those applying pressure this passed spring. I have hope the wholesale slaughter will be curtailed. The only thing I find bothersome about it all is that the man in charge of issuing the herd "estimate" has apparently seen no difference in the herd (and yeah, I know it's a statewide number).

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

I have...

Hit that nail right on the head, didn't he?

 

[Jackalope]

I really hope you guys ask him some good questions, plant thoughts and seeds into his mind. He may not initially respond like he cares, but at least the seed will be planted. He is just a human like the rest of us. I have a feeling he may be potentially clueless on what is going on outside of Athens county, other then what an excel sheet tells him or the feedback he receives from hunters. That is not knocking him, he's just one human in one place just like the rest of us. I would have no clue on what is going on in Lake county for example, other then what harvest figures tell me (which we all know is only part of what should be looked at when determining regs) or what local hunters in that area tell me. It is our responsibility as hunters to get that information to him. What he does with that information is up to him, at least we have done our part. If he makes some really bad decisions, that's on his hands to deal with, not ours, as long as we have done our part to inform him otherwise. Just look at our open houses for example. They are almost empty. That sickens me more then anything. I don't care if you think the ODNR cares or not, we should be filling that whole room and have a line waiting outside. Nobody shows = all is well. We as hunters like to complain among ourselves, yet when it comes to getting that info into the hands of people that can actually do something about it, we seem to be silent. That is a major problem, because I can guarantee you that farmers and insurance companies have no problem complaining to the DOW. We need to remind them that we are their core constituents, the ones that pay the bills, and that our opinions and thoughts should always come to mind first when making regulations. If every single person who has an issue with our current deer regulations does not speak their voice, we have no reason to complain. Every time I step foot into these deer deprived woods around my house,or onto our public land that is used and abused, I get absolutely sickened by what has been allowed to happen here. I use that passion to motivate me. When passion meets facts, you tend to really get peoples attention.

While I agree with many of your points about hunters need to be more active with the DNR. There are others that I think you might not understand. Tonk, knows and understands full well the impact of the decisions that have been made at the DNR. He fully comprehends what has and is happening to the deer population. His appearance of ignorance as to the real impact is a rouse to maintain the charade. For the DNR to successfully continue their plan of dedicating the population they need the hunting community to be rather oblivious to their true impact. If Hunters were to realize that what the DNR is allowing them to do is very detrimental to their own sport The DNR would begin to lose their only tool for accomplishing their goal. It is for this reason that Tonk must deny deny deny even in the face of insurmountable data to the contrary. Tonk is not an ignorant person and I personally believe he is a fully capable biologist.

However, He is nothing more than a single cog in a very big wheel. Powers much greater than he have set this in motion. His very existence within the ranks of the DNR depends upon his cooperation If he does not go along they will simply replace him with someone that will. It is therefore not only in the best interest of the DNR for him to maintain the charade, but also in the best interest of his job.

The reality is our Department of natural resources has been overtaken by political lobbyist for insurance and farm interest through our state legislators, and hunters are bent over the table. If Tonk wants to keep his job he'll play along. 30 State lawmakers showed up at the door of the DNR to petition against the removal of the two day gun season. These lawmakers are nothing more than shills bought and paid for with lobbyist dollars. Now imagine if Tonk actually Admitted they killed too many and we need to increase the deer population, those 30 state lawmakers would be asking for his head.

 

[Jackalope]

Hit that nail right on the head, didn't he?

Yes he did.

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

However, He is nothing more than a single cog in a very big wheel. Powers much greater than he have set this in motion. His very existence within the ranks of the DNR depends upon his cooperation If he does not go along they will simply replace him with someone that will. It is therefore not only in the best interest of the DNR for him to maintain the charade, but also in the best interest of his job.

The reality is our Department of natural resources has been overtaken by political lobbyist for insurance and farm interest through our state legislators, and hunters are bent over the table. If Tonk wants to keep his job he'll play along. 30 State lawmakers showed up at the door of the DNR to petition against the removal of the two day gun season. These lawmakers are nothing more than shills bought and paid for with lobbyist dollars. Now imagine if Tonk actually Admitted they killed too many and we need to increase the deer population, those 30 state lawmakers would be asking for his head.

No, Tonk will get put down the hall to answer the check station hotline and collect his salary...and then they'd find another guy to do the job. It's Tonk's bosses that get hosed.

 

[mrex]

I told Tonk last year on our way to the camp, "prepare to meet your harshest cyber critics." The next day he called me and asked what the hell I was talking about. The the winter rolled around and the brain trust fired up again so I took the liberty of pulling together a PowerPoint with some of the best material from this board to present at this years Strouds get together...even added some of the "crew" stuff that's been forwarded to me. Unfortunately, the hard drive on my laptop crashed this summer and I lost the ambition to do it again.

I've said this before and I'll repeat, "this is the PERFECT venue to ask honest questions and get honest answers." You guys have publicly verbally assaulted Mike Tonkovich for several years. I'm bringing him to the campfire more so for him to have a chance to defend himself...and personally, if someone decides to show their ass, I hope he kicks it.

 

[LonewolfNopack]

Here is an honest question. Does Tonk really expect not to be in the hot seat, 24/7/365?? He is a state deer biologist after all. I would just assume that came with the job. Questioning a man about his duties as a deer biologist is nothing close to "assaulting" a man himself, as you so word it. Every deer biologist I have talked to seems to understand they are going to be ridiculed as a biologist no matter what they do, and they seem to accept it just fine. I would imagine he should have an extra layer of skin by now.

 

[mrex]

Here is an honest question. Does Tonk really expect not to be in the hot seat, 24/7/365?? He is a state deer biologist after all. I would just assume that came with the job. Questioning a man about his duties as a deer biologist is nothing close to "assaulting" a man himself, as you so word it. Every deer biologist I have talked to seems to understand they are going to be ridiculed as a biologist no matter what they do, and they seem to accept it just fine. I would imagine he should have an extra layer of skin by now.

There's a big difference between criticism and some of the cheap shots and personal attacks taken on this forum.

 

[Jackalope]

I told Tonk last year on our way to the camp, "prepare to meet your harshest cyber critics." The next day he called me and asked what the hell I was talking about. The the winter rolled around and the brain trust fired up again so I took the liberty of pulling together a PowerPoint with some of the best material from this board to present at this years Strouds get together... --- Unfortunately, the hard drive on my laptop crashed this summer and I lost the ambition to do it again.

I've said this before and I'll repeat, "this is the PERFECT venue to ask honest questions and get honest answers." You guys have publicly verbally assaulted Mike Tonkovich for several years. I'm bringing him to the campfire more so for him to have a chance to defend himself...and personally, if someone decides to show their ass, I hope he kicks it.

So which is it Mike? Do you want a discussion of the civility and productivity we had last year? Or do you want me to go at him barrels blazing in debate? You're contradicting yourself.

If you want a civil meeting of the minds like last year, then perhaps it's not the best idea to post on another forum months later in an attempt to belittle about how our discussion was like a pampered chef party.

Then today say you brought him to defend himself and answer questions and if someone wants to show their ass you hope he kicks it?

So which is it mike? On one hand you run people down in public for being cordial and mannered, and on the other you say people shouldn't show their ass?

I can break it down to him either way Mike. He's your friend not mine. It is you who has set the expected tone with your underhanded remarks posted after our last meeting about how it was like a pampered chef party.

The decision is up to you mike. I can get my point across while remaining civil. Or I can take him to task in hearty debate. I have a 5 inch stack of paper with nothing but data that would love to hear a valid excuse.

 

[Jackalope]

There's a big difference between criticism and some of the cheap shots and personal attacks taken on this forum.

Sorry. Last I checked he was a public figure responsible for Ohio's deer herd and PR for that position. I have said nothing here I wouldn't tell him myself. My opinion of the mans job is of no reflection to him personally as a person. Jim Blame Flam could be our head biologist and I would feel and make statements the same way. If he feels his name has been drug through the mud over the antics of our DNR then perhaps he should consider a position with less public spotlight.

 

[Milo]

As kasichs current appointee that would/could possibly "replace tonk" is probably far worse for our deer herd than what tonk is doing(or not doing based on perspective)...given that fact ... just when you think you have hit rock bottom, the politician find a great way to let you down even further. I have less trust in the current government appointees than i do tonk. That being said...i smell a cage match.

 

[LonewolfNopack]

Sorry. Last I checked he was a public figure responsible for Ohio's deer herd and PR for that position. I have said nothing here I wouldn't tell him myself. My opinion of the mans job is of no reflection to him personally as a person. Jim Blame Flam could be our head biologist and I would feel and make statements the same way. If he feels his name has been drug through the mud over the antics of our DNR then perhaps he should consider a position with less public spotlight.

Exactly.

 

[mrex]

So which is it Mike? Do you want a discussion of the civility and productivity we had last year? Or do you want me to go at him barrels blazing in debate? You're contradicting yourself.

If you want a civil meeting of the minds like last year, then perhaps it's not the best idea to post on another forum months later in an attempt to belittle about how our discussion was like a pampered chef party.

Then today say you brought him to defend himself and answer questions and if someone wants to show their ass you hope he kicks it?

So which is it mike? On one hand you run people down in public for being cordial and mannered, and on the other you say people shouldn't show their ass?

I can break it down to him either way Mike. He's your friend not mine. It is you who has set the expected tone with your underhanded remarks posted after our last meeting about how it was like a pampered chef party.

The decision is up to you mike. I can get my point across while remaining civil. Or I can take him to task in hearty debate. I have a 5 inch stack of paper with nothing but data that would love to hear a valid excuse.

I just want to meet the tough guy Joe...bring him with you.

 

[Milo]

Mike, if there is a chance you throw the singlet back on...im makin the drive
..

 

[Jackalope]

As kasichs current appointee that would/could possibly "replace tonk" is probably far worse for our deer herd than what tonk is doing(or not doing based on perspective)...given that fact ... just when you think you have hit rock bottom, the politician find a great way to let you down even further. I have less trust in the current government appointees than i do tonk. That being said...i smell a cage match.

Two years ago or even a year ago I would have agreed with you. However at this point I don't believe it matters much who it is. I don't believe hunters have an advocate within the DNR, anymore than if they just got rid of the position or put the lobbyist themselves in there. The deer population in many areas of the state are at a levels where extreme cuts to seasons would have to be made for recovery anytime soon. And the rest of the state is heading there in a hurry. It's a snowball that I believe even an insurance lobbyist himself would be proud of if place in charge of our deer population.

 

[Milo]

Two years ago or even a year ago I would have agreed with you. However at this point I don't believe it matters much who it is. I don't believe hunters have an advocate within the DNR, anymore than if they just got rid of the position or put the lobbyist themselves in there. The deer population in many areas of the state are at a levels where extreme cuts to seasons would have to be made for recovery anytime soon. And the rest of the state is heading there in a hurry. It's a snowball that I believe even an insurance lobbyist himself would be proud of if place in charge of our deer population.

Maybe maybe not. Dont let them give you cauliflour ear..that shit is nasty..

 

[bowhunter1023]

Someone's truck is getting shit on... lmao