Mike Tonkovich

[brock ratcliff]

Mike,

The above bold is what I felt expectations were.

I was unfortunately not able to attend this year, but felt it was really the same/similar objective to last years TOO weekend. From an outsider looking in at what has been docummented regarding the discussion, I feel Mike was trying to tip his hat in certain areas that he agrees with much of what we say or type. I believe there is probably more alignment then what most of us feel or believe becasue at the end of the day, Mike is toeing a line. That is his choice as we all choose our employers, but the harsh reality is, he is trying to satisfy various parties with drastically different interests.

My take on our struggle (perceived or not) is that we have data that leads us to a conclusion. As a result, we are looking for action to reverse what we interpret from the numbers. Reading between the lines from these posts, posts over the years and last years conversation at Strouds, Mike is pulling the strings where he can to manipulate all impacted parties as best he can to try and balance them all and keep them all somewhat happy. The reduction in tags to lead the hunters to believe steps are being taken all the while introducing an early muzzy doe only for the other interest groups is what leads me to this conclusion. I get this...

What I still struggle with is the overall harvest direction. To desire another 30% reduction in kills doesn't make sense to me. Then again, I am not the biologist. I am just one who enjoys seeing deer rather than being skuncked and getting a few opportunities to harvest one periodically. To still be based on farmer surveys from over a decade ago and to only manage by kill rate rather than incorporating additional available information is where I struggle. I guess with Ohio being 95% or so privately owned, from what some have written, Mike showed his cards that we need to take it upon ourselves to not only do what we feel is "right" but to work to influence the masses to follow a similar approach.

Spot on.

If he would like to see the harvest numbers down to what they were in the late 80's, I contend he could take a different approach than he is currently using; try using the same restrictive regulations we had in the late 80's or early 90's... I would almost guarantee he will see the harvest total at 170,000 or so. The number show we have the same, or smaller herd now as we did then! So, with the same opportunity, we would kill the same or less deer! Then, he could tell the FB, "Look, goal reached"!
A practical but not plausible solution. Now, make me king.

 

[gavennn]

Interesting discussion none the less. I do agree he has a difficult job. Everyone is protecting their interests.

 

["J"]

Bottom line, nothing will change in our favor until deer hunters get united and form a PAC too rival the insurance companies/farm bureau.... We have the numbers we just aren't organized.....

 

[rgecko23]

here ya go...some numbers from 1980. 200,00 permits sold!

http://books.google.com/books?id=yU...onepage&q=1980s ohio deer regulations&f=false

 

[RedCloud]

I know Mike T has a heck of hard job and one I would not want. Balance with the groups would not be easy at all and at times would have be slight of hand or information to a certian group just to pasify them until you can find a better answer. I honestly have no idea how the guy is not bald lol.

Bottom line is the guy is in charge of hunters intrest. I never did hear what would happen if he was to draw a line in the sand and say " We are not budging on the issue, Deal with it"

As a person I think Mike T seemed like a good guy but he is a heck of a salesman when needed

I do appreciate him taking the time the last 2 trips to come to camp and put a pulse on things and get some feedback. That in my book is huge on his part. Maybe next year he can stick around and sit back around the fire and take the hat off for a bit and enjoy camp and take it all in.

 

[reo]

Bottom line, nothing will change in our favor until deer hunters get united and form a PAC too rival the insurance companies/farm bureau.... We have the numbers we just aren't organized.....

BINGO!! Except I do not think it would take a PAC. A few thousand pissed off hunters screaming would do the trick BUT (as you stated) they would have to be organized. Organized letter/email writing, organized phone calling along with a few well timed, well placed, well organized protests would get some attention. Oh, how protests get the attention of public officials. A few thousand like minded people CAN make enough noise to get noticed.

 

[hickslawns]

BINGO!! Except I do not think it would take a PAC. A few thousand pissed off hunters screaming would do the trick BUT (as you stated) they would have to be organized. Organized letter/email writing, organized phone calling along with a few well timed, well placed, well organized protests would get some attention. Oh, how protests get the attention of public officials. A few thousand like minded people CAN make enough noise to get noticed.

Here is the problem. This takes time and money. Now let's say this happens and a group is formed. What is the ultimatum? Lower the limits or ???

 

["J"]

Here is the problem. This takes time and money. Now let's say this happens and a group is formed. What is the ultimatum? Lower the limits or ???

Get the culprits replaced through standing on politicians desk or outside their buildings picketing....

 

[Fullbore]

Here is the problem. This takes time and money. Now let's say this happens and a group is formed. What is the ultimatum? Lower the limits or ???

Not buy tags! Like that will happen, but my point being, hit them in their wallet.

 

[Jackalope]

BINGO!! Except I do not think it would take a PAC. A few thousand pissed off hunters screaming would do the trick BUT (as you stated) they would have to be organized. Organized letter/email writing, organized phone calling along with a few well timed, well placed, well organized protests would get some attention. Oh, how protests get the attention of public officials. A few thousand like minded people CAN make enough noise to get noticed.

Go for it. I got serious about It on here once. Was going to form a PAC, solicit donations from hunting industry businesses in ohio, which btw is a one billion dollar business in ohio. Was looking at a booth at the deer and turkey expo. The end result was a phone call threatening enough lawsuits to burry my ass if I tried. We're fighting an industry who is saving hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars a year by keeping deer numbers low. And they have plenty of full time lawyers already on the payroll. They could spend 1% of their savings on frivolous lawsuits and bankrupt 300 of us in the PAC in a month.

 

[LonewolfNopack]

Go for it. I got serious about It on here once. Was going to form a PAC, solicit donations from hunting industry businesses in ohio, which btw is a one billion dollar business in ohio. Was looking at a booth at the deer and turkey expo. The end result was a phone call threatening enough lawsuits to burry my ass if I tried. We're fighting an industry who is saving hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars a year by keeping deer numbers low. And they have plenty of full time lawyers already on the payroll. They could spend 1% of their savings on frivolous lawsuits and bankrupt 300 of us in the PAC in a month.

I bet we could find a few lawyers out there as well who are passionate about this issue. They would probably donate their services. Or maybe not. All I know something needs done beyond me not shooting any does because I do not own 2,000 acres to control other hunters kills on. I'm at wits end with this crap. Absolutely no reason hunters should not be the DOW's number one and most important constituents.

 

[hickslawns]

Go for it. I got serious about It on here once. Was going to form a PAC, solicit donations from hunting industry businesses in ohio, which btw is a one billion dollar business in ohio. Was looking at a booth at the deer and turkey expo. The end result was a phone call threatening enough lawsuits to burry my ass if I tried. We're fighting an industry who is saving hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars a year by keeping deer numbers low. And they have plenty of full time lawyers already on the payroll. They could spend 1% of their savings on frivolous lawsuits and bankrupt 300 of us in the PAC in a month.

I remember chatting about this with you. I still think it is crap. In this country our government should not bully people into dropping causes. We have the right to organize and speak our minds. That is an example of mafia or dictatorship, not democracy. That said, knowing you the threats must have been pretty dang stern for you to drop it. It isn't often you back down from a challenge. lol

Can't say I blame you though. Not worth personal financial hardships.

 

[Jackalope]

I bet we could find a few lawyers out there as well who are passionate about this issue. They would probably donate their services. Or maybe not. All I know something needs done beyond me not shooting any does because I do not own 2,000 acres to control other hunters kills on. I'm at wits end with this crap. Absolutely no reason hunters should not be the DOW's number one and most important constituents.

No lawyer is going to go up against an insurance and farm conglomerate with hundreds of lawyers who work solely for them and have hundreds of millions at stake.

Here is a snippet from a news article about the 40 ohio senators who opposed removing the bonus gun season amongst other things.

http://www.outdoornews.com/May-2013/Council-passes-new-deer-regulations/

Whitetails Unlimited and some branches of the Quality Deer Management Association, as well as the Ohio Farm Bureau Federation, also opposed portions of the new rules.

Widener's letter urged Scott Zody, chief of the Ohio DNR’s wildlife division, to reconsider new regulations proposed by the agency. In specific contention were rules to trim bag limits in certain counties, eliminate urban hunting zones, abolish the extra deer gun weekend in December and set a statewide early muzzleloader season for antlerless deer during the second week of October (12 and 13).

 

[Gordo]

I missed the whole thing well I waited for brocks 'how to make a pizza' demo on the other side of the fire.

I'm not one for politics, but it seems like it was a good discussion going on between the guys involved. I know I would not want to try to manage the states deer herd. Tough, thankless, winless job.

Next time around I hope for some more casual conversation with the Tonk to get to know him a bit.

 

[reo]

Here is the problem. This takes time and money. Now let's say this happens and a group is formed. What is the ultimatum? Lower the limits or ???

I was not thinking ultimatum. Just a bunch of hunters sending the same message (deer are being over harvested in some areas and we want it to stop) through phone calls, letters and a protest or two but in an organized manner. Making some noise in an organized fashion. Yes it would take some time and I was probably being naïve thinking folks could get together and do this without a bunch of money and a PAC.

 

[CritterGitterToo]

An organized presence at the open house would show that we are unified without getting anyone sued. Between 3 to 5 different hunting forums with thousands of members it would be nice if we could get 20% or so to commit to the open house meetings in March. If 200 people show up together in force with the same voice, that will get noticed. I know they can play their game, but it's a start. Then, they couldn't just say, "oh, it's only a handful of hunters that are concerned about dwindling populations." They also say, "it's just an isolated issue here and there." When I went there this past March they had a sign up form and the form asked what organization you are with. A lot of the attendees were with some farm co-op or another. Seems they are being represented well at the meetings and we aren't.

 

[LonewolfNopack]

An organized presence at the open house would show that we are unified without getting anyone sued. Between 3 to 5 different hunting forums with thousands of members it would be nice if we could get 20% or so to commit to the open house meetings in March. If 200 people show up together in force with the same voice, that will get noticed. I know they can play their game, but it's a start. Then, they couldn't just say, "oh, it's only a handful of hunters that are concerned about dwindling populations." They also say, "it's just an isolated issue here and there." When I went there this past March they had a sign up form and the form asked what organization you are with. A lot of the attendees were with some farm co-op or another. Seems they are being represented well at the meetings and we aren't.

Critter,

You are exactly right about the open houses. I agree with many that they do not care what you say when you attend these things, I have been there more then once and experienced this myself. However, if there were 100 of us to walk in at the same time, saying the same thing, they would start to listen. It is absolutely asinine to complain online, and then not attend these open houses.

 

[Jackalope]

Critter,

You are exactly right about the open houses. I agree with many that they do not care what you say when you attend these things, I have been there more then once and experienced this myself. However, if there were 100 of us to walk in at the same time, saying the same thing, they would start to listen. It is absolutely asinine to complain online, and then not attend these open houses.

The thing is these open house are design for no other reason but to make you believe that they actually give a shit. They don't. It's all for show. The only way you're going to get to the DNR is through the governors office or house and senate seats. Chris Weidner the state republican Who started the letter to the DNR against closing bonus gun season took in over $90,000 in campaign funds from farm and insurance groups. Until you can buy him and the other 40 senators that showed up to put the heat on the DNR. 100, 200, 300 rednecks at an open house will continue to be pacified in the order they arrived.

 

[Fullbore]

I like this idea! It might certainly get their attention!

 

[LonewolfNopack]

The thing is these open house are design for no other reason but to make you believe that they actually give a shit. They don't. It's all for show. The only way you're going to get to the DNR is through the governors office or house and senate seats. Chris Weidner the state republican Who started the letter to the DNR against closing bonus gun season took in over $90,000 in campaign funds from farm and insurance groups. Until you can buy him and the other 40 senators that showed up to put the heat on the DNR. 100, 200, 300 rednecks at an open house will continue to be pacified in the order they arrived.

Maybe. But I would rather try and fail then not try at all. I can guarentee you a presence of 100 coordinated hunters walking in that door at the same time, with the same message, would not be forgotten. Heck, I went in there once alone, and it dam sure hasn't been forgotten.