Final number are in....

[DJK Frank 16]

I beg to differ Joe. I think we as the "trigger men" have more control of the herd than the ODNR. And if we choose to slaughter the herd, because the ODNR allows us to, then shame on us! The state sets the seasons and limits, but we decide how often to pull the trigger or loose an arrow.

But we are the "select few" in my opinion when it comes to educated hunters in the state. We know there is a problem, we know how to resolve it. The hoards and hoards of guys pushing deer during gun season out to fill every tag in their pocket are gonna shoot as many deer as they can and are allowed to in those 7 days. Those are the guys that need the regulations in place, they could give a shit less about the deer herd as long as they can shoot their 3-4 a year.

 

[Jackalope]

I beg to differ Joe. I think we as the "trigger men" have more control of the herd than the ODNR. And if we choose to slaughter the herd, because the ODNR allows us to, then shame on us! The state sets the seasons and limits, but we decide how often to pull the trigger or loose an arrow.

You're giving the hunting population as a whole too much credit. The vast majority do not have the oversight to understand at a large scale what's going on or how to fix it. If we as hunters were capable of managing our own deer heard as a collective we wouldn't need a DNR at all. We wouldn't need limits, laws, and seasons. If it worked like you're saying we wouldn't need the DNR and we could just self manage the statewide heard ourselves. That's impossible. It's never been possible, and never will be.

Our role as a collective is trigger men, and we're good at it. That's why we made the deer in Ohio go extinct. As a result we got a state organization to manage them for us and put some laws and limits around their management because we're incapable of doing that ourselves. Here we are decades later and that very organization used us agains ourselves. They knew that if they relaxed the laws and limits we would do what we've always done, kill too many. The very reason we have a DNR was used against us to our detriment. They used us agains us.

 

[MK111]

I beg to differ Joe. I think we as the "trigger men" have more control of the herd than the ODNR. And if we choose to slaughter the herd, because the ODNR allows us to, then shame on us! The state sets the seasons and limits, but we decide how often to pull the trigger or loose an arrow.

I believe we are maybe 1% of total hunters that think this responsible way. But not much more.

 

[Hortontoter]

I understand your views. I thought most hunters were sportsmen and conservationists. I mean it isn't like we have to kill deer to be able to eat. I mean if a guy can afford to buy guns, ammo, licenses and tags he can afford some burger at the local grocery store. I'm probably wrong in my thinking, but I hope we are more than 1 or 2 percent of the hunting public. If the number of hunters that truely care are that minimal than I agree we will have little bearing on the amout of deer killed year over year.

 

[Bigslam51]

I understand your views. I thought most hunters were sportsmen and conservationists. I mean it isn't like we have to kill deer to be able to eat. I mean if a guy can afford to buy guns, ammo, licenses and tags he can afford some burger at the local grocery store. I'm probably wrong in my thinking, but I hope we are more than 1 or 2 percent of the hunting public. If the number of hunters that truely care are that minimal than I agree we will have little bearing on the amout of deer killed year over year.

You've got to be kidding me. You've never been to Walmart the day before gun season and seen all the weekend warriors getting their license, tags, and slugs for their gun that probably isn't even sighted in. I was in line behind a guy the day before gun season this year and he didn't even know what kind of slugs he shoots. These are the guys that start pumping shells down range at anything with a white tail.

 

[jeremy44230]

You've got to be kidding me. You've never been to Walmart the day before gun season and seen all the weekend warriors getting their license, tags, and slugs for their gun that probably isn't even sighted in. I was in line behind a guy the day before gun season this year and he didn't even know what kind of slugs he shoots. These are the guys that start pumping shells down range at anything with a white tail.

Yeah that!!!

Scary stuff right there... There's a while bunch of folks out there that have NO business hunting!

I can see both sides of this subject. Us here TOO members, in all likelihood, are the most educated on the subject and most informed. We only represent a small portion of "hunters" in my opinion.

The rest, talk the talk and act like they are "big time" hunters and yet they have no idea what's going on...

 

[Lundy]

You've got to be kidding me. You've never been to Walmart the day before gun season and seen all the weekend warriors getting their license, tags, and slugs for their gun that probably isn't even sighted in. I was in line behind a guy the day before gun season this year and he didn't even know what kind of slugs he shoots. These are the guys that start pumping shells down range at anything with a white tail.

I agree that is a very sad sight to witness.

I have a question for you. Which is more scary to see, the guy buying shells the night before gun season of the guy buying a couple of arrows or bolts and a 3 pack of whatever the cheapest broadhead is on the rack?

If we accept that the group here on TOO is in the upper percentile of all hunters in education and skill set as compared to the hunting public, and I do think that is true, then I want to outlaw bowhunting totally. If the group here reports so many personal accounts every year of hit and lost deer with a bow and not one account with a gun this year or last year that I can remember, just imagine what the hunting public is doing in the woods with their bows. Take this same model and plug in the reported archery harvest and well....you know.

 

[Jackalope]

I understand your views. I thought most hunters were sportsmen and conservationists. I mean it isn't like we have to kill deer to be able to eat. I mean if a guy can afford to buy guns, ammo, licenses and tags he can afford some burger at the local grocery store. I'm probably wrong in my thinking, but I hope we are more than 1 or 2 percent of the hunting public. If the number of hunters that truely care are that minimal than I agree we will have little bearing on the amout of deer killed year over year.

We are conservationist. All of us. But we don't do it. Fees and taxes that we're charged to hunt goes to organizations like the DNR to handle that for us. We foot the bill, they handle the conservation.

We here and our line of thinking about personal responsibility is the minority. But the lack of most hunters being conservation minded isn't the real problem. The reason we think that way is we're informed and understand the big picture. Most don't. I think if they did they too would be more conservation minded. Most see that the DNR says they can kill 6 and they think that's ok. Despite seeing lower numbers where they hunt the still believe what the DNR says. The lack of deer on their property they blame on other things. They say things like "the neighbor put in a new corn feeder all the deer must be over there". The guy down the road lease that property and put in a food plot so he's got all the deer. The farmer 2 miles down the road got crop damage permits. A new guy started hunting out there this year and ran all the deer off. Every one of these things I just stated I have physically herald from other hunters. I often ask strangers and Walmart or Gander mountain or Dicks about the deer population. They don't understand the big picture. Some of them are starting to understand. Occasionally one of them will say that there's no reason we need six tags. But what they don't understand is only like 3% of hunters shoot three or more. The DNR could move the permits to two statewide and we wouldn't save that many deer.

So it's not the fact that they're not conservation minded. I believe many would be if I could understand the big picture. But as a collective it is pretty much impossible for all of us to understand the big picture and self manage our own deer population. This is why we pay things like license fees and tags and Pitman Robertson tax. So organizations that we trust and manage our deer population. The problem is they used ourselves against us. They stabbed this in the back to help special interest and big business. And lied to us to make it happen.

 

[MK111]

I agree that is a very sad sight to witness.

I have a question for you. Which is more scary to see, the guy buying shells the night before gun season of the guy buying a couple of arrows or bolts and a 3 pack of whatever the cheapest broadhead is on the rack?

If we accept that the group here on TOO is in the upper percentile of all hunters in education and skill set as compared to the hunting public, and I do think that is true, then I want to outlaw bowhunting totally. If the group here reports so many personal accounts every year of hit and lost deer with a bow and not one account with a gun this year or last year that I can remember, just imagine what the hunting public is doing in the woods with their bows. Take this same model and plug in the reported archery harvest and well....you know.

I have read Deer & Deer Hunting magazine for 20 odd years. In the past there has been several important studies done on deer hunting and deer lost after being shot.

Gun hunting deer lost 50% plus-minus couple points.
Bow hunting deer lost 50% plus-minus couple points.

So if we harvest 200,000 deer per year then another 200,00 are considered shot. Of course all of those lost don't die from the injury. I don't remember what the percentage was figured to have died.

 

[finelyshedded]

I see it as, It's the reason when a child asks for some candy the parent doesn't give them the whole bag and just a piece or two. The ODNR is the "parent" and our deer bag is not empty but damn close!

Yes, we as hunters are the trigger pullers but a large portion need regulated with a parent type watchful eye.

I heard last week one POS poacher was caught near Clarksville Ohio with 4 illegal deer and after a visit to his residence its believed he might have killed nearly 60 this year. If this is true.....I hope they burn his fuggin ass and make an example of him. Sad, I bet the insurance companies and FB love hearing these stories!

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

This is why we pay things like license fees and tags and Pitman Robertson tax. So organizations that we trust and manage our deer population. The problem is they used ourselves against us. They stabbed this in the back to help special interest and big business. And lied to us to make it happen.

Speaking of paying for things...Rep. Bob Latta in the US House today:

In a House of Representatives floor speech, Latta said the bill would be good for both the sporting and conservation communities. He noted that hunters and anglers spent over $90 billion nationwide in 2011.

“In my home state of Ohio, sportsmen and sportswomen spent $2.85 billion on hunting and fishing,” said Latta. That is more than the revenues for corn, the state's top-grossing agriculture commodity that year. “

 

[hickslawns]

You guys speaking of what your local taxidermists are saying opened my eyes. Most of my local hunting buddies killed bucks this year. TOO put down an amazing amount as well. My little view out the window must be skewed.

 

[Big_Holla]

We are conservationist. All of us. But we don't do it. Fees and taxes that we're charged to hunt goes to organizations like the DNR to handle that for us. We foot the bill, they handle the conservation.

We here and our line of thinking about personal responsibility is the minority. But the lack of most hunters being conservation minded isn't the real problem. The reason we think that way is we're informed and understand the big picture. Most don't. I think if they did they too would be more conservation minded. Most see that the DNR says they can kill 6 and they think that's ok..

I agree and I see that on properties all around ours, including other family members. Even when you remind them the reasons they haven't seen many, if at all, they still have that tag burning a hole in their pocket and think if the DNR sold it to them then they should be obliged to fill it.

 

[MandRroofing]

That's like saying people are wrong for going the speed limit. There is a reason we have a DNR. If the hunting population as a whole was capable of managing the herd on a state level themselves we wouldn't need a department of wildlife or hunting laws. As it stands they aren't capable of having that self policing or oversight. Never have been. So it shouldn't be expected of them now or in the future. We have a DOW for a reason who once upon a time everyone trusted to keep their interest in mind, the problem is, those people have been sold a hill of beans and backstabbed for special interest by the very people they trusted.

While I agree that we as hunters must try to do our part now that this has happened. We as hunters can in no way be blamed for this mismanagement. It was never our job it was the job of the DNR. Hunters were only doing what they were told and blindly trusted it would work out for them. This trust was built on lies. Some choose to see it as "they told is they wanted to lower the numbers" however they never said how much or what the end goal was". They hid their true agenda. That's the same as a lie. If they would have told the hunters of this state 5 years ago. "We want to lower the number to the lowest they've been in 12 years by 2013 and then some more after that" they would have likely had huge or issues. They knew that and kept the mouth shut only being vague so we went along. That's a lie no matter how anyone slices it.

I do see your point but I did say it's both of our responsibilities both Ohio and hunters. Ohio DNR has set the speed limit around a 100mph per hour in a school zone doesn't mean we should go that speed limit just because it's set in place? We can't complain about the deer population if we ourselves are killing four and five deer? Are we doing our part? I've shot 2 Ohio deer this year. And wouldn't buy another tag, I could have but didn't. I'm not saying you're over killing, I'm not over killing and probably most guys on here aren't over killing but I'm hearing a lot of complaining all over and I know a lot of these guys are over killing but they still complain? It's hypocritical for most of these guys

 

[Milo]

I do see your point but I did say it's both of our responsibilities both Ohio and hunters. Ohio DNR has set the speed limit around a 100mpr per hour in a school zone doesn't mean we should go that speed limit just because it's set in place? We can't complain about the deer population if we ourselves are killing four and five deer? Are we doing our part? I've shot 2 Ohio deer this year. And wouldn't buy another tag, I could have but didn't

less than 2% of deer hunters kill more than 2 deer generally so its a mute point.

 

[MandRroofing]

less than 2% of deer hunters kill more than 2 deer generally so its a mute point.

Good point , but I do know quite a few guys that are in that 2 percent bracket then. I better go get a lottery ticket start playing the lottery. I'm basically saying is there's a lot of complaining, all we can do is do our part because there's nothing we can do about what the OH DNR Does or what other people do, but this is a good place to vent:-D

 

[Jackalope]

I do see your point but I did say it's both of our responsibilities both Ohio and hunters. Ohio DNR has set the speed limit around a 100mpr per hour in a school zone doesn't mean we should go that speed limit just because it's set in place? We can't complain about the deer population if we ourselves are killing four and five deer? Are we doing our part? I've shot 2 Ohio deer this year. And wouldn't buy another tag, I could have but didn't

I understand what you're saying and I agree. I also think it would be cool if unicorns were real. They're not, and never will be. Nor will we ever get every hunter to see the problem on the scale required to understand what we agree on and do the right thing. Until we as hunters are fully capable of managing our own deer herd where the DNR, laws, limits, licenses and tags are not needed anymore, it's fantasy to think that will fix anything.

 

[MandRroofing]

I understand what you're saying and I agree. I also think it would be cool if unicorns were real. They're not, and never will be. Nor will we ever get every hunter to see the problem on the scale required to understand what we agree on and do the right thing. Until we as hunters are fully capable of managing our own deer herd where the DNR, laws, limits, licenses and tags are not needed anymore, it's fantasy to think that will fix anything.

Again...I said its two sided.I aggree with you on Ohio's end and its " regulations" are way off. All I'm saying it takes two to tango. And I agree with you that unicorns are not real but nobodies proven Bigfoot wrong yet lol

 

[Milo]

Good point , but I do know quite a few guys that are in that 2 percent bracket then. I better go get a lottery ticket start playing the lottery. I'm basically saying is there's a lot of complaining, all we can do is do our part because there's nothing we can do about what the OH DNR Does or what other people do, but this is a good place to vent:-D

I agree with you but on average we are killing less than 1 deer per hunter. its had to manage fractions when hunting is a 1 or 0 outcome. I'm a 2% also...ODNR is supposed to be the oversight that harnesses all users to produce an outcome. they have failed at that Imho

 

[MandRroofing]

I agree with all of you that Ohio DNR has dropped the ball big time, I myself have seen much much less deer activity over the last several years. One of the things that I'm afraid of is the black market of deer hunting the guys that don't check in there deer and theres a lot of that going on I mean a lot! I guess you could throw that back at a DNR as well because they're not protecting the herd with there officer's , again due to money and lack thereof. That's the kind of point that I'm trying to make about hunters themselves there's a lot of hill jacks out there, if its brown its down no matter what the quantity. I don't believe there's anything to be done though from either side call me hopeless but we can't control what everybody else does. And I guess I should have said in the beginning in my own opinion...