Time to ask the tough questions.

[brock ratcliff]

Thanks for the link Ric! Steve Gray is a good one...

 

[yotehunter]

I wouldn't rule out some of the bigger name "Brands" in the industry either, ie Cabelas, Bass Pro, Realtree, Mossy Oak, Trial camera companies, mineral companies, food plot companies, bow companies, as well as tv sponsored shows. There's a lot of video documentation in the outdoor world and its failing "attempt" to lure new hunters into the sport when in reality it makes it very hard bc there's less game to seek. If all else fails just give Uncle Ted a call! :smiley_crocodile:[/QUOTE
I would have too say a lot the TV publicity has not been for the best in our hunting heritage and tradition. I would be interested in some of those answers. And how many of those free range deer are truly free range.

 

[CritterGitterToo]

This move isn't going to make me many friends in high places. But those of you who know me well know that I'm not afraid to ask uncomfortable questions and call BS if they give me a PR answer.

Each organizations response and efforts will be graded A-F. I'll send out a site wide newsletter after the results are compiled. They'll also be posted here in their individual threads as well as on the front page. I will also be purchasing advertising space on other hunting related sites to further disseminate the results.

One month later, how is the progress coming on this.

 

[Jackalope]

One month later, how is the progress coming on this.

Work has had me slammed with a large customer go live and hasn't left much time for family life. I've got to get a website to get off the ground for TripleA88 too. I should have some cycles free in the next couple weeks to work on this though.

 

[CritterGitterToo]

Work has had me slammed with a large customer go live and hasn't left much time for family life. I've got to get a website to get off the ground for TripleA88 too. I should have some cycles free in the next couple weeks to work on this though.

Aw, no worries Joe. I know you got a lot of irons in the fire.

 

[Lundy]

To my knowledge not a single organization has taken on a state farm bureau head on. They have the run of the place and have infiltrated DNRs to achieve their agenda across many states in the Midwest. Their impact on our sport is undeniable, blatant, and real. The real enemy is not outside the gates. It's amongst us. And doing quite well.

A noble effort.

However you will need to find a way to leverage dollars, (economic impact) spent by hunters against the fact that the members of the farm bureau have a larger stake and say in the management for a pretty simple reason. They OWN the majority of the land that hunters use to hunt the deer. That fact provides them, and rightfully so, to a bigger stick in the game.

Now compound that by the fact that there is no unified voice from hunters. The vocal minority will have great difficulty even being heard, muss less taken seriously when the vast majority of hunters either don't care or don't care enough to ever voice their concerns.

The fact remains that the ODNR, the insurance companies, or the Farm Bureau did not kill the deer to reduce the populations from its high point a few years ago, hunters did, some right here participated fully.

Then you will have the other segment of fully engaged hunters that believe strongly in QDM that will voice quality over quantity and may be happy with the reduced populations.

Good luck in your efforts.

 

[Jackalope]

A noble effort.

However you will need to find a way to leverage dollars, (economic impact) spent by hunters against the fact that the members of the farm bureau have a larger stake and say in the management for a pretty simple reason. They OWN the majority of the land that hunters use to hunt the deer. That fact provides them, and rightfully so, to a bigger stick in the game.

Now compound that by the fact that there is no unified voice from hunters. The vocal minority will have great difficulty even being heard, muss less taken seriously when the vast majority of hunters either don't care or don't care enough to ever voice their concerns.

The fact remains that the ODNR, the insurance companies, or the Farm Bureau did not kill the deer to reduce the populations from its high point a few years ago, hunters did, some right here participated fully.

Then you will have the other segment of fully engaged hunters that believe strongly in QDM that will voice quality over quantity and may be happy with the reduced populations.

Good luck in your efforts.

You're right. Hunters did it. However, Hunters were misled and basically lied to in order to achieve a population goal detrimental to their interest by a DNR owned and operated by politicians beheld to lobbyist. They used us against us by lying to us, or at a minimum being coy and minimizing their true intentions.

The farm bureau doesn't care about deer because farmers are concerned about too many deer. The farmer survey stated they liked having deer around and only wanted to see a slight decrease. Not a massive slaughter. The crop damage permit numbers applied for over the years follow that logic. If I remember correctly the crop damage permit applications were in decline before the DNR decided to kill off the population. I don't buy the "the poor farmers farmers wanted it" when the data doesn't support it. But they so make an easy scape goat for an agenda. It's plain and simple insurance money that's the biggest driving factor and nationwide is a huge supporter of FB.

The point of this really isn't to fix it. What's done is done; and as I've said all along the DNR will accomplish their goal. And they did accomplish their goal before people realized what was going on. But hunters are waking up. Reading the DNRs Facebook page recently when they talked about deer goes to show that. It's not good. The last time they posted a video about the deer population I read through 100 comments in a row before finding a single positive one. Those guys were roasting their butt. The point of this is to make sure those responsible can no longer lead their campaign of deceit, and for the hunting public to know exactly who to point the finger at.

The reason for engaging all of these orgs is to make them confront the issue by exposing that they haven't been. Which won't be easy for them as they have lots of friends at the DNR. But what worries them more than losing a friend at the DNR is losing members or potential members and bad PR. You say you're for hunters, about hunters, etc. well what have you done about these bought and paid for DNRs which is the biggest issue hunters face today which is damaging their sport. "Nothing" is not the answer they want to publicize. So hopefully through this, or its fallout, it forces them to challenge their buddies at the DNR and get out ahead of it to get some good PR. There is your voice. It exists today. You just have to make all these for hunters by hunters organizations talk about it. It's east to go after antis and say you're for hunters. But It's harder to go after your buddies at the DNR. The voice is there. The problem is they're not talking about what matters. I plan to put them between a rock and a hard place and make them confront the real issue we face today. Because at the end of the day it's about looking beneficial to members and potential members. Being friends with people at the DNR bodes well for friendships, but it doesn't pay the bills.

It's a lofty plan and pretty out there. But hey, this forum was built on lofty ideas and a desire for change.

 

[Curran]

Then you will have the other segment of fully engaged hunters that believe strongly in QDM that will voice quality over quantity and may be happy with the reduced populations.

I don't think that's necessarily the case. QDM is a management philosophy about overall herd quality. Killing too many deer (bucks or does) does not promote that philosophy.

 

[Jackalope]

I don't think that's necessarily the case. QDM is a management philosophy about overall herd quality. Killing too many deer (bucks or does) does not promote that philosophy.

I agree. However The QDM association has been very helpful in giving advice to Tonk with his mismanagement program. Least that's what he says or points to when questioned about doe reductions. He ignores the fact that it's designed for areas where the deer and hunters can be controlled. But I know last fall when talking to him he pointed out numerous occasions that he's been in contact with them. And if I'm not mistaken they actually recognized him publicly a while back for his doe slaughter program. But I could be mistaken on that last one. However I do remember something that was published by the DNR or QDMA in public about how they've been in cahoots.

Not a bad idea really if you're the QDMA. Get a state to jack up their deer population, hunters then start leasing ground to control their own deer and hunting ground, hunters then reach out to the QDMA for advice. In a state where the DNR manages a stellar deer program full of good bucks the QDMA association is of little need to hunters.

 

[hickslawns]

QDMA is a good thing in my opinion. Even so, some of the best ideas our country has come up with evolve over time. What might have once been a necessity (reducing numbers or even up the ratios) is going to be an ever changing necessity. Necessary to shoot more does, AND at times necessary to leave the does alone. I think it is about the numbers. Why are more trophy bucks killed in SE Ohio vs NW Ohio? SE Ohio has more deer. The more deer you have the greater the opportunity to tag a trophy. Maybe my thinking is off. I just don't know that I believe everything I read.

 

[Lundy]

. But hunters are waking up. Reading the DNRs Facebook page recently when they talked about deer goes to show that. It's not good. The last time they posted a video about the deer population I read through 100 comments in a row before finding a single positive one.

While it is good to see that they are getting that feedback. I few hundred disgruntled hunters out of 500,000 making comments on a Facebook page will not have any impact at all. If that was 10,000 or 100,000 comments it would have an impact.

In fact the ODNR could very reasonably assume that the hunters as a whole are fine with the herd reduction if the only opposition is a few hundred people voicing their concerns. You can not enact anything anywhere without some small percentage not liking it.

You need to find a way to find out what the general consensus is of the majority of deer hunters and a way to make that opinion heard.

Do the majority of deer hunters believe as you do?

 

[Jackalope]

That's true bud. But It's more than a few hundred Lundy. I said I had to read the first hundred before getting to a single positive response. So 1/100 was positive. Talk to people numbers are down drastically all over the state and people are mad. They're figuring out they were lied to. I've never met those commenters before, people are waking up. MRex himself called about a hundred of his buddies and asked about deer numbers. They all said the same thing. Numbers are down bad. And this was two seasons ago.

You're right. The voice needs organized. And I know there are some big names and institutions starting to work on the issue of bought and paid for DNRs; not just in ohio, but all over. But the grass roots movement is also growing fine on its own. This storm will grow at it's own pace. 6 years ago it was just Brock and I saying we're heading down a bad road after seeing declines in the areas we hunt. We were called crazy, shitty hunters, hunters with a personal issue with the DNR, an laughed at. You name it we were told it. My how things have changed. The storm has been brewing. The day will come. Its not yet a massive flood, but it's getting there. The DNR is very good about downplaying the number of complaints. Why do you think they have town halls where they pull people aside vs doing it in a meeting setting. Why don't they publish the results of how many people asked a certain question on the papers that get filled out? It's easy to pretend like you're not getting calls or emails when you control the PR. Like I said. It's not a raging flood yet but the waters rising and it's far more than the two drops of rain it started with years ago. Next season will be no different. Even more people will realize they've been screwed and look to point a finger. And it looks like they know exactly who to blame from the reading I've done. And at the end of the day that's what matters to me. Laying blame where it's due. The word is getting out, people are waking up, you can't force it any faster than that. You can only make sure those hunters know who to blame and that they tell their buddies. Funny how Mr Tonk didn't do much post season PR this year an left most of it up to Zehringer. Maybe someone's a little tired of his name at the top of the page.