Deer Management Stakeholder Organization.

[giles]

Maybe I'm alone here but I think the DNR does a pretty good job overall. I believe they have come close to thier "population goals" and we still have deer to shoot. It also looks like they've reduced bag limits and done away with the early muzzleloader season and eliminated some doe only tags in an attempt to slow down the killing a little. I'm hoping through these meetings they decide or are convinced that we need just as many or more deer than we currently have and then work towards that.

I also like how they did away with zones and started going County by county. It's not a perfect system but it seems better.

Sorry if some of you don't see quite as many deer as you think you should but I don't consider our DNR the enemy at all.

DNR is a necessary evil. They did exactly what they said they were going to do, from building a population to decreasing it. Period, end of story.

From that stand point, yes, they did an excellent job!

Here's where I see the problem. Money is involved and everyone has a voice except those contributing the money.

The most important tool doesn't have a say so. So keep using that crescent wrench as a hammer...

 

[Jackalope]

Maybe I'm alone here but I think the DNR does a pretty good job overall. I believe they have come close to thier "population goals" and we still have deer to shoot. It also looks like they've reduced bag limits and done away with the early muzzleloader season and eliminated some doe only tags in an attempt to slow down the killing a little. I'm hoping through these meetings they decide or are convinced that we need just as many or more deer than we currently have and then work towards that.

I also like how they did away with zones and started going County by county. It's not a perfect system but it seems better.

Sorry if some of you don't see quite as many deer as you think you should but I don't consider our DNR the enemy at all.

Understandable position if one was to look at it today without knowing the full history. For those that have followed the progression of the struggle we've undertaken since 2008 against the decimation of our deer population and the dnr, they probably understand a little more about the history of the things you give the DNR credit for and how those actually came to be. This is yet another thing that years from now someone will point to and say the DNR is trying to do a good job, and others are simply laying unfair blame. Those who've been deeply involved with the issue understand why most of those things, to include this recent move, came about. I can assure you none of it was due to sportsmen sitting idly by while the DNR ransacked ohio's deer population. There's been many a year's of how did Tonkovich put it years ago "torches and pitchfork Saber rattling". While I can't point you to a pretty certificate with our name on it from some fancy dinner where we made posh with the heads of the DNR to elicit policy change. I can tell you that shaping public opinion is a very powerful force. And when someone can publicly announce their intent to form an Ohio whitetail alliance to unify sportsmen and in less than a month later you have the DNR creating a method by which to water down those voices with beaurocratic tail chasing, you can pretty much guarantee you struck a nerve somewhere they had to get out ahead of. Will this be a good thing. Sure. I mean it adds a bunch of red tape but it is for sure a step in a good direction. And a hell of a lot better than in 2008 when Tonk was spouting bogus population numbers as the primary reason for wanting to lower the population to any journalist that would listen with absolutely zero science to back it up. How far it has came since then.

 

[xbowguy]

Joe is right. I lost all faith in their ways when they admitted there is no sure way to count deer. I mean, your going to tell us how many need killed when you don't know how many there are? It does not take a genius to figure out that equation. JMO but to offer X amount of tags to sportsmen is where it starts to go south. It's hard to think killing them is wrong if it is legal. (Hope that makes sense here).

 

[bowhunter1023]

Don't let this move fool you, the DNR does not (and likely never will) have the best interest of the hunter as their priority. Hell, I doubt it makes their Top 5 priorities, but pretending they do will...

 

[giles]

So now what? Give the impression that you guys are giving up? Or get bigger? You wanted a seat at the table...the table has just been created. Get you a seat.

 

[Joel]

Joe you actually believe they caught wind of your idea to start an organization supporting deer hunters and that's why they implemented this program? I doubt they care honestly. Maybe if you had already established it and had 10,000 members but at this point it's just an idea. I can't picture them having an emergency meeting and pulling this together just because some guy on a forum said he might start a new group. I'd have to say that's all a coincidence.

Maybe I just drank the koolaid but I don't think so.

I do agree that they allowed (or encouraged) too many deer to be killed. That's hard to debate. BUT, it appears they are trying to stabilize the population or even let it rebound a little. Time will tell I guess. In the meantime I plan on keeping an open mind on both sides of this.

 

[hickslawns]

And there is nothing wrong with this Joel. If everyone on TOO just followed blindly, it would be boring. Our best ideas in society come from great people pitching ideas from different view points and discussing them. I am keeping an open mind as well. I'm undecided as to true intentions of DNR but I'll sit back and watch.

 

[Buckmaster]

Joe you actually believe they caught wind of your idea to start an organization supporting deer hunters and that's why they implemented this program?

I'm with Brock on this one. Mike did chime in about a month and a half ago with a one liner, then disappeared. Now look what has been created. I hope it works out.

 

[xbowguy]

Many Great Ideas started out as a pipe-dream.....

 

[Jackalope]

Joe you actually believe they caught wind of your idea to start an organization supporting deer hunters and that's why they implemented this program? I doubt they care honestly. Maybe if you had already established it and had 10,000 members but at this point it's just an idea. I can't picture them having an emergency meeting and pulling this together just because some guy on a forum said he might start a new group. I'd have to say that's all a coincidence.

Maybe I just drank the koolaid but I don't think so.

I do agree that they allowed (or encouraged) too many deer to be killed. That's hard to debate. BUT, it appears they are trying to stabilize the population or even let it rebound a little. Time will tell I guess. In the meantime I plan on keeping an open mind on both sides of this.

I don't think it's that direct no. But keep in mind also the last time we publically anounced such an idea some 4 years ago an insurance entity who shall remain unnamed threatened to sue our ass off if we did. So obviously the idea strikes a nerve in the network. I do think our recent endeavour may have forced their hand to release it earlier than they intended however.

Here is what i can tell you, we are the only group that I've seen over the past 8 years who have been a constant thorn in the DNRs side over their deer reduction agenda. When we started down this pathway there were only a few people screaming and pointing the finger that the DNR was being influenced by insurance lobbyist and farm unions. Most called us crazy and sang the praises of the DNR. Take a gander at the ODNRs Facebook page today and see public opinion now. Over the past 5 years TOO has seen over 670,000 unique visitors to the site from Ohio and over 10.9 million page views. While I can't draw you a flow chart of how these things came about over the years I can assure you they weren't because the DNR did it out of the kindness of their heart. They were very well content hiding their intentions, data, and plans in the beginning. It is afterall what allowed them into tricking a state full of hunters to decimate their own population. What I do know is positive change does not come about without action and movement, and we are the only body that I have seen both from over the past 8 years.

 

[Jackalope]

Joe you actually believe they caught wind of your idea to start an organization supporting deer hunters and that's why they implemented this program? I doubt they care honestly. Maybe if you had already established it and had 10,000 members but at this point it's just an idea. I can't picture them having an emergency meeting and pulling this together just because some guy on a forum said he might start a new group. I'd have to say that's all a coincidence.

Maybe I just drank the koolaid but I don't think so.

.

After some conversations today here's what I do know.

The "Social Media" chair at the org will be sat with a person who is a moderator of a competing site that TOO crushs 3x in traffic and 4x participation. Has no experience at creating a social media presence like we have created here from the ground up, outside moderating an already existing site. Has not been involved in the debate over deer numbers outside responding to threads on said site, and then largely in favor of the DNRs actions. Has never compiled data for harvests, deer vehicle accidents, or other data points with regard to the Deer population. And is currently employed in a field that would not lend itself to voicong too sternly of an opposition to either the farm unions or insurance companies.

I know nothing of the man personally and I'm sure he's a swell guy with good friends. From a resume perspective it's pretty obvious they found a person who thinks how they want, and they will support his social outreach to Hunters for him to give the message they want you to hear and believe; VS and individual like jesse or I who not only has the proven experience across the board in every aspect a social media chair would call for to include building such a presence, but just doesnt possess the opinion that fits their agenda.

This tells me all I need to know with regard to exactly what the intent of this new organisation is. And it is not to seat the voice of "increase the population" at the table.

Some may take this as being bitter it wasn't Jesse or I. I can assure you it's not. Not in the least. I still think its a big do nothing machine they've created. We're going to keep doing what we do. Grassroots that has turned into a forrest of public presence and building a social media powerhouse that keeps growing year after year, our message will persist. It is obvious now more than ever it can not be ignored, seat or no seat. We'll evaluate how this new stake holders org impacts the landscape, plan an avenue of approach, and maybe next time not show our hand a little too early.

 

[cspot]

If I remember correctly PA did something a while back like this and I believe it was a joke as well.

 

[giles]

This SUCKS! Let's get his email and flood it with our thoughts. I mean, that is his job now is to sift through it all.

 

[Jackalope]

This SUCKS! Let's get his email and flood it with our thoughts. I mean, that is his job now is to sift through it all.

Patience my friend. Let them get all this off the ground and we'll go on the issues with sustenance. Through a unified channel.

 

[giles]

Patience my friend. Let them get all this off the ground and we'll go on the issues with sustenance. Through a unified channel.

What mostly gets my goat on all this is that the DNR is hand picking. I guess a vote would be a bit much to ask for...but still. I guess I just feel helpless in this situation.

 

[Jackalope]

What mostly gets my goat on all this is that the DNR is hand picking. I guess a vote would be a bit much to ask for...but still. I guess I just feel helpless in this situation.

Oh no the DNR didn't pick. Remember they're totally hands off in this. It's a we the people effort. Well... People who think like they want anyway.

Don't feel helpless bud. It's just yet another twist in a sorted 8 year endeavour. If you could look back to those days you'd know this far far better than it was back then when it was one guy named Tonkovich who would say whatever he could to mislead the masses without a single fact to back it up.

 

[giles]

Insert my hand jacking icon...

 

[Bigslam51]

The Facebook page "Ohio whitetail deer" has a good post going on right now about the proposed regs.

 

[bawana]

I'm that guy!
I'm Brent Laner from East Central Ohio, New Phila to be exact. I've used the Bawana handle for 17 years now. A little about me, I'm 63 years old, Been hunting since I was 10, I harvested my first Ohio deer in 1977 (back when you had to apply for a doe permit). I spent 4 years at Ohio State in Agriculture, trying to get into vet school. Didn't make it but spent my next 25 years in the Highway Patrol, retiring in October of 2002. 2003 I started working as a field reporter for our local Farm Service Agency office. In 2007 I became certified to appraise and adjust crops for federal crop insurance. I have belonged to the Dumbassville web site since 2002. I have been a moderator since 2009.
To answer a few of Joe's questions, This position is not about creating a social media presence, it's going to be a group that will make recommendations for the directions our deer management should take over the next ten years. My current employment will not in any way influence my opinions on this group. In my 10 years of crop insurance work I have had less than one claim per year for wildlife damage. What you see in the news release is as much as I know about the group. Looking at the make up of the group I would say that sportsman will be well represented. I see 9-10 groups that will be represented by sportsman: BBBC, BFA, League of Dumbassville, OBA, QDMA, OWC, Ohio Outdoor Writers, WU, Social Media, and the Nature Conservancy and Ohio Conservation Federation possibly.
I plan on updating both the members on this site and the Dumbassville of the meetings and also asking your opinions on the topics we will be discussing. Feel free to PM me and I'll try to be on the site regularly enough to keep up with this thread and anymore that may come up on the topic.

 

["J"]

Thanks for stopping by Brent, helps to get a dialogue going...

I guess my first question is what're your opinions on today's deer herd here in Ohio and do you agree with the bag limits that we currently have?