- 39,068
- 274
Total population doesn't really factor in to ones ability to quickly test for and contain the virus. South Korea was on it quick and aggressive, we let it spread coast to coast before even attempting to start preparing.
2019-nCoV (Coronavirus)
- Thread starter Jackalope
- Start date
Total population doesn't really factor in to ones ability to quickly test for and contain the virus. South Korea was on it quick and aggressive, we let it spread coast to coast before even attempting to start preparing.
Agreed that they were quick to the punch, but the impact of testing a higher % of population is more effective. With a geographically smaller country and a smaller population you get to a great % of total population quicker. I agree they did well but it isnt apples to apples IMO.
- 39,068
- 274
The problem wasn't access to the population. The problem was our CDC setting arbitrary requirements for testing which missed community spread indicators. Then trying to create their own test that turned out to be unreliable. Wasted time. By the time that they allowed testing of the general population it was too late and had spread throughout the country. They never even had a smidgen of a chance at containment due to those blunders. What we're seeing now showing up to hospitals are people who became infected two weeks ago. We are constantly behind the curve. SK on the other hand caught it early, cast a very big net for testing and through contact tracing and testing managed to mostly contain it early.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/coronavirus-testing-us-vs-south-korea.html
I'm going to disagree with a portion of your theory, Joe. Did the slow down in testing and lack of consistency hurt? I have no doubt. As recently as the last 7 days I know 2 people who were tested. Two different larger metropolitan areas of Ohio. One had to make repeated calls to his doctor JUST TO GET TESTED. The other they refused to test until he was adamant about needing to be tested. He also had to repeatedly tell the doctor he JUST returned from Spain. And how did he get back from Spain? Flew from Spain to Denmark. Denmark to Newark NJ. NJ to Cleveland. How many times did he get his temp checked? None. They are randomly checking temps. Globally. That said, I don't think he came down with a temp until a couple days after being home. The other issue? Both have been waiting 5 days for their results. Still no results. I also have a close friend who is a doctor. He has done testing. I can't say much other than he confirmed there is quite a delay for results. Per protocol they are being given: 3 days no fever they are presumed no longer contagious, but still recommending 14 day quarantine. Self enforced.
In a nutshell: Until everyone flying gets temp taken this is going to keep spreading. Until those presenting symptoms are ALL tested, this will keep spreading. Until there is some sort of quarantine enforcement. . .
There is new info about the models they are using to project the spread being inaccurate. Let's hope they are right. Sounds like the Dr Acton models are projecting higher deaths than what the latest models are showing. We could use a break.
In a nutshell: Until everyone flying gets temp taken this is going to keep spreading. Until those presenting symptoms are ALL tested, this will keep spreading. Until there is some sort of quarantine enforcement. . .
There is new info about the models they are using to project the spread being inaccurate. Let's hope they are right. Sounds like the Dr Acton models are projecting higher deaths than what the latest models are showing. We could use a break.
Do we choose high death rates and an implosion of healthcare or an economic death?
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/23/locked-down-europe-asks-how-long-can-we-afford-this-144401
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/23/locked-down-europe-asks-how-long-can-we-afford-this-144401
- 39,068
- 274
I don't think you're actually disagreeing with me at all bud. The massive lack of testing from the start due to unavailability has been a problem. It's hard to get tested because the tests are being rationed. As a result unknown community transmission continues.
My pick is the economy. Let the virus run it's course and let healthcare learn from their lack of preparedness. That's an easier remedy than a total economic collapse. The deaths will be tragic, but the fact that we made it this far into the "empire" without a catastrophe like this, pretty much defied the odds. Time to let nature do what it does and let man control what it can.
Just my opinion. Cuss me if you will.
Just my opinion. Cuss me if you will.
Well would you seek treatment for your family if covoid came to your door
I believe you know the answer to that, Geezer. I didn't say we'd forego treatment. We'd take whatever we could get, even if it was nothing. And chances are, it's coming to my doorstep. There was thought behind my answer even if you disagree with it.
when you boil it all down, that is all that could ever be done, Jesse. yes, our health care system from top to bottom should be, should have been, better prepared for this sort of thing as we know for a fact that is always a matter of "when", not "if". you know what they say about forgetting history. no matter what your take on this, or who's to "blame" for it, we all have to go on living our lives, whatever that means to each of us. I can say for sure that I would not go near a hospital right now unless I trruly thought my life depended on professional medical care. I have never gotten a flu shot and I have no intention of getting one anytime soon. I get sick less than any other person I know because social distancing really is a way of life for me. at least I have a better idea why I'm a weirdo now. or some justification for my mildly anti-social behavior, anyway.
3/27/2020 9:00 am by Wildlife
Something must be looming in the air...
DOJ seeks new emergency powers amid coronavirus pandemic
One of the requests to Congress would allow the department to petition a judge to indefinitely detain someone during an emergency.
03/21/2020 01:01 PM EDT
The Justice Department has quietly asked Congress for the ability to ask chief judges to detain people indefinitely without trial during emergencies — part of a push for new powers that comes as the novel coronavirus spreads throughout the United States.
Documents reviewed by POLITICO detail the department’s requests to lawmakers on a host of topics, including the statute of limitations, asylum and the way court hearings are conducted. POLITICO also reviewed and previously reported on documents seeking the authority to extend deadlines on merger reviews and prosecutions.
A Justice Department spokesperson declined to comment on the documents.
The move has tapped into a broader fear among civil liberties advocates and Donald Trump’s critics — that the president will use a moment of crisis to push for controversial policy changes. Already, he has cited the pandemic as a reason for heightening border restrictions and restricting asylum claims. He has also pushed for further tax cuts as the economy withers, arguing it would soften the financial blow to Americans. And even without policy changes, Trump has vast emergency powers that he could deploy right now to try to slow the coronavirus outbreak.
The DOJ requests — which are unlikely to make it through a Democratic-led House — span several stages of the legal process, from initial arrest to how cases are processed and investigated.
The Justice Department seal. | Mark Wilson/Getty Images
In one of the documents, the department proposed that Congress grant the attorney general power to ask the chief judge of any district court to pause court proceedings “whenever the district court is fully or partially closed by virtue of any natural disaster, civil disobedience, or other emergency situation.”
The proposal would also grant those top judges broad authority to pause court proceedings during emergencies. It would apply to “any statutes or rules of procedure otherwise affecting pre-arrest, post-arrest, pre-trial, trial, and post-trial procedures in criminal and juvenile proceedings and all civil process and proceedings,” according to draft legislative language the department shared with Congress. In making the case for the change, the DOJ wrote that individual judges can currently pause proceedings during emergencies but that their proposal would make sure all judges in any particular district could handle emergencies “in a consistent manner.”
The request raised eyebrows because of its potential implications for habeas corpus — the constitutional right to appear before a judge after arrest and seek release.
“Not only would it be a violation of that, but it says ‘affecting pre-arrest,’” said Norman L. Reimer, executive director of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. “So that means you could be arrested and never brought before a judge until they decide that the emergency or the civil disobedience is over. I find it absolutely terrifying. Especially in a time of emergency, we should be very careful about granting new powers to the government.”
Reimer said the possibility of chief judges suspending all court rules during an emergency without a clear end in sight was deeply disturbing.
“That is something that should not happen in a democracy,” he said.
The department also asked Congress to pause the statute of limitations for criminal investigations and civil proceedings during national emergencies, “and for one year following the end of the national emergency,” according to the draft legislative text.
Trump recently declared the coronavirus crisis a national emergency.
Another controversial request: The department is looking to change the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure in some cases to expand the use of videoconference hearings and to let some of those hearings happen without defendants’ consent, according to the draft legislative text.
“Video teleconferencing may be used to conduct an appearance under this rule,” read a draft of potential new language for Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 5(f), crossing out the phrase “if the defendant consents.”
“Video teleconferencing may be used to arraign a defendant,” read draft text of rule 10(c), again striking out the phrase “if the defendant consents.”
Source: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/doj-coronavirus-emergency-powers-140023
Other sources available:
Something must be looming in the air...
DOJ seeks new emergency powers amid coronavirus pandemic
One of the requests to Congress would allow the department to petition a judge to indefinitely detain someone during an emergency.
03/21/2020 01:01 PM EDT
The Justice Department has quietly asked Congress for the ability to ask chief judges to detain people indefinitely without trial during emergencies — part of a push for new powers that comes as the novel coronavirus spreads throughout the United States.
Documents reviewed by POLITICO detail the department’s requests to lawmakers on a host of topics, including the statute of limitations, asylum and the way court hearings are conducted. POLITICO also reviewed and previously reported on documents seeking the authority to extend deadlines on merger reviews and prosecutions.
A Justice Department spokesperson declined to comment on the documents.
The move has tapped into a broader fear among civil liberties advocates and Donald Trump’s critics — that the president will use a moment of crisis to push for controversial policy changes. Already, he has cited the pandemic as a reason for heightening border restrictions and restricting asylum claims. He has also pushed for further tax cuts as the economy withers, arguing it would soften the financial blow to Americans. And even without policy changes, Trump has vast emergency powers that he could deploy right now to try to slow the coronavirus outbreak.
The DOJ requests — which are unlikely to make it through a Democratic-led House — span several stages of the legal process, from initial arrest to how cases are processed and investigated.
The Justice Department seal. | Mark Wilson/Getty Images
In one of the documents, the department proposed that Congress grant the attorney general power to ask the chief judge of any district court to pause court proceedings “whenever the district court is fully or partially closed by virtue of any natural disaster, civil disobedience, or other emergency situation.”
The proposal would also grant those top judges broad authority to pause court proceedings during emergencies. It would apply to “any statutes or rules of procedure otherwise affecting pre-arrest, post-arrest, pre-trial, trial, and post-trial procedures in criminal and juvenile proceedings and all civil process and proceedings,” according to draft legislative language the department shared with Congress. In making the case for the change, the DOJ wrote that individual judges can currently pause proceedings during emergencies but that their proposal would make sure all judges in any particular district could handle emergencies “in a consistent manner.”
The request raised eyebrows because of its potential implications for habeas corpus — the constitutional right to appear before a judge after arrest and seek release.
“Not only would it be a violation of that, but it says ‘affecting pre-arrest,’” said Norman L. Reimer, executive director of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. “So that means you could be arrested and never brought before a judge until they decide that the emergency or the civil disobedience is over. I find it absolutely terrifying. Especially in a time of emergency, we should be very careful about granting new powers to the government.”
Reimer said the possibility of chief judges suspending all court rules during an emergency without a clear end in sight was deeply disturbing.
“That is something that should not happen in a democracy,” he said.
The department also asked Congress to pause the statute of limitations for criminal investigations and civil proceedings during national emergencies, “and for one year following the end of the national emergency,” according to the draft legislative text.
Trump recently declared the coronavirus crisis a national emergency.
Another controversial request: The department is looking to change the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure in some cases to expand the use of videoconference hearings and to let some of those hearings happen without defendants’ consent, according to the draft legislative text.
“Video teleconferencing may be used to conduct an appearance under this rule,” read a draft of potential new language for Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 5(f), crossing out the phrase “if the defendant consents.”
“Video teleconferencing may be used to arraign a defendant,” read draft text of rule 10(c), again striking out the phrase “if the defendant consents.”
Source: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/21/doj-coronavirus-emergency-powers-140023
Other sources available:
@Wildlife
Debunked yesterday Denny
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ba...gency-powers-amid-coronavirus-crisis-nonsense
Debunked yesterday Denny
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ba...gency-powers-amid-coronavirus-crisis-nonsense
Yup!Appreciate it, thanks!
Here’s a real treat though!
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ba...gency-powers-amid-coronavirus-crisis-nonsense
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: MEDIA CONTACTS:March 26, 2020 Dan Tierney: 614-644-0957
Breann Almos: 614-799-6480
Personal Protective Equipment Needed;
New COVID-19 Data Dashboard Unveiled
(COLUMBUS, Ohio)— Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, Lt. Governor Jon Husted, and Dr. Amy Acton, MD, MPH, today continued to remind Ohioans of the oncoming shortage of personal protective equipment (PPE) such as masks, goggles, gloves, gowns and face shields for healthcare workers and first responders.
Taking care of a patient who is in intensive care for a 24-hour shift requires:
- 36 pairs of gloves
- 14 gowns
- 3 pairs of goggles
- 13 N-95 face masks.
Staff will receive these emails and coordinate how these resources can best be used to benefit all Ohioans.
NEW DATA DASHBOARD:
An expanded COVID-19 data dashboard has been designed by the InnovateOhio Platform and is now available online.
The dashboard displays the most recent preliminary data reported to the Ohio Department of Health (ODH) about COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in Ohio by selected demographics and county of residence.
There are 867 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Ohio and 15 deaths. A total of 223 people have been hospitalized, including 91 admissions to intensive care units.
In-depth data on the new dashboard can be accessed by visiting coronavirus.ohio.gov.
Video of today's full update, including versions with foreign language closed captioning, can be viewed on the Ohio Channel's YouTube page.
For more information on Ohio's response to COVID-19, visit coronavirus.ohio.gov or call 1-833-4-ASK-ODH.
twireman
Senior Member
Today and the next two weeks I’m at a huge warehouse that is accepting PPE donation... we quarantine them first then inventory and box by size and piece of equipment. Amazing the amount of donations....