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Coyotes & Bobcats.... What's the DNR thinking?

Bowhunter57

Senior Member
3,072
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83
Allen County
#1
As hunters we all know that the coyotes are killing the fawns in the spring, then there aren't any deer in the fall. After enough seasons of this the population is nearly non-existent. I won't even get into the road kill estimates, poaching and depredation permits. I haven't shot a doe in my section since '09 and continue to see the population decline.
I have a neighbor to the east of me that had a trail camera by a coyote den. (I heard about this after the fact.) The photos show 7 fawns being brought in to feed the pups. Nutz!

Now, I'm talking with coyote hunting buddies from S.W. Ohio that are telling me their trail cameras are showing more and more bobcats....and haven't seen any turkeys in over 2 years. 20 years ago, I used to travel to southeastern Ohio to hunt turkeys, because there weren't any around here, in northwestern Ohio.

Deer and Turkey with the highest tag costs, are the "cash crop" of the DNR. How are they going to explain this natural resource loss? Look how long it took to get a decent population in the northern counties to allow hunting....and for what? To watch it get literally eaten alive?

These two predators are like roaches and will never be controlled. Allowing them to live within our borders is pure insanity.
There are game animals that us hunters don't get to hunt/eat any more, because the coyotes and bobcats are eating them. It takes a lot of meat to feed a 40# coyote and a 25# bobcat.

Your thoughts?

Thank you, Bowhunter57
 

Carpn

*Supporting Member*
2,235
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Wooster
#2
I am not disputing that coyotes kill fawns .

But I consider the ol trail camera on a coyote den dragging X number of fawns in a urban legend story . Similar to the Volkswagen sized catfish the diver saw below the dam.

If you find a coyote den hang a snare , not a camera . And who'd let coyotes have a unmolested den with pups in the first place . Eliminate them .
 

hickslawns

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
32,356
3,217
163
NW Ohio
#4
My cousin is seeing more turkeys in Lawrence County than he has ever seen. I am seeing more deer right now than I have ever seen in the spring. Kill the coyotes whenever we can. Be stewards of the land. Some of these things are out of our control. We can only be conservationists for our own cause.
 

jagermeister

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Supporting Member
14,940
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Ohio
#5
It seems like everyone has a "my buddy's buddy had a trail cam over a den" type of story. Like carpn, I don't put any stock into these stories. Yes, coyotes kill some fawns. But IMO not at the rate that some like to believe. Think about this... When a deer is hit by a car, and we find the scavenged carcass near a roadway... It's obviously being munched on by coyotes and other critters... These carcasses don't usually get COMPLETELY consumed, right? The skeletal remains and even sometimes the hide stay there for months or even years. So, if coyotes are killing all of these deer... where are the rampant piles of dead deer carcasses across the landscape??? Why aren't turkey hunters finding fawn skeletons all over the woods? When EHD or some other disease strikes, we have no problem finding dead deer in large numbers. Where are the coyote-killed deer carcasses? Do the coyotes decide they need to eat every last bit in order to hide the evidence of their uncontrollable murderous ways??? Nah...

And bobcats, geez.... Do some research. The ODNR wants to trap them. Problem is the power of the anti's is just to strong at this point in time.
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
Site Admin
29,370
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#6
It seems like everyone has a "my buddy's buddy had a trail cam over a den" type of story. Like carpn, I don't put any stock into these stories. Yes, coyotes kill some fawns. But IMO not at the rate that some like to believe. Think about this... When a deer is hit by a car, and we find the scavenged carcass near a roadway... It's obviously being munched on by coyotes and other critters... These carcasses don't usually get COMPLETELY consumed, right? The skeletal remains and even sometimes the hide stay there for months or even years. So, if coyotes are killing all of these deer... where are the rampant piles of dead deer carcasses across the landscape??? Why aren't turkey hunters finding fawn skeletons all over the woods? When EHD or some other disease strikes, we have no problem finding dead deer in large numbers. Where are the coyote-killed deer carcasses? Do the coyotes decide they need to eat every last bit in order to hide the evidence of their uncontrollable murderous ways??? Nah...

And bobcats, geez.... Do some research. The ODNR wants to trap them. Problem is the power of the anti's is just to strong at this point in time.

I think it's only a very small portion of time each year that coyotes attempt to take adult deer. Dead of winter like February type stuff. Theres no doubt however that they play hell on fawns. The natural fawn mortality rate is pretty low. If you're getting does on cam with no fawns, or mature does with only one or zero fawns it's my belief that coyotes are the culprit 95%+ of the time. South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama and Texas have done controlled studies by their game departments using radio-collared fawns showing mortality rates as high as 79 percent.. I'm on the fence about Bobcats, they're everywhere in the south and they have a buttload of turkeys. But most southerners look at Bobcats like snakes, the only good ones a dead one.
 
Likes: jagermeister

rooster85

Junior Member
851
380
46
Lake County
#10
I shoot, or try to, every coyote I see. I enjoyed trapping cats when I lived out west but I never really experienced them as being overly destructive on wildlife.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Chass

Active Member
1,753
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The Hills
#11
I'd say coons and possums do a lot more damage on the turkeys than Bobcats and coyotes. Not likely to take down a healthy deer either. Yes it will happen on occasion but not as common as folks make it seem. They're not going to chase to kill every deer they see like your dog at home tries. They dont have a food bowl to come back to when they fail that 20 times a day. They'd starve and die. They're gonna focus on sure things scavenging dead stuff, picking off the sick and weak, and then sticking to the thick stuff and going after mice, rabbits and squirrels. Tons of research out there about this. Recently a presentation on it in Athens as well.
Not saying I wouldn't shoot at every coyote I see either.
 

cotty16

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
#15
Just based on observation... coyotes don't bother healthy deer. I've had deer in sight and heard coyotes howling. They don't even flinch. I've see coyotes come through and deer not far behind. I've had pics of coyotes on trail cams and deer shortly after. You know the deer had to smell that the yotes were there. Will a coyote test his skills on an adult? I'm sure they give a chase, but unless sickness or deep snow is slowing a deer down, they're pretty safe.

Just based on speculation... fawns gotta be easy meals for coyotes and bobcats. There's no doubt that a fair share will fall victim, but I don't think the numbers are as high as we think. Again, just speculation.

I'd say bobcats do far more damage to the turkey and small game population than anything. I saw a bobcat twice from the stand this year and both times it was a carrying a rabbit. But hey, the thing gotta eat, right? And I'd say those little furry turkey babies are easy pickins.

In regard to coyotes and the damage they do... all we can do is shoot the damn things when given a chance. Yeah, they hurt the herd some, but I don't think it's as bad as we think. Just my opinion.
 

Bowhunter57

Senior Member
3,072
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Allen County
#16
S.W.O.T. the guys you’re talking with?
There are 2 guys that live in Jackson County that are avid coyote hunters. They have 600 acres with trail cameras (unknown number) and haven't seen a turkey in over 2 years. Coyotes are bobcats are common on trail cam photos.

I'd say coons and possums do a lot more damage on the turkeys than Bobcats and coyotes. Not likely to take down a healthy deer either. Yes it will happen on occasion but not as common as folks make it seem.
I have to agree with you on the coons and possums. They're definitely nest thieves.
As for the coyotes taking deer down... They'll "test" them to see if any are falling behind, due to being sick. Opportunity seems to be their method of operation.

I'd say bobcats do far more damage to the turkey and small game population than anything. I saw a bobcat twice from the stand this year and both times it was a carrying a rabbit. But hey, the thing gotta eat, right?
I agree that the bobcats are more damaging to the small game population. The small game that I used to love to hunt and eat is seemingly long gone. Finding a population of rabbits to hunt, around here, is nearly impossible. It takes a lot of rabbits, turkeys and squirrels to feed a 40# coyote and/or a 25# bobcat. I don't see this changing.

I appreciate everyone's opinions and observations about this topic. It's good to hear from others in other parts of the state, as to what's happening in their neck of the woods. :cool:

Thank you, Bowhunter57
 

Chass

Active Member
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31
The Hills
#17
There are 2 guys that live in Jackson County that are avid coyote hunters. They have 600 acres with trail cameras (unknown number) and haven't seen a turkey in over 2 years. Coyotes are bobcats are common on trail cam photos.


I have to agree with you on the coons and possums. They're definitely nest thieves.
As for the coyotes taking deer down... They'll "test" them to see if any are falling behind, due to being sick. Opportunity seems to be their method of operation.


I agree that the bobcats are more damaging to the small game population. The small game that I used to love to hunt and eat is seemingly long gone. Finding a population of rabbits to hunt, around here, is nearly impossible. It takes a lot of rabbits, turkeys and squirrels to feed a 40# coyote and/or a 25# bobcat. I don't see this changing.

I appreciate everyone's opinions and observations about this topic. It's good to hear from others in other parts of the state, as to what's happening in their neck of the woods. :cool:

Thank you, Bowhunter57
You talking about the ousleys? They live close to me and have the dogs figured out. They can put em down with efficiency
 
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Chass

Active Member
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31
The Hills
#19
I'd be interested to know where in Jackson doesn't have turkeys. Betcha I can go out there anyday this week and get a gobble in the am. I live in Jackson and the Turkey numbers here and in the surrounding counters is pretty stellar. The last few years have been a huge favor to the population
 

hickslawns

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
32,356
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NW Ohio
#20
Some of the most educated hunters I know are on this forum. Clearly, there are others too who are not on TOO. Just surprises me to see a solid consensus. I believe opinions have evolved in recent years. Seems many have blamed coyotes on loss of deer but come full circle and no longer place full blame on predators. Definitely a complex matter. Sorry if you didn't find the answers you were looking for BH57. Then again, some of these responses came as a relief to me. I'm sort of glad people aren't all pointing at one culprit.
 
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