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Muzzleloading sabots

hickslawns

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#2
I have some. Used them. They were garbage. Tip came off just pushing them in the barrel. Not just one of them either. They may shoot well, but I never trusted one to fire it. If they fall apart while loading I have no confidence shooting them.
 

MK111

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#3
I have some. Used them. They were garbage. Tip came off just pushing them in the barrel. Not just one of them either. They may shoot well, but I never trusted one to fire it. If they fall apart while loading I have no confidence shooting them.
Damn that's a 1st. I and all the smokeless ML shooters use the blue ones. And we push them hard to max velocities.
 

bowhunter1023

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#4
Classic example of how nearly 100% of products will have a guy singing their praises with another ready to bring them down a peg. Always good to test them for yourself to see. As someone in the market for new sabots, I may give these a whirl as I'm done with the Shockwaves.
 

Iowa_Buckeye

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#5
Frank what are you comparing them against to say they are the best? And are you just comparing accuracy, or also performance when you shoot a deer with one?
All I can compare with personal experience are some old Hornady pieces of shit, Shockwaves (shot well but poor blood trails at times), and Barnes TMZ 290 grain. The Barnes are the best of what I've tried, and the only bad thing I have read about them is they can be hard to load in some guns. Especially with a fouled barrel. They shoot very well and produce devastating blood trails.
 

bowhunter1023

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#6
Good info on the blood trails IB. That's what I am after. I shot Powerbelts for years as that's what came with my CVA and Geezer gave me a decades worth about a decade ago. After growing impatient with their accuracy after after the barrel had been fouled, I switched to the Shockwaves based on results other have had. While they shoot great, way better than the PBs could ever hope for, I am well beyond displeased with their blood trails. The deer my wife shot last year went 300 yards after being double lunged. That's unacceptable performance. Much like my switch with broadheads this year, I need bigger entrance/exit wounds and want to ensure I get both in combination with accuracy.
 

MK111

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#7
Frank what are you comparing them against to say they are the best? And are you just comparing accuracy, or also performance when you shoot a deer with one?
All I can compare with personal experience are some old Hornady pieces of shit, Shockwaves (shot well but poor blood trails at times), and Barnes TMZ 290 grain. The Barnes are the best of what I've tried, and the only bad thing I have read about them is they can be hard to load in some guns. Especially with a fouled barrel. They shoot very well and produce devastating blood trails.
Several years ago went I went to high velocity smokeless ML I went to the only website dealing with smokeless ML's.
dougsmessageboards.com
All the successful high velocity smokeless ML shooters used these harvest sabots. The ones they use and I use are the light blue ones. I tried them and I shoot a TC Encore 45-70 barrel that I had the chamber threaded for a Savage smokeless breach plug. Since the barrel was a factory smokeless barrel I can shoot hot 45-70 smokeless loads. It's a common conversion and even couple gunsmith do the conversion. I have 2 of these conversions on TC Encores.
From the first get go it shot accurate 3 shot groups. Shot 3 deer and all 3 were 1 shot kills at 75-85-115 yds.
I shoot the 45 harvester blue sabot with smokeless powder and a 40 caliber Hornady FTX plastic bullet. I shoot the same Hornady design bullet in my 45 ML, 45-70 Marlin and my TC 460 S&W Mag rifles.
 

Buckeye79

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#13
Good info but at almost $2.00 per bullet I'll stay with my Hornady at about 30 cents each that work just fine on dead deer.
I agree they are costly but i'm not planning on using a lot of them plus I like to shoot long range. If you don't push the velocity with some of the different types they won't expand either. My smokeless is built specifically for them because of the pressure and velocity I need the thicker jacket. My brother has a savage smokeless and the ballistic extremes perform well out of it on animals and they are accurate. They are a specialty bullet with a cost but if your looking for that I would check them out.
 
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#15
Hickslawn, he was talking only about the actual Harvester sabot, not the projectile itself I think And it you don't use the proper loading jag for a expansion tip (plastic) bullet may well come out. The bullet are just a standard hollow point with the plastic expansion point added to aid in expansion at low velocity and to increase the BC of the bullet.

Harvester does make sabots that will hold up to the high pressure of smokeless MZ's MMP's just won't handle the higher pressure loads as a general rule. Depends on how hard you push the load and the bullet diameter in relationship to barrel bore.


What you guys may or may not know is that almost every sabot load, maybe every one, for a MZ is using either Harvester or MMP sabots, Doesn't matter what name in on the box of bullets.
 
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MK111

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#16
Hickslawn, he was talking only about the actual Harvester sabot, not the projectile itself I think And it you don't use the proper loading jag for a expansion tip (plastic) bullet may well come out. The bullet are just a standard hollow point with the plastic expansion point added to aid in expansion at low velocity and to increase the BC of the bullet.

Harvester does make sabots that will hold up to the high pressure of smokeless MZ's MMP's just won't handle the higher pressure loads as a general rule. Depends on how hard you push the load and the bullet diameter in relationship to barrel bore.


What you guys may or may not know is that almost every sabot load, maybe every one, for a MZ is using either Harvester or MMP sabots, Doesn't matter what name in on the box of bullets.
Good points. I missed the bullet tip coming On Phil's bullets.
Didn't know that most sabots were Harvester brand.
 
#17
Since a picture is worth a thousand words, a video must be worth a million.
I posted these last year also, but seems applicable again.
Here are 2 blood trails from a Barnes 290 TMZ from 2 does I shot one afternoon last gun season. Both were quartering away and the bullet stopped in the off shoulder. I can't even image what the trail would have been with an exit hole.

I'll let you decide if they would be worth a try.....

https://youtu.be/NwtiQhipkxs

https://youtu.be/tKm8ddAnufs
 

jagermeister

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#19
Another vote for Barnes.

TC shockwaves have been shitty for me. Acceptable accuracy, but unacceptable performance. I've got one on my shelf I recovered from a button buck a couple years ago... 60 yard shot... Bullet never expanded, at all. Damn thing looks like it just got pulled out of the package.