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Muzzle loader bullet results

hickslawns

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After reading Mike's entry hole thread with the doe he shot, it got me thinking about results with muzzle loader bullets. Lundy had some info that made me wonder. I realize Mike was using a shotgun, but muzzle loader season (or seasons haha) are coming up. Ohiosam recently posted some stuff which made me scratch my head. Said he didn't like the results from some of the bullets shot out of his muzzle loader.

With this said, the doe I shot last weekend was not the biggest. However, it went thru the near side just behind her shoulder and exited thru the off side shoulder. The shoulder was fragmented to the point that I didn't even try to salvage the meat. Tons of fragments in there. The curious part about this is the fact there was also an exit hole. She was at 65yds. Should I expect a pass thru shot with the muzzle loader normally? (This is the first blood I have gotten with a muzzle loader.) Do you guys like to see exit holes when using a shotgun or ml? Do you expect it? WHich bullets have produced the best results? I am only concerned with which bullets are going to be the most lethal.
 

jagermeister

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I do like exit holes for the simple fact that the blood trail is usually better with one. More often than not, if I shoot one with a gun there isn't much (if any) tracking involved, but an exit would just gives me a little insurance. I think I've only ever shot three or four deer with a MZ... Two with powerbelt platinum 295gr and one or two with TC shockwave 245gr. I had exit wounds on every one of those shots. They also all died within 15 yds of impact. The powerbelts mushroom more than they fragment, whereas the shockwaves fragmented each time. I'm not a huge fan of fragmentation because I don't like having to play operation and pick pieces of metal out while I'm butchering.
 

Gern186

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Most of the deer I shoot with the powerbelts don't have an exit wound, and the deer drops right in its tracks. I have found the bullets inside of several of those deer and they are mushroomed out. The deer has to absorb all of the energy of the bullet and the shock to the body drops the deer usually.

If you happen to shoot through a deer and not hit any bone (ribs) then you will most likely have an exit hole, which is not a bad thing either......good blood trail.
 

Huckleberry Finn

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I have only shot one deer with my muzzleloader and that was down at Sandridge. 125 grains of power and a TC 245 gr sabot. (Could have been a Horandy 250). Regardless, made a blood trail that Ray Charles could find, plus it was in the snow.
 

Gern186

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gern and brown . the powder charde will make a difference . ow much powder you guys shooting also

Yeah, your'e right......I shoot 100 grains. The distance the deer is from you will make a huge difference also. Outside of 100 yards the bullet is highly likely to remain in the deer.
 
i shoot 100 grs of triple seven and the t c 245 gr. bullet . at 10 yards it blows chunks of lung out the other side . but at 100 yards or so it just leaves a hole through the deer . the one i shot at about 200 yards also left a exit hole but the damage to the inside was not near as bad as at 100 yards .
 

brock ratcliff

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I've used the Hornady EXP, 245 and Powerbelt 245 hollow point primarily. The exp killed deer dead, but compared to the powerbelts were a pain. The powerbelts have typically given an exit hole bigger than a 12 gauge, and the deer have never gone far at all. They make a mess, bloodshot all over the exit side. Personally, I should probably be more concerned about bullet performance I guess, but I've killed a sack full of deer with a roundball at 100 yards or so, and I kinda think they will likely all do the job pretty well. Hope I don't prove that wrong anytime soon.
 
There's a lot of K.E. involved with large projectiles, so a pass through should be expected...but not promised, as there are other variables. Distance to the target, size of the powder charge, shot placement and bullet design are a few of the main factors.

I've only MZ killed deer with a patched roundball (.50 cal./ 175gr.) and got pass throughs every time. 80gr. of FF and the shots were inside 60 yards. The K.E. with a RB is amazing, as the deer are or are nearly knocked off of their feet.

Bowhunter57
 

bowhunter1023

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I shoot bullets like I do arrows...Maybe a little slow, but they're heavy and hit with a ton bricks!!! I've shot deer from 150 yards to 30 with it and have always had pass throughs. I'm a 100 grain Triple 7 and a 295 grain Powerbelt Aerotip bullet guy. I have enough to worry about with my archery setups, so I just shoot whatever flies straight from my guns. If I can kill deer with pumpkin balls and a smooth bore, this new aged muzzleloading stuff should take care of itself!
 

hickslawns

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This tells me what I needed to hear. Thanks for the reassurance. My buddy killed his buck during gun season and had no exit. He talked about switching to something different than the SST Hornady slugs. Then again, we are talking about 165yd shot with a slug gun. Personally, I was impressed with the carnage internally on the deer. With his shot placement, the damage done showed why that deer did not run far. Given proper shot placement, I don't think it will matter. I guess whether they expand more, or fragment is not a huge issue.

I want to continue shooting my muzzle loader and my bow a ton until I tag out or run out of season. I am not as confident with my muzzle loader as I would like to be. TC Omega shooting 100gr (pellets) and (currently) 245gr Powerbelt Aerotips. I can lump them in a volleyball sized group at 100yds with this setup. I would like more of a softball sized group. Is this more realistic? Volleyball size just doesn't quite do it for me and that is at 100yds. This limits me to 100yd or less shots. This gun (Nikon Omega BDC250 scope) should be lethal out to 150-200-250yds. As it is right now, I won't shoot over 100yds until I get her dialed in tighter. I am scratching my head on this one.
 

Dannmann801

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CJ turned me on to TC shockwave..He was having trouble grouping powerbelts and the TC's worked for him. I tried some last weekend at the range

I shoot 90gr of pyrodex. These are the groupings at 100 yds (I'm zeroed at 120)

Shockwave 245gr two shots pretty much in the same hole


Powerbelt Hollowpoints


Pictures are sideways, btw...I'm high, not left:smiley_baby:
 
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hickslawns

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Thanks Dan!

Well, I have probably 6-8 different bullets I can shoot. Last year I probably spent $100+ dollars looking for the right combo. This year I bet it was an easy $50. If I can't get it dialed in tighter, then I am not sure which direction I will go. Contact TC? Switch from Triple 7 100grains? Borrow my buddy's already dialed in Encore? lol
 

Dannmann801

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Maybe try different measures of loose powder.
My FFL guy who set me up and coached me intially started me at 70gr and we worked our way up....90 seems to be a good number.
Still experimenting.
 

Beentown

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Those are almost my exact results Dan. Powerbelts were always 3" or more. T/C's averaged 1.5 @ 100

Great shooing brother!
 

Ohiosam

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Ohiosam recently posted some stuff which made me scratch my head. Said he didn't like the results from some of the bullets shot out of his muzzle loader.

Phil, first let me be clear that I've had very few deer that I've hit go over 50 yards. I've never had a bullet I thought was real terrible, but there are things I like to see. First I like bang/flops, XTPs give me those and those are the bullets I judge others by. I shoot a deer broadside through rib cage there better be an exit hole. If I hit a shoulder I would prefer an exit hole. The reason I feel this way is if a bullet won't hold together on the "easy" shots what will it do on the tough ones?

There was only one bullet that I decided I would never use again for deer. 180 grain Dead Centers(google them) most accurate bullet I've ever shot in my rifle but the only deer I believe I lost because of the bullet was with them. I shot 3 deer that year with them and not once did the bullet exit. A bb shot through the shoulder, ran 80-100 yards and died, no blood trail. An 8 point shot at a slight angle I hit a little too far back and only clipped on lung, had to track it ~200 yards. Found the slung just under the hide, the one hole made for a pretty light blood trail. The deer I lost was because of confusion and lack of a blood trail. One of my buddies shot a doe, I walked out and saw a doe standing broadside so I shoot. After the recoil the deer is gone. Go over and there is a dead deer right where I shot with a blood trail back to where my buddy shot and only one entrance hole on the wrong side. How could I have missed?? Was there a second deer?? Followed the deer trail (this was more like a deer highway) for over 100 yards into the woods with no blood but wasn't sure if there was even a deer to follow or if we were following the correct trail. We found her the next day by accident about another 100 yards away in a thicket, the shot hit good but didn't exit.

The last couple of years I've used 250 gr SST(Shockwaves) they are pretty good but I've had a few shoulder hits that didn't exit and a few really good hits where the deer didn't die as quickly as I like. So I'm trying 300 grain SSTs this year.

So if I like XTPs why don't I use them? Even though I kill 90%+ of my deer inside 50 yards I think because I'm carrying a ML fully capable of shooting 200 yards I ought to be prepared to do it. XTPs aren't the best long range choice. I'm looking for the perfect bullet that works the way I want it to from 20 ft to 200 yards (is that too much to ask? Probably.).

I do need to try some of the Barnes bullets.
 

hickslawns

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thank you all for the info! Sam, this is great info and I am going to read it, re-read it, and digest it a bit more before I do anything else. I have plenty of Powerbelts, Shockwaves, and Hornady bullets to choose from when finding that right combo. Might have to give you a call here soon to pick your brain a bit. Maybe there is something simple with the muzzle loader I am doing wrong. I dunno?
 
and remember kids . the rule of thumb used to be , place the ball in the palm of your hand , cover it with powder , and that is your load . it seems 90 grains of ffg will just cover a 50 cal. roundball .
 

jagermeister

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Like Dan, I got away from the Powerbelts because of shitty groups compared to the TC Shockwaves. I don't hunt with the MZ very much, though... so I pretty much stopped my search at the shockwaves. My all-time favorite 12 gauge sabots are the Federal Premium Barnes Expanders, so the next MZ round I plan on trying are the MZ Barnes Expanders. If they're anything like the shotgun sabots, it'll be a no-brainer.
 

Dannmann801

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One more thing Phil - at the range shooting my muzzy trying to group, between every shot I run both wet then dry patches down the barrel, at least one, sometimes 2, just trying to keep it as clean as possible to achieve consistent results.