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Gun week total is down 8%

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
97
ohio
Maybe I am just really fortunate! I dont know. But....THe deer herd isnt shrinking around my area. Although, The areas I hunt are for the most part, low pressure. We keep them that way for a reason.

I think this year is not a good year to use as a control when comparing deer numbers to past years! I think the mass acorn crop had a large impact on deer movement and visibility. Large numbers of oakc producing means the deer didnt have to move far to get food. When deer are not moving far to eat, your chances of seeing them are severely going to go down!

FOr example, it is really quite simple to maintain a piece of property. My buddy has a tree farm that is approximately 50 acres. There is no gun hunting on that farm. The last day of gun season we sat with a spotting scope and counted 25 deer come out of the spruce field on the west end of hte property. Then we drove to the eNE end, counted 15 deer coming out of the other spruce field. Not ot mention how many deeer were still in the woods and in our food plot.

THe night I shot my doe, two nights ago, I saw 25 plus deer. 1 of which was my drop tine buck, there were also 4 other bucks in that group. I know these are not al lthe deer behind my house either. As my nieghbor was hunting 1/2 mile away through the woods and saw a gaggle of deer also. Why are there so many deer? There is only one screwball who hunts in that area carelessly. Consequently he doesnt kill much, he did kill one of my baby bucks the Sat of Gun season, a 1.5 y/o 9pt. I could tell when he was hunting the woods, it changed all the deers patterns as to how they approached my property. They did this to avoid him, and they did a good job. The funny thing is this guy has made the comment to my neighbor, "where are all the deer this year? Im not seeing any." Now, here is where your comments of "im not seeing any deer" come from. HE will sit and argue with anyone that there are no deer in that hillside, when I know for a fact there are a ton. You be the judge!

In no way shape or form am I saying anyone on here is doing things wrong. Hey, you do what works for you. Although, when its not working, its time to make a change. I have appraoched the neighbor that I spoke of previously about his approach to hunting. In all honesty I am trying to help him, in turn it will help me also. HE wont listen, then I hear he is running his mouth behind my back. Saying that the punk neighbor kid is trying to tell him how to hunt and that hes been hunting deer since before I was born. Well, unfortunately for him he has never killed a buck over 60 inches and never will unless he changes his ways! At this point I am done trying to help him, he can continue to screw himself while I continue to see all the deer that are supposedly not on that hill. To be honest, I dont even hunt behind my house all that much either.

Just remember one thing, you cannot be every where at all times. Just because you are not seeing deer, doesnt mean they are not there. High pressure deer stay alive for a reason, they are masters at eluding the predator. THe Predator being you or other hunters.
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
39,120
274
Yeah... That's what it is... Brock, Sean, and myself have simply forgotten how to hunt. And the 8 or so BECs on Seans property that have been there for 5 years and are now taking 50% less pictures somehow forgot how to work 50% of the time...
.. And the hundreds of others i have talked to at gas stations, check stations, and in diners, have all forgot how to hunt... Damn.. It's like a hunting tactic amnesia epidemic.

I see your point kaiser.. But that only proves you have one idiot hunting around you.
 

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
97
ohio
Didny say you didnt know how to hunt, dont get lippy with me joe joe! ha There are two things you just mentioned that can be factored in to the decrease in deer on that property, and both lean towards human intrusion. How many acres and how many people? How many of the BECs are not wireless? Meaning, how many get physically checked by a human?
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
39,120
274
Didny say you didnt know how to hunt, dont get lippy with me joe joe! ha There are two things you just mentioned that can be factored in to the decrease in deer on that property, and both lean towards human intrusion. How many acres and how many people? How many of the BECs are not wireless? Meaning, how many get physically checked by a human?

Not lippy.. I just don't understand how you guys can compare one parcel where you hunt.. With the examples i am giving you of county after county and person after person.. I kid you not i have asked easily over 100 people those questions all the way from Clark to Vinton. Or use 1 person as an example of what might be the problem with hundreds of people and hundreds of properties. I'm happy the situation is different for you.. Consider yourself fortunate. Because you're the exception, not the norm these days from what i have seen..

The BECs.. Every one of them are wireless.. Nothing has changed on the property as far as intrusion from what it was 5 years ago. If anything it's less. And they are taking 50% less pictures than they were 4 years ago.

What I should do is Make a survey and put it in all the check stations. Kind of what like the DNR does in their mailings. Except i will not hide the answers..
 

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
97
ohio
Im not just comparing 1 piece of ground I hunt! I have multiple, probably up to 6 that I hunt on a regular basis. The only reason why I have so much is to keep intrusion down on the ones I primarily focus on.

FOr example the new farm I just got this year and the 175 acres next to it were awesome up until the first week of season. Prior to bow season I was getting 12 diff P&Y bucks on cam. After hte first week of bow season, I was getting 1 or 2 randomely. I later find out that the place is getting molested by other hunters. They had permission, they were just clueless. I actually witnissed it first hand, if I were a deer I wouldnt be there either.

All deer are different, but from what I have learned, heavily pressured deer dont put up with any nonsense. First sign of human intrusion and they are gone. As little as bumping them on the way to your stand 1 time. Although, I think in your case the deer numbers could be down. Are you guys zone C?
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
39,120
274
Im not just comparing 1 piece of ground I hunt! I have multiple, probably up to 6 that I hunt on a regular basis. The only reason why I have so much is to keep intrusion down on the ones I primarily focus on.

FOr example the new farm I just got this year and the 175 acres next to it were awesome up until the first week of season. Prior to bow season I was getting 12 diff P&Y bucks on cam. After hte first week of bow season, I was getting 1 or 2 randomely. I later find out that the place is getting molested by other hunters. They had permission, they were just clueless. I actually witnissed it first hand, if I were a deer I wouldnt be there either.

All deer are different, but from what I have learned, heavily pressured deer dont put up with any nonsense. First sign of human intrusion and they are gone. As little as bumping them on the way to your stand 1 time. Although, I think in your case the deer numbers could be down. Are you guys zone C?

Yes i would say 90% of the individuals i have talked to are in Zone C. Although Fayette where Brock is in Zone B but bordering C.. Although. We are seeing more and More from Zone B and A complaining. Like I said 4 years ago when Brock and I brought this up the first time we were almost laughed off the site. Now we see more and more today that aren't laughing anymore.

Idiots and slob hunters have been around forever. I know the properties i am talking about have not changed in regards to intrusion. They are hunted the same as they have been for years. Actually our lease was once public hunting where any Tom Dick or Hairy could walk on it... When Mead made the decision to lease it, some of the locals who hunted it since they were kids decided not to let some nonlocals lease it... SO they leased it themselves. If anything there is less intrusion. Only about 6 of us bowhunt. And 4 of those might only go down there for 2-3 weekends and the week of the rut. intrusion is picking up on the surrounding 6,000 acres. The owner has decided he would like to be an outfitter.. If intrusion is the factor we should see a flood of deer from his place next year.
 

Mike

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
15,989
237
Up Nort
Since I've been hunting for only three years, I have only three seasons to compare. The first two seasons were slow for me, I was learning and I still am. I saw deer on many occasion, but I never took a shot. There were stretches that I never saw deer. This year, I've killed three deer. It's a miracle to me! I have seen deer on 95% of my hunts. My boss started hunting the same season that I did. He didn't take a deer his first two season either and he has killed three deer also. Would I be greedy if I said I wanted to get another deer? They are plentiful out in upper zone B,
 

mrex

*Supporting member*
439
79
Historically, over 40% of the gun harvest occurs the first 2 days of the week. A check station near my home was up 21% the first day and down 74% compared with last years numbers. Obviously, Tuesday's washout had a huge impact state wide.

Assuming harvest data is the "bellwether" of future of deer hunting in Ohio, the past 25 years shows a disturbing trend.

 
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Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
39,120
274
Historically, over 40% of the gun harvest occurs the first 2 days of the week. A check station near my home was up 21% the first day and down 74% compared with last years numbers. Obviously, Tuesday's washout had a huge impact state wide.

Assuming harvest data is the "bellwether" of future of deer hunting in Ohio, the past 25 years shows a disturbing trend.

And last year it rained for 2 days straight both Tuesday and Wednesday. And the year before that was bad weather too. How many years can we blame it on bad weather when we've had bad weather a couple years in a row. inclement weather may have an effect for that particular days harvest numbers.. But, can you remember a gun season that was a solid week of sunshine? Yes we might see a slightly lower number if we have a gun season with weather worse than the last. However, inclement weather was blamed last year for low gun numbers in VC. This year the harvest is around 27% less with better weather. ???? Those dollars don't make cents. Yet weather is still being blamed. However this season the weather was actually better with 27% less killed. What they are calling inclement weather is actually inclimate weather. A funny saying comes to mind that fits... Piss down someone eases back and tell them it's raining.. LOL


Also... Say Next year i have less deer at the start of season than the previous year.. Logic would say since there are less deer to kill, harvest numbers would go down.. But say i double the tags in all zones, Move some counties into a higher bag limit zone, and give 2 extra days of gun? Opportunity = success. Just because we kill more deer last year than 4 years ago doesn't mean we have more deer overall. If EHD killed 25% of the deer in VC, and the very next year i double the tags and throw in an extra gun. I bet i could maintain harvest numbers. However this is short lived. The truth will eventually catch up.. That is unless i increase something again. Consequentially harvest numbers have dropped around 7% to 15% a year each year in VC. Comparing this year to 4 years ago the totals are down around 40%... BUT if i increase tags and move this A zone county to B and this B zone county to C i can offset that loss. Wala. I am slowly decreasing the numbers as a whole across the state, and still able to tout "record harvest" numbers. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what they are doing and how they are fixing what the DNR says is "An overpopulation"... But essentially what they are accomplishing is hammering the huntable areas and not putting a scratch on the real problem areas that are urban areas. But.. That doesn't matter to the insurance companies. One deer getting hit at 60 MPH on Hwy 50 in Vinton will cost more than 3 urbanites hitting one at 25 mph in columbus.. Sooo in the grand scheme of things an insurance companies stats will show that areas like VC is costing them far more than a subdivision in Columbus. Despite the higher deer population in that suburb.. It's not hard to see what the DNR is doing Mike.. The problem is most don't comprehend the depth...
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
39,120
274
For anyone who doesn't believe the DNR is pandering to the insurance companies. Consider the following.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety reports that from 2000-2007, Ohio ranked 4th based on state deaths in crashes with animals..

ODPS reports 24,590 deer-vehicle collisions in 2008, down 6.5 percent from the 26,304 crashes reported in 2007.
There were 6 fatalities and 979 injuries caused by these crashes in Ohio last year. This compares to 10 fatalities and
1,022 injuries reported in 2007 and 12 fatalities and 1,024 injuries reported in 2006. 2008 Ohio deer-vehicle collisions continue decline. Ohio deer-vehicle crashes decreased 6.5 percent in 2008

Vehicle damage and insurance coverage
Vehicle damage varies dramatically depending on the type of vehicle, its speed upon impact and area of the vehicle
that sustains the hit. According to the Insurance Information Institute (III), vehicle damage from deer collisions
averages about $3,000 per claim nationally. Crashes that include bodily injury could increase costs significantly. OII
estimates Ohio auto damages approached $73.7 million in 2008 based on average costs per claim.


New State Farm® data released
State Farm®, the largest insurer of autos in the U.S. estimates there were 2.4 million deer-vehicle collisions across
the country from July 2007 through June 2009 – an average of 100,000 per month – an 18.3% increase from five
years ago (July 2002 through June 2004)(www.statefarm.com/about/media/media_releases/20090928.asp). Ohio saw a 27%
increase during the same period (www.statefarm.com/_pdf/deer_map_increase.pdf). Using its claims data, State Farm®
predicts the likelihood of a deer-vehicle collision over the next year at 1 in 161 in Ohio. This compares to the U.S.
likelihood of 1 in 208 (www.statefarm.com/_pdf/collision_likelihood_09.pdf).
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
39,120
274
For anyone who doesn't believe the DNR is pandering to the insurance companies. Consider the following.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety reports that from 2000-2007, Ohio ranked 4th based on state deaths in crashes with animals..

ODPS reports 24,590 deer-vehicle collisions in 2008, down 6.5 percent from the 26,304 crashes reported in 2007.
There were 6 fatalities and 979 injuries caused by these crashes in Ohio last year. This compares to 10 fatalities and
1,022 injuries reported in 2007 and 12 fatalities and 1,024 injuries reported in 2006. 2008 Ohio deer-vehicle collisions continue decline. Ohio deer-vehicle crashes decreased 6.5 percent in 2008

Vehicle damage and insurance coverage
Vehicle damage varies dramatically depending on the type of vehicle, its speed upon impact and area of the vehicle
that sustains the hit. According to the Insurance Information Institute (III), vehicle damage from deer collisions
averages about $3,000 per claim nationally. Crashes that include bodily injury could increase costs significantly. OII
estimates Ohio auto damages approached $73.7 million in 2008 based on average costs per claim.


New State Farm® data released
State Farm®, the largest insurer of autos in the U.S. estimates there were 2.4 million deer-vehicle collisions across
the country from July 2007 through June 2009 – an average of 100,000 per month – an 18.3% increase from five
years ago (July 2002 through June 2004)(www.statefarm.com/about/media/media_releases/20090928.asp). Ohio saw a 27%
increase during the same period (www.statefarm.com/_pdf/deer_map_increase.pdf). Using its claims data, State Farm®
predicts the likelihood of a deer-vehicle collision over the next year at 1 in 161 in Ohio. This compares to the U.S.
likelihood of 1 in 208 (www.statefarm.com/_pdf/collision_likelihood_09.pdf).
 

Dannmann801

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
10,858
205
Springboro
Deja vu

And yeah, Mrex, I didn't understand your last post, in all seriousness. Not bein a dick, I just don't get it, please expand.

Also heard that Vinton county was being rezoned into an Urban Area (that was me being a dick)

I also had another thought - I wuz pissed when gun season started on a Monday this year - forced me to use a vacation day. Didn't wanna burn a second day to hunt Tuesday, figgered I'd just wait it out till Friday and make it a long weekend. I wonder if alot of other guys did the same. But my thought was that I had to get at least one day in before the pattern-changing craziness of the week started, figured that by the weekend the deer would be sittin tighter. Anybody else got thoughts on starting the season on Monday vs Saturday?
 
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"J"

Git Off My Lawn
Supporting Member
59,037
288
North Carolina
I didn't hunt at all tues during gun season due to the rain, normally it doesn't stop me but for some reason didn't want to endure it this year.... Don't know how many felt that way but just sayin I did and if there were a lot I can believe it had an effect on the total for the week.... Now as far as previous years, who knows.... Joe your data does speak to some of the reasons it could be down or a combo of both...
 

Ohiosam

*Supporting Member*
11,990
205
Mahoning Co.
What I think Mike is saying is that the trend is still towards the harvest increasing and that is reflecting that the herd(statewide) is also increasing. From his posts in the past I know Mike thinks a smaller herd is a good thing, I don't disagree.

Sorry Mike if I misinterpreted your post or wrongly stated your position.

If I'm reading the chart correctly the numbers on the left and the reddish bars are the opening day kills. The numbers on the right and the black line are the total kills for the year. (correction reddish bars are BB kills)
 
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"J"

Git Off My Lawn
Supporting Member
59,037
288
North Carolina
If you look at 97 & 98 you would of thought the sky was falling.... Took several years to recouperate from what ever made the numbers plument
 

Ohiosam

*Supporting Member*
11,990
205
Mahoning Co.
If you look at 97 & 98 you would of thought the sky was falling.... Took several years to recouperate from what ever made the numbers plument

I lose track of time. After years of only killing one deer for a few years we were allowed 2, then it went back to one again. I can't remember what years and how many counties were involved. I would have guessed it was earlier then 97 but I just can't remember.
 

mrex

*Supporting member*
439
79
And last year it rained for 2 days straight both Tuesday and Wednesday. And the year before that was bad weather too. How many years can we blame it on bad weather when we've had bad weather a couple years in a row. inclement weather may have an effect for that particular days harvest numbers.. But, can you remember a gun season that was a solid week of sunshine? Yes we might see a slightly lower number if we have a gun season with weather worse than the last. However, inclement weather was blamed last year for low gun numbers in VC. This year the harvest is around 27% less with better weather. ???? Those dollars don't make cents. Yet weather is still being blamed. However this season the weather was actually better with 27% less killed. What they are calling inclement weather is actually inclimate weather. A funny saying comes to mind that fits... Piss down someone eases back and tell them it's raining.. LOL


Also... Say Next year i have less deer at the start of season than the previous year.. Logic would say since there are less deer to kill, harvest numbers would go down.. But say i double the tags in all zones, Move some counties into a higher bag limit zone, and give 2 extra days of gun? Opportunity = success. Just because we kill more deer last year than 4 years ago doesn't mean we have more deer overall. If EHD killed 25% of the deer in VC, and the very next year i double the tags and throw in an extra gun. I bet i could maintain harvest numbers. However this is short lived. The truth will eventually catch up.. That is unless i increase something again. Consequentially harvest numbers have dropped around 7% to 15% a year each year in VC. Comparing this year to 4 years ago the totals are down around 40%... BUT if i increase tags and move this A zone county to B and this B zone county to C i can offset that loss. Wala. I am slowly decreasing the numbers as a whole across the state, and still able to tout "record harvest" numbers. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what they are doing and how they are fixing what the DNR says is "An overpopulation"... But essentially what they are accomplishing is hammering the huntable areas and not putting a scratch on the real problem areas that are urban areas. But.. That doesn't matter to the insurance companies. One deer getting hit at 60 MPH on Hwy 50 in Vinton will cost more than 3 urbanites hitting one at 25 mph in columbus.. Sooo in the grand scheme of things an insurance companies stats will show that areas like VC is costing them far more than a subdivision in Columbus. Despite the higher deer population in that suburb.. It's not hard to see what the DNR is doing Mike.. The problem is most don't comprehend the depth...

Do you have a solution for accessing the deer in the "unhuntable" areas?