No mans land

[Jackalope]

that's my thinking, too, Gordo.

I disagree with the estimation that the shoulder blade is 10" forward of the entrance. I'd say more like 5 or 6" assuming deer was standing with head up and front leg perpendicular to the ground when arrow struck. the more I look, the more I think arrow slipped behind the shoulder blade and is in the spine "underneath" the shoulder blade. picture is full of deception, we can only speculate. still, I'd bet my favorite bow that the business end of that arrow is lodged in heavy bone and never entered the ribcage.

Here. Look how far forward and high that blade is. That arrow is well behind the shoulder blade. For the head to be lodged behind it the angle would have to be much much steeper.

In the original pic you can see the hair line muscle definition for the whole shoulder the paddle is forward of that, higher, and the joint is angled toward the front.

 

[brock ratcliff]

As Joe eluded to, I have a little experience with these shots. Its more simple than some would like to believe really. The forward portion of the lungs are shaped a lot like the end of a football. Tight to the shoulder, angled forward into the offside shoulder and 1/2 way up the body goes right over the top of the lungs. The doe Joe posted a pic of was recovered 18 hours after the shot - still alive. The buck in the trailcam photo lived on as far as I could tell. We've had a thread on this before in which I posted those pics... Its a real issue, and the reason I strongly advocate shooting deer squarely in the middle of the ribcage with a bow. The lungs are largest there, and it provides the greatest room for error. Strangely just last night I watched Mike waddel shoot a buck that his buddy Tbone had just shot in exactly the same spot. The deer had traveled 2000 yards from where Tbone originally shot him. That deer would have survived if he had not wandered in front of Michael. Stay away from the "pocket"!

 

[Gordo]

The arrows always have a bit of meet on them.

Its so damn strange because it looks perfect. Including the pass through.

I'll also stick by the statement that it is IMPOSSIBLE to send an arrow below the spine/above the lungs. Its an illusion.

Next time u have one skinned, really take a look at the entire spine. Notice how the spine gets furthur away from the top of the deer leading into the kneck

 

[Jackalope]

The arrows always have a bit of meet on them.

Its so damn strange because it looks perfect. Including the pass through.

I'll also stick by the statement that it is IMPOSSIBLE to send an arrow below the spine/above the lungs. Its an illusion.

Next time u have one skinned, really take a look at the entire spine. Notice how the spine gets furthur away from the top of the deer leading into the kneck

It's not impossible. People do it every year. Look at that buck I posted that brocks buddy shot. You can't get any more midline. That deers spine would have to be well below center line for it to go over the spine.

 

[Gordo]

My experience with them has always been on a perfectly broadside shot.

Has anyone 'no mans land' shot a deer broadside, and the arrow didnt pass threw?

 

[Gordo]

Cant see that photo well on my shitty phone. Will look on computer when im home. I have a couple photos that ill try to find

 

[brock ratcliff]

It isn't that the arrow even goes through a gap...the doe I recovered the next dAy had a razor-sharp thunderhead put THROUGH the top of the front lobe of BOTH lungs! No one cares to believe that...but its the truth! There wasn't a speck of blood on the ground that I could find. I found her alive with the then-illegal use of a dog. She had a milky substance coming out of her nose, but no blood. I finished the job with a knife and she nearly flogged me to death in the process. Not fun.

 

[Jackalope]

I drew out where the paddle should be in this pic. I was pretty generous with the size also.

 

[Gordo]

 

[Gordo]

It isn't that the arrow even goes through a gap...the doe I recovered the next dAy had a razor-sharp thunderhead put THROUGH the top of the front lobe of BOTH lungs! No one cares to believe that...

I believe it. It didnt 'miss the lungs.

 

[Gordo]

Its beer thirty boys! Everyone have fun and be safe this evening

 

[hickslawns]

Not pointing the finger at anyone specific. I think many people I have talked to who claim to have hit "no man's land" more than likely gut shot, neck shot, brisket, thru the backstraps, etc. I always take the source of the story into consideration before believing "no man's land" stories. Like many, I DO believe it exists. I also believe it happens more often than people want to believe.

 

[Jackalope]

As Joe eluded to, I have a little experience with these shots. Its more simple than some would like to believe really. The forward portion of the lungs are shaped a lot like the end of a football. Tight to the shoulder, angled forward into the offside shoulder and 1/2 way up the body goes right over the top of the lungs. The doe Joe posted a pic of was recovered 18 hours after the shot - still alive. The buck in the trailcam photo lived on as far as I could tell. We've had a thread on this before in which I posted those pics... Its a real issue, and the reason I strongly advocate shooting deer squarely in the middle of the ribcage with a bow. The lungs are largest there, and it provides the greatest room for error. Strangely just last night I watched Mike waddel shoot a buck that his buddy Tbone had just shot in exactly the same spot. The deer had traveled 2000 yards from where Tbone originally shot him. That deer would have survived if he had not wandered in front of Michael. Stay away from the "pocket"!

here's the vid of that buck.. perfect shot and waddell shoots it again some 2000 away.

http://outdoorchannel.com/video.aspx?g=hunting&f=KVKomFAWRC3s&guid=5zrjdOEv8frPJgZ8JV8b5nUyuP4mTeTT

 

[Jackalope]

View attachment 18801

That arrow is way way behind that dip in the neck. That dip is almost in front of the leg. What would be considered high shoulder to in front of the shoulder. I watched Alex shoot one there last year. She ducked and spun, caught it high to the front of the paddle. Tracked her for over a mile. good blood but nada.

 

[Gordo]

The arrow in brocks photo?

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

It comes down to the fact that they are tough animals.

 

[Jackalope]

The arrow in brocks photo?

The arrow is pointing to the hole. The dark spot on the buck.

 

[jlane]

had a buddy start bow hunting years ago, shot a doe said it was a good hit ,solid pass thru helped him look very little blood, could not understand until we got ready to hunt that afternoon and he was going to use same broadhead the one he shot her with, also the same one he had been practicing with,extreamly dull blades, rule of thumb if you can push blades thru streached rubberbands without cutting them ,too dull, we always use new blades,if it hits dirt it,s dull

 

[Gordo]

well.... Obviously that deer was born with abnormal insides. lol :smiley_chinrub:

I'll still stick with everything I said. Having experienced it myself multiple times with the exact same broadside POI, and trying to figure out WTF happened through my dads experiences, with him marking the exact same broadside POI; my 'no mans land' isnt changing.

 

[Hedgelj]

Joe, the photo your placed up where you drew out the paddle aka the shoulder blade I think gave me another possibility. Arrow enters behind the diaphragm and somehow misses stomach and liver, due to the angle it goes through either missing the lungs (possibly in between them based on the angle) and vessels or putting a minimal to nonexistent hole in the lungs only. The arrow continues on and impacts and stops either in ribs on the other side or the shoulder blade on the other side or in the part of the spine that Gordo is showing us in his picture. Just short of a pass through but far enough that there are no cutting edges to move causing further damage. Having the holes in the diaphragm and +/- the lungs placed that way would not cause the "sucking chest wound' you described in your other post that causes a collapse of the lung(s) and eventual death. The arrow and the bleeding from the diaphragm tissue could potentially close off the wound enough to not cause problems.

Brock, the doe you finished with a knife that had holes in the tops of both lungs could be explained by a fairly complex physiologic explanation. Basically, the top portions of your lungs get more air then blood supply. The middle section of your lungs get an equal amount of air and blood supply and the bottoms of your lungs get more blood and not as much air. This is all when you take a breath. So....in theory (and this is purely physiologic theory which does work but not perfectly) you could put a hole in the top of the deer's lungs and it would not bleed much if at all b/c that area does not get much if any blood supply.

I could go into more depth but I don't want to dive too deeply and the underlying ideas are La'Places rule of compliance along with the pressures of blood flow through the pulmonary vasculature.