They have a new survey up asking about land access, shooting sports, small game etc. speak your mind fellas.
DOW Survey
- Thread starter CritterGitterToo
- Start date
What's small game. Ain't heard those words spoken around these parts in years
Bigcountry40
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I think its midget deer because in western ohio, grain farmer have cut down every weed, brush pile, head-row known to man. #poor farmers:horse:
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Well if you have decimated the deer population to the point that people are quitting in droves, and you have no intentions of improving it, yet you still need that license revenue. Well then you have to try to do something to get people interested. Let them eat cake.
Bigcountry40
Member
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I don't blame DOW for the disappearance of small game, the blame sits solely on farmers destruction of habitat and lack of intervention from conservation groups such as pheasants forever, etc, etc. Hold banquets each, get millions in donation but care little about actually creating/maintaining habitat!
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Isn't it the department of Wildlifes job to manage wildlife. To include going after practices deemed detrimental to said wildlife. There was nothing stopping the DOW from putting presdure on the Department of Agriculture to pass legislation against some of these practices. I mean the overall protection of Wildlife Resources is their only function. It's the reason they were created and exist today. Sadly the only thing I have ever seen the DOW fight for is their pocketbook.
It is true that the DOW has seemingly never represented the term conservation. It really hacks me off. Also, why don't supposed conservation groups like pheasants forever, white tails unlimited and the NWTF do anything about it? You never see one of these groups organize their membership and show up at an open house and raise hell. I know the open house meetings are generally a dog and pony show, but these organizations if they just made an effort could at least get noticed! Where is our beloved OBA. I'm sure they'll get organized. * eye roll *
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No why would a conversation group composed of farmers, and hunters who need for farmers for hunting access, organize and fight against practices that put more money in farmers pockets?!? God Bless the farmer, but Jesus H fellas, could ya leave a little cover for the wildlife?!? Even around here, nearly every farmer is tearing out fence rows, cleaning out creeks/ditches, and generally destroying every field edge just to gain 4-6 more rows of production. It sucks to see.
Don't come down too hard on the farmers. As a going business they invest 100's of thousands of dollars to buy land, then invest 100's of thousands of dollars on farm equipment. On top of this they have to pay 10's of thousands on RE taxes each year and then there is the payments on the loans taken out to invest in the farm land and equipment.
Plus as farmers get larger acres of land there is just so many hours in the day and to save time there goes the old fence rows no longer used.
They do need every extra extra dollar to cover these expenses.
Then expect the farmer land owner to open up their property to exposure of possible dickheads who expects to hunt free. Plus the good chance to have everything damaged at their expense.
Don't get me wrong 99.99% of hunters are good people and do no damage. But that .01% of jerks that do destroy things or causes problems ruins it for the other 99.99%.
I know this on a smaller scale being a small time farmer-rancher. It's tough out here and most of the time it makes no sense to do it. Just ask my family as I loose money every year living my dreams. I'm in it for myself and my immediate family and everyone else is left out in the cold.
If I think this way on a small scale just what is a larger farmer thinking when he has millions at stake.
FYI
My RE taxes and Insurance are over $5 K per year. That's $750 per month. There goes the new car or even 2 cars payments per month for the deserving wife of 53 yrs. No expensive vacations, or many things other people have. But it's a choice we made and enjoy and no one is going to get a chance of ruining it for us. But we are doing damn well and owe nothing to anyone so what's mine is going to stay mine.
Plus as farmers get larger acres of land there is just so many hours in the day and to save time there goes the old fence rows no longer used.
They do need every extra extra dollar to cover these expenses.
Then expect the farmer land owner to open up their property to exposure of possible dickheads who expects to hunt free. Plus the good chance to have everything damaged at their expense.
Don't get me wrong 99.99% of hunters are good people and do no damage. But that .01% of jerks that do destroy things or causes problems ruins it for the other 99.99%.
I know this on a smaller scale being a small time farmer-rancher. It's tough out here and most of the time it makes no sense to do it. Just ask my family as I loose money every year living my dreams. I'm in it for myself and my immediate family and everyone else is left out in the cold.
If I think this way on a small scale just what is a larger farmer thinking when he has millions at stake.
FYI
My RE taxes and Insurance are over $5 K per year. That's $750 per month. There goes the new car or even 2 cars payments per month for the deserving wife of 53 yrs. No expensive vacations, or many things other people have. But it's a choice we made and enjoy and no one is going to get a chance of ruining it for us. But we are doing damn well and owe nothing to anyone so what's mine is going to stay mine.
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I'm not placing all the blame on farmers as I believe they're just a mechanism in a much larger machine that is Corporate Ag and the need to feed billions of people. However I'd like to see farmers have more awareness of what they are facilitating in hopes some would look past the almighty dollar. Just my personal politics for what they're worth.
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I think the main problem is a lot of farmers have the attitude of "I have to do what I have to do", or "my fence row isn't going to matter." Or " it's just a little bit of overspray" the problem arises when you begin to look at the collective whole and realize how much damage is actually being done. One termite doesn't do much damage at all, as a collective Colony however they are extremely destructive. Be it here in the north with massive expanses of corn and beans, or in the South with hardwood deforestation replanted with massive expanses of pine.
I realize the American Farmer has a hard row to hoe in today's age. Large corporate agriculture is slowly strangling the small farmer forcing him to seek out innovative ways to stay ahead of the curve. A lot of times in my opinion the means does not justify the end. Typically they're ripping out fence rows not to fit in a couple extra rows but to increase sunlight. With the fence row gone they may have an additional 30 minutes in the morning and thirty in the evening where sun is directly hitting the field. This more benefits the first dozen rows or so because the sun does not have to be high in the sky before they get sun. But the yield gains from doing it last I looked was extremely low. But therein lies the problem when you have farmers who constantly complain of being broke, every penny matters. Yet they never seem to have trouble paying an excavating company for two weeks work to rip it out. Hmmmm.
The farmer I used to hunt on had a small 150 acre field in a low-lying area. He told me that he planned to rip all of the trees out along a 400 yd section of creek because the Beavers kept flooding the field. Obviously not wanting this to happen I told him that I would trap them. I walked probably a solid mile of that Creek and never saw a sign of a single beaver. The reason the field flooded was because of seasonal spring rains, and it didn't happen every year. Two years ago he paid an excavating company to come in and rip out all of the trees on his side of the creek. The trees across the creek on the other property or still standing. To me this served absolutely zero purpose whatsoever and his original reasoning was quite stupid.
You can't be serious.
I suppose you know nothing about the deer population in the early half of the 1900's. Or the turkey population. Hmm... I wonder who spearheaded those conservation efforts? You know we can actually hunt those critters these days. Just a couple generations ago that wasn't the case. I wonder who keeps the balance between recreational and commercial fishing on Lake Erie? I wonder who stocks all those soon-to-be monster steelhead in the Lake Erie tributaries? And on and on and on...
Sure, there's plenty of screw ups and examples of mismanagement along the way too. No one is ever immune to that. But to say the DOW has "never represented the term conservation" is just completely ridiculous.
Ohio built a hell of a deer population once before by management. To sit here and say they don't manage is a lie. I agree, the last ten years has been a slaughterhouse on deer. That didn't happen on accident... They are managing the hell out of the deer herd, just not to my liking at this time.
I didn't say they don't manage. I said they don't represent conservation. There is a difference.
I look at it different to. In 1900 or so there was ZERO deer in Ohio. The DOW decided to bring them back. In 1962 when a buck crossed the road in front of our school bus it was wrote up in the paper as big news.
Fast forward to 1970's there was still few deer in most parts of Ohio. In 1972 when I took my 1st Ohio deer only 6000 or less was take the entire season. In 1976 when I moved to Butler County SW Ohio there was no gun season in the county. In order to hunt deer we went to Athens to hunt.
Fast forward to about 2010 over 200,000 deer are harvest in Ohio.
Now only 185,000 are harvest each season.
Right or wrong the DOW must have determined the numbers were too high for most areas. Of course with the high deer numbers in the recent past more hunters came in to the circle and took deer. This caused over kill in some areas.
I really don't see the sky falling around us with over 185,000 deer harvested each season. It seems to me this harvest numbers have held steady the last couple of years.
But this is not what most hunters want to see but want the deer numbers back up to the early 2000 time period. I don't see it happening.
The sky hasn't fallen just got a little dark.
Can the DOW do better, sure but it takes time and let's see what the new management does in the future.
Fast forward to 1970's there was still few deer in most parts of Ohio. In 1972 when I took my 1st Ohio deer only 6000 or less was take the entire season. In 1976 when I moved to Butler County SW Ohio there was no gun season in the county. In order to hunt deer we went to Athens to hunt.
Fast forward to about 2010 over 200,000 deer are harvest in Ohio.
Now only 185,000 are harvest each season.
Right or wrong the DOW must have determined the numbers were too high for most areas. Of course with the high deer numbers in the recent past more hunters came in to the circle and took deer. This caused over kill in some areas.
I really don't see the sky falling around us with over 185,000 deer harvested each season. It seems to me this harvest numbers have held steady the last couple of years.
But this is not what most hunters want to see but want the deer numbers back up to the early 2000 time period. I don't see it happening.
The sky hasn't fallen just got a little dark.
Can the DOW do better, sure but it takes time and let's see what the new management does in the future.
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I don't give them that much credit for the growth of deer since 1900 until today anymore than i give them credit for the growth of the coyote, European Starling, bighead carp, or any other species that grew through breeding in the wild. Deer are highly adaptive and highly prolific animals. They let some deer go and made laws to make sure less were killed than lived. Not exactly rocket science, the deer and turkey pretty much did it all themselves after being released.
History of deer management in Ohio.
Release some deer.
Grow population. = limit kill.
Lower population. = raise limit.
Too many ideas and opinions so all will not agree on anything.
In my lifetime of deer hunting in Ohio I've went through never seeing a deer in several days of hunting.
Then now during the rut I seen 18 bucks chasing does in one day and didn't hunt couple hours at noon time.
For what it is I'll take today's deer hunting over what I went through in my early years.
So to me deer hunting in Ohio is damn good now. But I must admit I've created my own little honey hole of deer hunting through great expense and time on my part.
In my lifetime of deer hunting in Ohio I've went through never seeing a deer in several days of hunting.
Then now during the rut I seen 18 bucks chasing does in one day and didn't hunt couple hours at noon time.
For what it is I'll take today's deer hunting over what I went through in my early years.
So to me deer hunting in Ohio is damn good now. But I must admit I've created my own little honey hole of deer hunting through great expense and time on my part.