Archertl
Senior Member
We don't have the out of control debates on this site that other forums do. Everyone here is level headed so we can discuse subjects of intrest and move on. Its fine that you brought it up.
Could you kill these?
- Thread starter MandRroofing
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We don't have the out of control debates on this site that other forums do. Everyone here is level headed so we can discuse subjects of intrest and move on. Its fine that you brought it up.
OK, I'll try not to make anyone angry but there was a good article in Quality Deer Management Magazine about coyotes. It said they had a 10 square mile home range and they were like wolves, in that they had a pack structure. That means they had a population limit and they maintained it by killing other coyotes and pups that interloped. It said if you start killing them the female compensated by having more pups and it was better to let them alone as killing a few had no impact on the population. It also said they had a small effect on deer numbers. The only time they saw significant deer hair in coyote scat was fawning period and gun season. Makes sense. Ole coyote don't know when fawning season is, he is just out huntin and jumps one now an then. It said if you wanted more fawns to survive, give them more cover (calm down with the brushhog) And gun season the tail shooters keep them well fed. So our deer population is doing fine by the numbers killed and messin up cars. So I think theres room for ole wiley coyote. Yeah kill one when you get a chance and hopefully use his hide. But be glad we got a top predator in the ecosystem even if he is eatin some other stuff.
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Yeah. Jesse was just making light that in the past on other forums such a topic would inevitably explode. Here. Well we just get along. I've killed them with a knife, a dragging strap. Hell even tried unsuccessfully with a 4 cell maglight. None of them were pretty and given the choice I would shoot them instead.
I will have to disagree. Not angry or upset. Just not buying it. I do not doubt there are some hunters that might not recover their deer before coyotes get to it. There are probably slobs that leave some lay for the coyotes. I just don't know if I can agree the coyotes will self regulate their population. They are opportunistic. For this reason I believe they will eat all the fawns they can find as well as every wounded or not recovered deer. I also believe they will try to take down yearlings, sick, injured, or old deer. I KNOW they will attack pets. I have little faith in many publications though. I can't help but wonder if there was not another agenda guiding an article like this? Call me a cynic or naysayer. I am willing to admit if I am wrong. I am not saying I am right. I just don't know if I am buying it right now. I guess time will tell.
I didn't say you or anybody else was blood thirsty.....I said in MY bloodthirsty days......back when I was about your age or younger. I have no problem with anybody killing them (baby coyotes), just not my cup of tea right now. I know where there is a den of them along the road not far from my house right now, but have no urge to kill a baby. Come this winter then I will shoot the piss out of them and do whatever it takes to kill one and save them for hunting when they are ripe.
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I'm not sure I like stuff being inserted into my post. It looks like I said it. Anyway, not being a biologist, I try to think things through the best I can and not ass-u-me anything. I know that when I started hunting deer, 1 in 20 got one. Now they're thick as fleas. So getting a little help from coyotes might not be such a bad thing. Overpopulated deer is not good. As far as coyote numbers and population dynamics, I'll leave it up to the experts, but it don't make sense that they will take over and start eating us. As far as pets, what is fluffy doin out there? Feral cats and free ranging dogs are a huge problem. Habitat loss is probably the biggest though. We pretty much got the whole world mowed down to nothin. It's not brush, it's a baby forest.
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Nobody edited your post or inserted anything.. The only edit is the one you did Today at 01:10 AM. And there are more deer now than in the 70's, but that doesn't mean they're overpopulated. As for stray cats.. I give them the same medicine i give the yotes. The same with dogs i catch running deer on my lease after people drop them off on the gravel rd. Rarely will you find me in the woods doing anything without my .22 rifle.
Hicks simply inserted a response in your post, and made his response a different color so it'd be easy to see that it was a response from him. Maybe it wasn't as clear as it was intended to be. Nobody around here edit's someone else's posts, unless they're playing a joke on them of course. lol
I would also agree about feral cats and wild or free ranging dogs being a problem. When our boxer was attacked several years ago, he was in our yard. We have an invisible fence, he was neutered, up on his shots, and well taken care of. However, coyotes will go after a pet or livestock when there is a hard freeze/snow on the ground/food is scarce, etc. 200 sutures later, Niles recovered just fine only to die at a later date of other causes (RIP Niles). My main point was: Can we trust this as reliable information from biologists, speculation, or opinion? Sometimes well intended plans or management actions do not work out as well as they looked on paper when initial goals were established. I fully believe the media gives the public a skewed perspective on politics, wars, finances, etc. I don't think it is too far fetched to believe an article could have been printed with misleading propaganda even in the QDMA magazine. Just my opinion.
Sorry if you took my post wrong. It was not my intention to change your post or put words in your mouth, or twist what you were saying in any way, shape, or form.
Yep, no worries man. I've seen that topic take on the feel of an abortion debate elsewhere. That won't happen here.
And like Tom said, it is amazing how easy it is nearly cut a head off if you're a little excited and have a sharp knife! I doubt I do it again, but at the time, it was pure adrenaline and the only thing on my mind was to end it ASAP.
I see and ok. Sorry about your dog. I have three schnauzers and it is a concern since there is a healthy coyote population here. Thanks for the good discussion.
Huckleberry Finn
Senior Member
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wdbak,
I get your every animal has a place thinking, and I reckon that it might be admirable...but is there anything that doesn't fit it in that scheme of thinking? Groundhog's don't (other thread). Coyote's don't (this thread). So, in your mind, is there such a thing as varmints?
I get your every animal has a place thinking, and I reckon that it might be admirable...but is there anything that doesn't fit it in that scheme of thinking? Groundhog's don't (other thread). Coyote's don't (this thread). So, in your mind, is there such a thing as varmints?
Huck... I'm of the same opinion that coyotes are varmints... But to play devil's advocate, you have to look at the big picture. The presence or absence of a predator in an ecosystem doesn't just effect a "few" critters. It goes way beyond that. Let's just say for example we erradicate all the coyotes. ANY species of prey that coyotes eat will more than likely increase in population... the vast majority of these prey are herbivores. Ok so our herbivore population skyrockets... What's next? More than likely you'd see a decrease in abundance and variety of vegetation... woody browse, forbes, grasses, etc. Obviously the herbivores start suffering due to a lack of food, but what else? What about all the insects that are dependent on the different types of vegetation? Those insects are at the base of the food chains of many species of larger insects, and of many species of birds. Kill those and birds of prey then suffer... and so on and so forth. Dude you could go on with this all day.
Yea, it's a dramatization, but it's still reality and absolutely a possibility. Even though it may not always seem like it, most critters have their place in the environment. If they didn't, the processes of evolution would halt their existence. You gotta remember, the term "varmint" only really applies to animals that negatively affect humans.... only because we have the intelligence to make such accusations. If you weren't a deer or rabbit or bird hunter, would you give a shit about the coyotes eating said deer or rabbits or birds? Would they still be a varmint? Not likely.
All that happy horse shit being said.... Kill every varmint coyote that you see. :smiley_bril:
Huckleberry Finn
Senior Member
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JB, there's no question that ecosystems need to balanced and that it's a question of perspective
Lundy
Member
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As I stated earlier I have no issues with your desire and willingness to shoot coyotes, pups or adults.
However I think some may have reasons that go beyond just doing their part to help control the coyote population to the benefit of other wildlife.
When you see posed pictures of the kills be it gun or bow it is past just varmint control it is the kill itself, not the reason for the kill, that brings on the pictures of conquest.
AGAIN, no issues here, I just don't totally buy the noble cause stuff. Some of you may get what I am saying, same may as they get older, say may never, that's all OK by me. Not passing judgement just expressing my opinion and views of how I read many of the responses to this thread.
However I think some may have reasons that go beyond just doing their part to help control the coyote population to the benefit of other wildlife.
When you see posed pictures of the kills be it gun or bow it is past just varmint control it is the kill itself, not the reason for the kill, that brings on the pictures of conquest.
AGAIN, no issues here, I just don't totally buy the noble cause stuff. Some of you may get what I am saying, same may as they get older, say may never, that's all OK by me. Not passing judgement just expressing my opinion and views of how I read many of the responses to this thread.
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I think everyone kills varmints because its fun with the added benefit of helping the balance. Those with vested interests like farmers probably see it as work. Just another thing that needs to be done. Either way you order the fun and benifit, or benifit and fun, the results are the same. The pictures are to showcase the fun side of it, however this does not diminish the benefit. It's complementary. If it were fun and not beneficial it would be illegal. Like dynamite fishing. If it were beneficial and not fun it would be someone job where they're paid to do it.
I'll be honest. I took a picture for the simple fact that I KNEW it would get people's goats. But that is not the reason I sent that round flying. I personally find it laughable that anyone knowing the benefit of doing it would get huffy over it. I see coyotes as worthless varmints, he'll, i wish it were legal to poison them. Do I get some sick gratification from killing them. No. But I am happy that I saved 20+ fawns over its ended lifetime and stopped it from breeding.
Sources say a breeding pair can wipe out 12+ fawns a year. Let's say they live 4 years. If I wipe out a den of 8 pups. I potentially saved over 200 fawns in the next 4 years. now that brother I find gratification in.
I'll be honest. I took a picture for the simple fact that I KNEW it would get people's goats. But that is not the reason I sent that round flying. I personally find it laughable that anyone knowing the benefit of doing it would get huffy over it. I see coyotes as worthless varmints, he'll, i wish it were legal to poison them. Do I get some sick gratification from killing them. No. But I am happy that I saved 20+ fawns over its ended lifetime and stopped it from breeding.
Sources say a breeding pair can wipe out 12+ fawns a year. Let's say they live 4 years. If I wipe out a den of 8 pups. I potentially saved over 200 fawns in the next 4 years. now that brother I find gratification in.
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Huck, First of all, I don't like the term "varmit", where did that come from? I could consider me a varmit if wanted to an maybe I should. Killin stuff and not thinkin about the effect on the big picture or why. Changin the habitiat to suit my whims. Why should coyotes, or groundhogs, or chimpmunks, or anything else someone decides don't belong here or don't "like" be wiped off the face of the earth? I'm just sayin that I get enjoyment out of all Gods critters and try not to mess up too much while I'm here and make this a better place for the next guy. This is the best forum ever.
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A varmint is literally defined as "a troublesome wild animal". A yote eating the deer I hunt, a groundhog eating my landowners beans and digging holes in fields, a coon tearing down corn, a chipmunk undermining my foundation, a squirrel in my attic, and even a deer in my garden. Can all be considered varmints. Some don't bother much, like a squirrel in the woods. Or a coon in a swamp. For others their mere existence is being a varmint. No matter what a yote will eat fawns, cats and dogs. No matter what a groundhog will dig holes. And o matter what wild pigs will root up everything and kill browse. It is them that are true varmints and all are killable on sight. The others however aren't always varmints and it's a case by case basis and are therefor regulated on their killing.
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