Unless you've been under a rock for the past 4 or 5 years, it should be obvious that this ISN'T what's been occurring in Ohio.
Could you kill these?
- Thread starter MandRroofing
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Unless you've been under a rock for the past 4 or 5 years, it should be obvious that this ISN'T what's been occurring in Ohio.
When the facts are gathered or discovered, when they are disentangled and identified, when they are sifted and verified, when they are counted and measured, the real task of the scholar is not ended-it is not even begun, but only prepared for him. - MacIver.
No Mr. Brown, I live in the outdoors and see what's going on, plus there's always those pesky numbers. 1956, Deer season opened in all 88 Ohio counties. Kill- 3,911. 2012 kill-219,698. If you're having trouble killing a trophy buck in this state maybe you need to rethink your hunting tactics.
Yes, when you compare the kill stats of 2012 to those from 1956, it's a night and day difference. So what? From what I've seen, and from what I've heard from fellow outdoorsman, the coyote population in Ohio has really boomed in the past 5-10 years. Isn't it interesting that this coincides with the fact that our deer harvest numbers have been down for 3 or 4 years in a row? Sure, there are other factors involved... but to sit there and claim the coyote population has no effect on the deer herd is absurd. And besides any of that, what the hell does one's ability to kill a trophy buck in Ohio have to do with this conversation???
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We've had this discussion in depth and will begin it again here soon once some stuff comes back from the DNR.. Basic gist is "harvest numbers are not an accurate measure of population numbers".. And the population in the past 12 years IS declining.. With drastic declines in the past 3-4 seasons.
If you have 10 deer you can kill 4.. If you have 7 deer you can still kill 4.. Doesn't change the fact that you had a 30% population decline.
Before you begin casting your speculation on others members capabilities; I suggest you do some digging in the forums here and get up to speed on some very very lengthy fact and data backed discussions in regards to this subject.
You can start here and explain how Ohio has seen a -23% decline in Deer Vehicle accidents since 2002. http://www.theohiooutdoors.com/content.php?158-Deer-numbers.
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Let's say of the 50 yotes in the 10 square miles 10 of them are breeding females. You have just lost 150 fawns. That's not much? Sure seems to be.
Ok, I see what ur sayin but, if the all knowin odnr dosen't reduce bag limits on deer or protect brer groundhog, an brer fox, why even listen to them? Seems like it's full throttle on killin deer huh? Maybe those wildlife managers know a little more than you give them credit as far as deer. Personally, I think they're a little behind on woody and foxy. Sorry if I hit a sore spot about trophy bucks.
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I give them credit all the time, they know exactly what they're doing. They're just hoping they can play stupid and get it done before people figure it out. By then the reduced numbers will be accomplished. Sometimes it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission.
As for "trophy bucks". It's not a sore spot. We kill our fare share here.. What does get my goat is when someone starts making speculative claims about other members abilities with little knowledge of that person in an attempt to belittle them. If that's what you mean. Then apology accepted.
Sure coyotes have an effect, so do cars and tail shooters an slob hunters and poachers. But, less is more as far as deer herd health and quality. Talk to a farmer or insurance guy. I'm just sayin the deer hunting is super here in Ohio.
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Yes they all have an effect. One that has not been taken into consideration by our boys in green when looking at the herd. Again. We've been over this in great detail. Both from farmer attitude studies, Purdue university AG studies, and insurance claims and lobbying. If you prefer to continue I recommend you go catch up on the hundred or so pages we've discussed about it in the past. As for the less is more philosophy. Tell that to pa, mi, and wv after their dnr went down the same "kill more deer, less is more" road ours is heading down too.
No, what I meant was I could give you guys some free deer hunting and habitat advise if you need it. If you don't , then OK. Also, I think Diablo 54 can stick up for himself.
Uh, Sorry, I'm kinda new here and thought this was something we could talk about. I guess this has all been settled. I'll leave it up to the all knowing, all seeing, administrators now. Bye.
Wdbak, it really would be beneficial for you to look up this already discussed topic. Joes right, at the rate of the deer decline over the past 4 years and the unwillingness of the ODNR to listen to the hunter majority, we WILL be in the same boat as MI,PA and WV.
Since I can't find where you posted on the welcome forum anywhere, why don't you post some info about yourself. This site has alot to offer and home to many great guys.
Welcome to TOO!
Since I can't find where you posted on the welcome forum anywhere, why don't you post some info about yourself. This site has alot to offer and home to many great guys.
Welcome to TOO!
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Advise is always appreciated and what this place is all about. We have over 6,000 years of cumulative deer hunting knowledge represented here among our members. So feel free to throw in your two cents. What were not about is people making speculative claims about others members abilities. If we can keep the "you're just pissy because you can't kill big bucks and i can" attitude out of it then things go much better.
As for the topic. Sure you can talk about it all day. I'm suggesting you do some catching up on what we've already gone over in great detail. I nor anyone else here wants to repeat the same thousand posts of conversation to get one person up to speed. Most of what you've said already was covered pretty early and in through detail by many many members. If you want to go over this topic we have literally Tons of posts and information. Please go read it. Until then entertaining this any further is like showing up on the last day of a 5 day convention and wanting to debate the topics of day 1
It hasn't all been settled though. There is much more work left to do. I am currently awaiting the complete data from the odnr on the hunter survey they just completed. Until then we're in limbo depending on what the data says and how it fits into the model.
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Aw, U guys are the greatest, thanks for all the aplogies. Hugs for everyone. Ok, I'll stick around and mess with you all some more sometime but I promise to leave the coyote thing alone. Love, Bake.
You're right, the fewer the deer, the healthier they'll be... And you're also right that deer hunting in Ohio is super... That's because in the rural areas the deer population is nowhere near the carrying capacity of the land. Hell, even in Ohio's deer-filled suburbs you won't notice characteristics of poor herd health. If the deer population was skyrocketing, then yes, I'd admit that we would need coyotes to "give us a hand" with herd management... but right now, that's just not the case at all.
What a awfully nice gesture, wdbak. And to think, I was under the impression I would have to pay you for it. Good grief, man....
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I'm sure you already know what this is, since you've got so much advice to give, but here is a textbook predator-prey relationship:
It's cyclical. But, since deer and deer hunting is such a valuable resource for Ohio, we don't want our deer population to be cyclical... We want it to be stable. As it stands, we hunters aren't the only predators. So how can you manage the stability of a deer population if you're not managing ALL of the predators?
This is what we're looking for...
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welcome to too.
Bake.....That name rings a bell. Wasn't there a feller named Bake that kilt a huge clean 8 last fall? I remember seeing TC pics and dead deer pics of a super tall long tined 8 with nice mass but average to narrow spread. Would dat be you?
No, since you're a too buddy it would be free. But yeah i know all about the cycles. And yes stable is good but hunter numbers are dropping. We're a dying breed. You guys need to get off the coyote thing and find something else to "hate" how about starlings or multiflora rose or alanthis, or bush honeysuckle or feral cats or autmn olive, or 4 wheelers or 5 acre yards or habitat loss. Sorry jackalope, i backslid.You're right, the fewer the deer, the healthier they'll be... And you're also right that deer hunting in Ohio is super... That's because in the rural areas the deer population is nowhere near the carrying capacity of the land. @#!*% , even in Ohio's deer-filled suburbs you won't notice characteristics of poor herd health. If the deer population was skyrocketing, then yes, I'd admit that we would need coyotes to "give us a hand" with herd management... but right now, that's just not the case at all.
What a awfully nice gesture, wdbak. And to think, I was under the impression I would have to pay you for it. Good grief, man....
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I'm sure you already know what this is, since you've got so much advice to give, but here is a textbook predator-prey relationship:
It's cyclical. But, since deer and deer hunting is such a valuable resource for Ohio, we don't want our deer population to be cyclical... We want it to be stable. As it stands, we hunters aren't the only predators. So how can you manage the stability of a deer population if you're not managing ALL of the predators?
This is what we're looking for...