What's even worse is the shocking number of farmers who shoot the deer in the guts on purpose... so that they run off and die out of sight, out of mind.
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- Thread starter Ohiosam
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What's even worse is the shocking number of farmers who shoot the deer in the guts on purpose... so that they run off and die out of sight, out of mind.
I would never think of harvesting a deer without using 100% of the meat. I have too much love for the sport. The one farmer the state used me and my friend on was being destroyed by the deer damage. He had 200 ac. and 125 ac. was brush and woods. The deer taken feed alot of good people and nothing went to waste. Everytime we took a deer there was a guy there ready to process it.
Then the farmer went crazy on us and formed his own tribe of pouchers. Then my friend and I ran for the hills. We wanted nothing to do with the new system. Now the farm is a subdivision. It was a once in a life deer hunting heaven.
At that time 21 yrs ago I bought my own farm for me and my family hunting.
Frank
These are my 3 biggest complaints. I hunt the hell out coyotes whenever i get the chance. I wish NR fees would atleast double. I would love for a lottery system to come in for NR's. We have some of the best genetics and ground in the Midwest but the # of 1.5 year old bucks killed every year is way to high, and i totally agree a 3 deer maximum would be great as well!
I had a discussion with one of the ODNR people at the open house last year prior to meeting Jackalope. My in-laws have a working farm (cattle and crops) and have gotten crop damage permits in the past. At one time they were able to be used during gun season and it was great b/c we were able to get quite a few does on the ground, and process them and a lot of people got meat. Since then they have only been good during the summer months and its a royal PITA to process a deer in june or july. So I asked why they didn't allow them during normal hunting seasons anymore and if they were going to change that.
The answer I got pretty much made me sick. They said the crop damage permits were only to kill the deer and not use them for meat. I said but we dont' feel that way, and the ODNR guy made me feel like the bad guy for wanting to use the meat of all the deer we shot and not just shoot them and leave them. His almost exact words were if you were truly worried about crop damage you'd shoot the deer in june before they eat your crops all summer, otherwise you just want to hunt them more.
It was one of the many things that upset me about the open house last year.
Also, what Jackalope said about the hunters and farmers and crop damage permits is something I've been bringing up as an idea to the ODNR at open houses for at least 4 years now. I propose that the only way you can get crop damage permits is to allow deer hunting the year before. I also would LOVE to see the ODNR actually be for hunters rights and not allow municipalities to use the out of town sharpshooters to thin any deer herd. If you have a problem with deer, then the hunting community can help you with it, otherwise deal with it.
The answer I got pretty much made me sick. They said the crop damage permits were only to kill the deer and not use them for meat. I said but we dont' feel that way, and the ODNR guy made me feel like the bad guy for wanting to use the meat of all the deer we shot and not just shoot them and leave them. His almost exact words were if you were truly worried about crop damage you'd shoot the deer in june before they eat your crops all summer, otherwise you just want to hunt them more.
It was one of the many things that upset me about the open house last year.
Also, what Jackalope said about the hunters and farmers and crop damage permits is something I've been bringing up as an idea to the ODNR at open houses for at least 4 years now. I propose that the only way you can get crop damage permits is to allow deer hunting the year before. I also would LOVE to see the ODNR actually be for hunters rights and not allow municipalities to use the out of town sharpshooters to thin any deer herd. If you have a problem with deer, then the hunting community can help you with it, otherwise deal with it.
Lundy
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Eliminating all tags over 3 would have resulted in a reduction in the harvest in 2011 of 6028 deer total.
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Couple that with the elimination of Bonus gun which was adopted around the same time and it would reduce the harvest by about 26,000 and some change.
Lundy
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I don't think so.
You are making an assumption that those deer killed during the bonus gun would not be killed in another season. I don't agree with that premise.
I believe that those harvest numbers would shift to gun or to MZ and you would see little net reduction.
I'll use the previous year when Ohio had a 2 week long gun season as an example. The lengthened season had almost no impact on the total harvest it just spread it out slightly. When they reverted back to a one week season the next year the harvest stayed very similar it just condensed into the available days.
I just don't belive that days of opportunity will have a big impact on the harvest. The small percentage of successful hunters in this state will kill the number of deer they want in what ever number of days are alloted. The rest of the hunters that never kill a deer won't kill one no matter what you do with the season or length.
In my group, My daughter -in law , my son and the guy that hunts with me did not shoot their deer during the gun season. The elected to wait until the 2 day or MZ. It wasn't that they didn't have a chance to kill one during the gun, they had multiple chances. If the ODNR did not provide for the 2 day or MZ there would have been at least 3 more killed last week during the regular gun. They will each kill a deer this year, it's just when they kill them that is in question.
Lundy
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You might be able to prove your theory at least partially if you can show that the hunter success rate as a whole was less prior to the 2 day Bonus gun being introduced.
If the hunter success rate increased due to added days of opportunity then some of the 2 day bonus harvest could reasonably be expected to go away with it's elimination. If not..........
If the hunter success rate increased due to added days of opportunity then some of the 2 day bonus harvest could reasonably be expected to go away with it's elimination. If not..........
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Point taken, however it doesn't hold much water. The reason the DOW went to a split or ''bonus" weekend vs a two week shotgun season is because of the imprtance of "opening days". It doesn't matter how long a season is, people only get excited about the opening day of that season, and therefore head to the woods. When more "opening days" are provided, more deer are killed. If I recall, the year we had a two week shotgun season, only 6% of the total kill was taken during the second week. I remember that I killed a nice 8 point on the last Saturday of that season, and aside from myself and the two guys with me I did not see another hunter.
Lundy
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Brock,
Are you sayin that my group is not typical? That they wouldn't not have killed deer last week if they didn't have the 2 day and MZ to kill a deer? That they will not kill a deer this year?
That the only reason the hunters are successful during the 2 day is because of expanded opportunity, that they would not kill a deer without those 2 days?
Are you sayin that my group is not typical? That they wouldn't not have killed deer last week if they didn't have the 2 day and MZ to kill a deer? That they will not kill a deer this year?
That the only reason the hunters are successful during the 2 day is because of expanded opportunity, that they would not kill a deer without those 2 days?
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I will say your group is NOT typical. I would venture to guess that your group is likely a bit more particular in what they shoot than is the average. The vast majority of hunters (IMO, of course) are out hunting deer, not particular deer, or even a certain age or "class" of deer.
Epanded opportunity is the biggest killer of deer. For some measure of proof, simply look at the numbers for 2001, and 2002. In 2002, Sunday hunting was added. For many, that additional singel day of gun hunting doubled their opportunity (weekend only hunters). The same can be said for many bowhunters that had previously only had Saturdays to hunt. I would venture to guess that the addition of Sunday hunting is one reason we no longer see the number of hunters taking off the entire week of gun season to hunt...why would they when they can hunt four weekend days with a shotgun? For most, I'll assume four days is enough.
If it is your belief (and I think you are playing devil's advocate here), that expanded opportunity does not equal higher success, why don't we just start gun season the last Saturday on September and end it sometime the first week of February?
Deer used to have it made if they made it through shotgun season. Sure, we had Muzzleloader season, but it was three days, always Thur, Fri, and Sat, and it was around the first or second week in January. There were very few late season bowhunter, and baiting was illegal. None of that is the case these days. Our muzzleloaders go bang when we pull the trigger now, and they shoot accurately at 200yds. Late season bowhunting is now fairly popular as people know how effective a pile of corn is once the snow flies and the temps drop. We kill more deer in January with a bow now than we did the entire season when I started hunting.
I doubt your group would be classified as typical, and they would have killed a deer if the chose to the first 7 days of gun season I'm sure...but many that will die next weekend would have not if it weren't for the additional days.
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Lol. Lundy. Man. I know youre not trying to imply the DNR added the bonus gun "just for funs." and had zero intention of increasing harvest through increased opertunity. Even with its addition today we are killing less deer than we did back then. Logic would dictate that removal of the season would equate to even less dear being killed today.
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Sad thing is to me it doesn't seem that long ago for some reason, but I think it was. Heck, I mistakenly think Y2k was just a couple of years ago. 
I don't specifically remember hunting the 2 week season so it was before 99 (when I graduated h.s. and got more serious about hunting in general).
I agree with Lundy though I don't think many on this website are the stereotypical hunter b/c I would have and easily could have taken my limit in zone B during my limited hunting in gun season and am holding out for muzzleloading when I will have the time to properly process and take care of my deer for meat. Hopefully I will also stumble across a lovely Ohio Big Buck class buck but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
I agree with Lundy though I don't think many on this website are the stereotypical hunter b/c I would have and easily could have taken my limit in zone B during my limited hunting in gun season and am holding out for muzzleloading when I will have the time to properly process and take care of my deer for meat. Hopefully I will also stumble across a lovely Ohio Big Buck class buck but I'm not holding my breath on that one.