Gun Wounds

[Lundy]

Another thread discussing if a picture of a deer with a wound was a gun wound or not prompted me to share with you something that occurred this year where I hunt.

The owners grandson shot a doe at approx 30 yds with a MZ, with a powerbelt on the Sunday of the first gun season

Hard for many to look at this wound and think it is a gun wound. This happens when a bullet explodes on impact when hitting bone. The intent is not to get into a big bullet debate, but I by choice have never shot powerbelts and don't ever expect to.

The point is much more about gun shot wounds can take on many different shapes and sizes based upon location, skin tautness, bullet path, weight retention, entry/exit.

This deer was still alive on January 5 for sure, won't know about after that until I pull cards next week. I also have a picture of her just a few days after the she was shot.

Date on picture is obviously wrong

 

[bowhunter1023]

They are tough creatures that's for sure!

I shoot Powerbelts and have never had that problem before. The shot was high, so who know how it would have "impacted" the performance of other bullets. Regardless, it is a good visual of how strange things can happen when shooting deer...

 

[Lundy]

Yes, I know there are a lot of powerbelt fans that have had success. That's why they make more than one bullet so everyone can make their own choices

Again more about wound appearance than bullets

 

[Big_Holla]

Big wound that's for sure, looks to be a glancing blow. What was the shot angle he took? Just my guess but it looks as if it was facing him, slightly quartering to? Just read a post the other day on Powerbelts and that the person had a problem with the bullet coming loose from the ring and falling out of the barrel. I have never shot them over the years as I have stuck to Hornady JHP w/ sabot.

 

[Lundy]

Slightly downhill shot quartering towards him, but that is from a 14 year old kid memory in the heat of battle.

I have blown up some of the pictures and it looks like the bullet impacted the tip of the shoulder bone and turned into a grenade. You can clearly see the bone when you enlarge the picture. I have seen plenty of these type wounds on deer in pictures shot with a bullets that just don't stay together well. Bullet design is critical to performance especially on a marginal shot location

A bunch of guys with smokeless MZ's were shooting with the 250 grain SST or Shockwaves would get these same huge explosive entry holes. The bullets just didn't hold up well at those velocities and a marginal hit on bone.

 

[brock ratcliff]

I think Mike or someone here had a bullet blow to pieces on entry this year or last also. Huge splatter wound on entry, but I can't recall who's it was. I think it was a Remington Copper Solid though.

 

[Schu72]

Seth had a doe that looked like it was shot with a cannon.

 

[brock ratcliff]

Maybe that's who it was...

 

[Fullbore]

IMO, some bullets are just better than others. Basically, shot placement is the biggest factor. Just saying.

 

[MK111]

Like you stated I don't want to start a bullet type battle here.
When Ohio decided to permit handgun hunting pistol jacket bullets were not reliable on expansion. I decided to use solid lead bullets and have done so on 23 deer with no problem. You don't have to worry about what we see here as you will have complete pass through.
I always figured with a 44 caliber hole I don't need or see a reason for more expansion. Besides 2 holes bleed better than one hole. And the thought of the bullet dumping all the energy in the deer body doesn't hole water with me because in my mind if the bullet stopped there is no energy left.
Just my thoughts but what the hell to I know.
Frank

 

[Ohiosam]

Shoot enough bullets or arrows at deer and you'll get your occasional "I can't believe that". Like the pic of the doe I posted with the Xbow bolt through it's head. I've seen deer hit bad drop quick, I've seen deer hit good go unbelievable distances.

One of the gun rags reported years ago about a guy getting shot in the forehead with a .44 mag. Supposedly the bullet just glanced up his forehead leaving a furrow and terrible headache but no real damage.

 

[finelyshedded]

That's one tough doe! You can easily see the hole and bone. What caused the hair around the entry to look like that? Slug fragmentation?

 

[Lundy]

That's one tough doe! You can easily see the hole and bone. What caused the hair around the entry to look like that? Slug fragmentation?

Yes, some bullets have a tendency to fragment based upon the velocity and what and where they make contact. The stored energy has to go somewhere. If It can't continue forward because it hits an object that stops it it will go wherever it can. It the bullet fragments in that process it makes for big ugly wounds that do not penetrate deeply. There is a long well documented history of this type of bullet failure from one manufacturer. However this is also one of the most popular bullets used in MZ today. Is the very high number of failures attributed to just the shear volume of them used or a very poor bullet. I think it is a combination of both.

When someone selects a bullet to perform it's intended job, they need to consider that animal they intend to shoot, anticipated range, velocity, BC, retained energy, accuracy, bullet construction for weight retention and penetration and then and only then the ease of loading.

Far too many make their MZ bullet selection based first and only on ease of loading.

My opinion

 

[hickslawns]

No doubt bullets do crazy things sometimes. I know a guy that shot a pigeon on the ground. It was in front of his barn. 220 swift left a ring up above the garage door that looked like Saturn ring but in blood. How in the world does a bird shot on the ground leave a ring of blood 10' up the wall? Crazy! Those velocities can do whacky stuff.

 

[oakswamper]

No doubt bullets do crazy things sometimes. I know a guy that shot a pigeon on the ground. It was in front of his barn. 220 swift left a ring up above the garage door that looked like Saturn ring but in blood. How in the world does a bird shot on the ground leave a ring of blood 10' up the wall? Crazy! Those velocities can do whacky stuff.

.220 swift for pigeon made me lol, but that swift is crazy fast so I could see it happening

 

[brock ratcliff]

Yes, some bullets have a tendency to fragment based upon the velocity and what and where they make contact. The stored energy has to go somewhere. If It can't continue forward because it hits an object that stops it it will go wherever it can. It the bullet fragments in that process it makes for big ugly wounds that do not penetrate deeply. There is a long well documented history of this type of bullet failure from one manufacturer. However this is also one of the most popular bullets used in MZ today. Is the very high number of failures attributed to just the shear volume of them used or a very poor bullet. I think it is a combination of both.

When someone selects a bullet to perform it's intended job, they need to consider that animal they intend to shoot, anticipated range, velocity, BC, retained energy, accuracy, bullet construction for weight retention and penetration and then and only then the ease of loading.

Far too many make their MZ bullet selection based first and only on ease of loading.

My opinion

I'm guilty of this. I love powerbelts because they load easy, and hit where I aim. I haven't had any issues yet with poor bullet performance, but I'm not shooting them at 2700+fps either! I have been really impressed with the damage they have done to the handful of deer I have shot with them.

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

I think Mike or someone here had a bullet blow to pieces on entry this year or last also. Huge splatter wound on entry, but I can't recall who's it was. I think it was a Remington Copper Solid though.

http://www.theohiooutdoors.com/showthread.php?6399-So-what-happened-here

You're correct.

 

[hickslawns]

.220 swift for pigeon made me lol, but that swift is crazy fast so I could see it happening

Yeah. I know. Wasn't me. lol My buddy said he picked it up by a wing, raised his arm up shoulder level, and the rest of it was still on the ground. I don't know if I believe all that but I believe it did leave crazy blood patterns. That bullet was spinning crazy fast at a small target.

 

[Hedgelj]

I shoot XTPs in my Muzzleloader and I know that if the shot is close (and I mean the deer should have powder burns on their hair close) I have to be very precise b/c the bullet and the jacket separate and while the wound channel is impressive, I don't want to wound one and not be able to get it. I'm also pushing the bullet at near or just above its maximum recommended velocity per the manufacturer.

The button I got on the first day this year was shot at probably 10 feet at the most and it had an orange sized entrance wound with rips in the muscles around the entrance wound that we noticed after we skinned it and while butchering it out. The doe I got I shot at about 30 yards and it was a perfect entrance wound, and then large exit wound. I love the XTPs because they put a heckuva nice hole but that is also a bad thing if shot placement is not good.

 

[Bigslam51]

I shot a button buck with my bow this year from the ground. When I found it dead it had a wound just like the doe in the pic, only it was oozing pus and was very infected and bone was visible. I was pretty pissed cause it would of been good eating. But at least I killed it and not the yotes. They did get a free meal though.