Let's talk about RELOADING, particularly about TUMBLING

[MK111]

Gee I don't want to throw a wet towel so to speak on this topic. Been selling reloading equipment for 26 yrs and reloading for 45 yrs.
All is needed is clean brass for reloading. No need for pretty shiney brass just remove the dirt so you don't scratch and ruin you dies.
Any tumbler with any dry media will work. Just add a media agent for faster cleaning. About one hour time is all that's need to remove the dirt. In my mind walnut doesn't do a better job or is faster as I only want to remove the dirt and don't need shiney new looking brass. Hell you gun won't know the differance anyway. If shiney turns you on well just go for it.
Forget about cleaning the flash holes. If you decap the primer 1st you just ran a dirty case through your die and risked ruining the die. If you do decap 1st then you will end up with a piece of media in every damn flash hole you will have to pick out.
We sell used brass and use a cement mixer and the brass comes out looking near new with dry media with a activator added.
I would never use or sell jewler rouge. I wouldn't even give it free to a enemy (well maybe couple). The damn stuff never really comes off the brass and about 10,000 rounds run through a carbide die will polish the carbide die oversize and cause function problems.
Don't mean to step on any toes but 45 yrs of reloading and selling the equipment I have picked up a lot of good ideas. But hey if it works for you another way go for it.
The best reloading press for the hobby reloader would have to be the Lee Turret 4 hole press. You can use it as a single stage press and when used as a semi-progressive press you can load 200-300 per hour. The quality of the ammo is the same.
I load all my ammo on a Dillon 1050 and can load 1000 per hour of 223 Rem. and get sub one inch accuracy. Pistol ammo is done on a Dillon 550 and can load 400 per hour. I use a Dillon 650 on larger rifle and get sub one inch accuracy.
I need quality and quanity in ammo reloading. And I have found it.

 

[Dannmann801]

So what you're saying is rule #1 (other than all the safety stuff) is never put a dirty piece of brass in your press/die -
And the other thing I'm hearing from you is that dry tumbling with corncob media is all that is really necessary.
You say DO NOT use jewelers rouge as an additive, and that kinda makes sense to me, (as we use it at work to polish plastic and the waxy residue is just that - residue - that covers everything else in the area). So what DO you recommend as an additive - anything?

 

[Jackalope]

Gee I don't want to throw a wet towel so to speak on this topic. Been selling reloading equipment for 26 yrs and reloading for 45 yrs.
All is needed is clean brass for reloading. No need for pretty shiney brass just remove the dirt so you don't scratch and ruin you dies.
Any tumbler with any dry media will work. Just add a media agent for faster cleaning. About one hour time is all that's need to remove the dirt. In my mind walnut doesn't do a better job or is faster as I only want to remove the dirt and don't need shiney new looking brass. Hell you gun won't know the differance anyway. If shiney turns you on well just go for it.
Forget about cleaning the flash holes. If you decap the primer 1st you just ran a dirty case through your die and risked ruining the die. If you do decap 1st then you will end up with a piece of media in every damn flash hole you will have to pick out.
We sell used brass and use a cement mixer and the brass comes out looking near new with dry media with a activator added.
I would never use or sell jewler rouge. I wouldn't even give it free to a enemy (well maybe couple). The damn stuff never really comes off the brass and about 10,000 rounds run through a carbide die will polish the carbide die oversize and cause function problems.
Don't mean to step on any toes but 45 yrs of reloading and selling the equipment I have picked up a lot of good ideas. But hey if it works for you another way go for it.
The best reloading press for the hobby reloader would have to be the Lee Turret 4 hole press. You can use it as a single stage press and when used as a semi-progressive press you can load 200-300 per hour. The quality of the ammo is the same.
I load all my ammo on a Dillon 1050 and can load 1000 per hour of 223 Rem. and get sub one inch accuracy. Pistol ammo is done on a Dillon 550 and can load 400 per hour. I use a Dillon 650 on larger rifle and get sub one inch accuracy.
I need quality and quanity in ammo reloading. And I have found it.

This is what makes this place so great. Someone has a question and someone else has the "heres the deal" answer based on experience. Thanks for your post.

 

[Fullbore]

Yep! My sentiments, exactly.

 

["J"]

Great post frank and agree with everything you said.... The only reason we're using walnut is because we inherited a 10 gallon drum of it... lol

 

[Dannmann801]

This looks like the rig Beenie is gonna make, a little rougher around the edges -
A hand mixer isn't quite as elegant as his motor...

[video=youtube;32ZjVNk83jA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32ZjVNk83jA[/video]

 

[MK111]

So what you're saying is rule #1 (other than all the safety stuff) is never put a dirty piece of brass in your press/die -
And the other thing I'm hearing from you is that dry tumbling with corncob media is all that is really necessary.
You say DO NOT use jewelers rouge as an additive, and that kinda makes sense to me, (as we use it at work to polish plastic and the waxy residue is just that - residue - that covers everything else in the area). So what DO you recommend as an additive - anything?

Yes to all 3 questions.
Lyman, Midway, Dillon all make a additive. But you can't use the same additive with corncob and walnut. Walnut being hard won't soak in the additive.
I have always used corncob and probaly have sold 50 tons of it over the years. We buy 2000 lbs loads. We also sell walnut because of customer request but never and I say never sell jewler rouge.
Berry's sell a additive that is the same as Dillon without the blue color. And that's what I use.
We have always went by the policy if I didn't use it and didn't like it never sell it. That way you don't have to answer to customers. Doing gunshows every week we always see the customer again.

 

[Beentown]

That little one does a great job. Thanks for posting Dan.

Harbor Freight has a great little 6 pound capacity wet tumbler for $50. I may buy both types and do some side by side.

All the brass I have purchased has came clean/tumbled so I haven't had to purchase right away.

 

[Dannmann801]

Dammit.... now I gotta make a choice

1) Make my own
2) This Lyman tumbler looks like a good deal on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-7631318...8496&sr=8-1&keywords=brass+tumblers+reloading
3) This Frankford Arsenal kit from Midway http://www.midwayusa.com/product/41...th-quick-n-ez-rotary-media-separator-110-volt

Both the Lyman and Frankford only have a 1 year warranty. The Frankford kit looks like a better "deal" even though they'll charge shipping. I like buying from Midway, always good experiences there.

But I don't think I can buy one unless I try to make my own first :smiley_depressive:
<sigh>

Dammit dan just make up your mind
Oops typing out loud again

 

[MK111]

Dan my son should have a tumbler kit at the Dayton gunshow this weekend. It's a Smart Reloading tumbler out of Italy but they have sold 100's of them and they give you free media to set it up.

 

[Beentown]

Hey Frank,

What are your steps when reloading rifle brass? Pistol?

Here are my plans when I get started back up:

Pistol

- Tumble
- Deprime/Size/Prime (all in one pull, Lee Classic Turret)
- Powder
- Bullet seat
- Factory Crimp

Rifle

Using dry media for tumbling:

- Tumble
- Lube
- Decap/Full length size or neck sizing depending on if it is bolt rifle specific ammo, semi autos or general ammo
- Remove military crimp if it has it (most of mine do)
- Wipe off lube or re-tumble for just a bit
- Trim (if needed) and chamfor
- Prime
- Powder (either individual powder measures or using the autodisk for plinking ammo)
- Bullet Seating
- Crimp

 

[MK111]

Hey Frank,

What are your steps when reloading rifle brass? Pistol?

Here are my plans when I get started back up:

Pistol

- Tumble
- Deprime/Size/Prime (all in one pull, Lee Classic Turret)
- Powder
- Bullet seat
- Factory Crimp

Rifle

Using dry media for tumbling:

- Tumble
- Lube
- Decap/Full length size or neck sizing depending on if it is bolt rifle specific ammo, semi autos or general ammo
- Remove military crimp if it has it (most of mine do)
- Wipe off lube or re-tumble for just a bit
- Trim (if needed) and chamfor
- Prime
- Powder (either individual powder measures or using the autodisk for plinking ammo)
- Bullet Seating
- Crimp

PISTOL
That about does it. I use a Lee factory crimp on all pistol rounds for auto and revolver. My friend and I proved 20 yrs ago that the accuracy jumped on full loads 44mag fro 2.0" to 1.5" at 50 yds off sand bags just by using a lee factory crimp seperately. On auto pistol is increased function nearly to 100% because it brings the loaded round back to a called factory round size.
Just remember all brands of brass of the same caliber by differant manufactures are not the same thickness. The lee factory crimp die has a carbide sizing die that sizes the case with the bullet in it. So on pistol loading the factory crimp die is the 4th die.

RIFLE
The rifle info looks correct. But I have never seen a reason to use the factory crimp on rifle loads. Even in my AR15 loads I have never had a problem on bullet setback during chambering.
Rifle rounds have what is called a .002 of bullet tension. In plain words the case ID is 2 thousands under the size of the bullet so when seated it's tight enough for normal use. Now this may change on very heavy recoiling rifles. Especialy if the same rounds are loaded in the rifle and never all shot. in a case like that a single round could be subjected to several recoils.

Also keep the lube off the neck area of the case. If you have lube trapped on the neck it has no where to go during sizing and will cause a inward bump but don't worry about it as it will blow out during firing and no harm is done.

All reloads must have the resizing lube wiped off the loaded round before firing. The brass case is designed to expand and grip the chamber walls to help stop case setback. Otherwise you will get excessive bolt thrust and wear on the firearm.

Hey this is fun. I don't give load data.
This being said talk to someone else and everything I've said is ass backwards in their minds. I drive a Ford and they drive a Chevy and they both do the same thing but neither will never suit the other person.
Frank

P.S. on measuring powder. I use a automatic powder measure on all reloading. My PD rifles that shoot sub 1" groups are auto measured on the Dillon 1050 at 1000 rounds per hour. They almost shoot in the same hole at 100 yds and weighing the powder one at a time won't improve it. The winning champion at Camp Perry loads all his ammo on a Dillon progessive press. But he shoots so high of scores he does weigh his 1000 yd loads but can't see a differance in accuracy. But he doesn't want to go to the line with a doubt in his mind.

 

["J"]

Whoops... Note too self wipe down the necks after lubeing.... Thanks Frank... Seems we're on the same page on almost everything you've put out so far... Well except for that lube thing lol... Can you just make up a container and use some foam and place the rounds neck down in the foam and then spray them down? Seems like it'll keep them mostly lube free...

 

[MK111]

Whoops... Note too self wipe down the necks after lubeing.... Thanks Frank... Seems we're on the same page on almost everything you've put out so far... Well except for that lube thing lol... Can you just make up a container and use some foam and place the rounds neck down in the foam and then spray them down? Seems like it'll keep them mostly lube free...

For the last 15 yrs I have used spray lube only. I got a clean dedicated box about 12x12 and but in about 100 cases. I spray a coating on them shake the box and spray another coating. The shake sorta turns them over to lube the other side. I load them and wipe them with a degreasing rag. I store everything bulk in ammo cans due to volume.
I have found the Hornady spray to be 5 times easier than anything else I've tried.
Over the years I have tried everything in lubing. Since I normally reload in large volumes I find the spray the best. Now if I'm loading just couple for a test run I load them on my Lee Turret press and use the Lee tube lube and just use my fingers. The Lee is water base so a damp wet rag cleans them fine.

 

[Beentown]

Do you need to let the Hornady One Shot dry before using?

 

["J"]

Frank, that's a dry lube?

 

[finelyshedded]

What a great informative thread on a subject I know nothing about but is becoming very popular these days. Thanks for starting it Dan and thanks to all who have contributed in instructing people like me.

Awesome stuff, carry on.....

 

[MK111]

Do you need to let the Hornady One Shot dry before using?

I spray the cases down and immediately in my Dillon bass collator and start reloading. I couldn't think of the Hornady One Shot name when I posted.

"J" no dry lube. It may dry in time but I reload immediately. We sold Lyman spray lube for years then started selling the Hornady One Shot and I swear on the 1st case I sized I was certain that there was no case present. I did couple more cases and called my son down and he tried them and we were sold on One Shot. It's sizes 5X easier.

Good idea to lube a pistol case every 20-30 cases even when using carbide dies just makes everthing work so much slicker. With 30 Carbine with carbide dies it's required since the carbide is full length.

 

[MK111]

There are all kinds of tricks to use once you start reloading. You guys are just jogging my memory. I have a good friend that I always experimented with years ago was a benchrest shooter. He taught me all kinds of advance reloading tricks you won't find in any book.
I taught myself to reload reading a reloading book back in 1965 and there just wasn't much info out there. Yes we used to read back in the old day before computors. Today it's just a Google away from a wealth on information.
But never get reloading recipes off the net always get them out of a reloading book. Too many crazies out there and misprinted figures.

Let me repeat that again NEVER GET RELOADING DATA OFF THE NET. Don't even copy data out of someone elses reloading book. A mistake can cost you your life. We have tightasses come to the gunshow and start copying data out of a reloading book and we stop it because a miswriten figure can kill you.
I would stay away from a Bullet manufacture reloading book as the book will only have data for their bullets and no one elses. A Lyman reloading book or Lee's Manual is the one to get as they are a catch it all book.
Be careful

A rather funny but true story. My son and I always told new starting reloaders that if they could read and had common sense they could reload safely and accurately.
Well my son was in Louisville,KY gunshow and told a new reloader that. One of our long time repeat older customers was standing there. And said Mark that's not true. "I can't read a word and never learned but I can reload just fine". We never used that saying again.

 

[hickslawns]

This is awesome stuff. Thanks for chiming in Frank! I think my biggest hangup to start reloading has been the unknown variables. I have a couple reloading books. I have read as much as I could. It is dry material. Sort of like reading the first 9 Chapters of 1 Chronicals in The Bible (the genealogy section). I wish reloading books were more exciting to where I could maintain my focus.!