Gun week total is down 8%

[Ohiosam]

Yep the the ODNR throws us farmers under the bus as the sole reason for the harvest levels that they have established. But we can take it, most of us have broad shoulders. lol

 

[jagermeister]

You may have seen 20 deer but doubt you could have killed them all.
Your area is not represenative of the whole state. I would almost bet your area was not as productive as it is today. If and when it changes where will you be?
For every action there is a reaction to determine the reaction before hand is not reactionary.
I can still remember when they wanted the herd up to 500 to 600K, oops maybe we went to far.

I may be a lot of things... but one thing I'm not is a liar. I have no reason to lie about shit like this. In six days of hunting, I saw a total of 23 deer... 20 of them walked within bow range... killed one doe, the rest got a free pass. Doubt me all you want, brother... but trust me, it's no bullshit.

...Your area is not represenative of the whole state.

I'm not saying it is. You're the one that implied the ODOW has created a "mess." I'm simply sharing an experience that supports why I believe I'm not seeing anything that evenly remotely resembles this so-called "mess."

 

[Milo]

Yep the the ODNR throws us farmers under the bus as the sole reason for the harvest levels that they have established. But we can take it, most of us have broad shoulders. lol

let me ax you this....Do you feel it is okay to issue deer kill permits for land the farmer does not allow hunting?

 

[Beentown]

let me ax you this....Do you feel it is okay to issue deer kill permits for land the farmer does not allow hunting?

I will answer this one. I come from a large farming family and community. It is their land let them do what they want. I believe in land owner rights above all else. If it is legal to take animals with kill permits then it shouldn't matter how they manage their land. I have a hard time letting people hunt our land. They abuse it eventually in one way or another (not all but the majority).

 

[Ohiosam]

let me ax you this....Do you feel it is okay to issue deer kill permits for land the farmer does not allow hunting?

That is a matter for the WO to decide on a case by case situation. I think there are situations where it is OK. Here is one. I have friend that has a small orchard, about 12 acres. Right smack in the middle of those 12 acres are 2 houses and his farm market. There are employees working in the orchard and customers around the market. He owns no woods and the closest woods( are probably 200 yards from his property line. The owner of the woods doesn't allow hunting. The deer are never in the orchard in the day time. His only real option are the permits.

 

[Ohiosam]

For the record I hunt where a lot of crop damage permit have been used for over 25 years. I doubt there are many places in the state that have used as many as the landowners where I hunt.

 

[Milo]

I will answer this one. I come from a large farming family and community. It is their land let them do what they want. I believe in land owner rights above all else. If it is legal to take animals with kill permits then it shouldn't matter how they manage their land. I have a hard time letting people hunt our land. They abuse it eventually in one way or another (not all but the majority).

problem is the deer are not his property. they are everyone. You do realize that Its their land let them do what they want cuts both ways right? Besides the property is not really yours in America...its only yours if you pay the taxes on it. Ohiosam, there are other ways to keep the deer out. Fence? I think your both bullshitting yourself... leave it up to the WO? really....

 

[Ohiosam]

problem is the deer are not his property. they are everyone. You do realize that Its their land let them do what they want cuts both ways right? Besides the property is not really yours in America...its only yours if you pay the taxes on it. Ohiosam, there are other ways to keep the deer out. Fence? I think your both bullshitting yourself... leave it up to the WO? really....

Fence? That is a good one.

Do you have any idea what it takes to build a deer proof fence around a farm with drive ways , streams etc? PA used to help pay for those, they gave up because it didn't work.

The orchard I hunt on tried invisible fence, they put the IF around 3 different 50 acre blocks of orchard. They put 2 large dogs in each block. Their food was in one corner, water in another to make them move around more. Theory was the dogs would chase away the deer. It didn't work.

Let me ask you this, ever everyone owns the deer why doesn't everyone pay for the damage they cause?

 

[Milo]

Fence? That is a good one.

Do you have any idea what it takes to build a deer proof fence around a farm with drive ways , streams etc? PA used to help pay for those, they gave up because it didn't work.

The orchard I hunt on tried invisible fence, they put the IF around 3 different 50 blocks of orchard. They put 2 large dogs in each block. Their food was in one corner, water in another to make them move around more. Theory was the dogs would chase away the deer. It didn't work.

Let me ask you this, ever everyone owns the deer why doesn't everyone pay for the damage they cause?

Really? a fence is not a viable solution....i call bullshit once again... i guess the orchard outside Granville ohio must be broke or retarded......They did it...drive by yourself.. Right on state route 37 if your interested.... We do pay for it because when there is a shortage of corn the prices go up...Damage must be proven first. Once again deer take the blame for damage done by multiple critters.

 

[Beentown]

problem is the deer are not his property. they are everyone. You do realize that Its their land let them do what they want cuts both ways right? Besides the property is not really yours in America...its only yours if you pay the taxes on it. Ohiosam, there are other ways to keep the deer out. Fence? I think your both bullshitting yourself... leave it up to the WO? really....

I realize the deer are not their property. But as long as the deer are on THEIR property and they have kill tags then so be it. For the record we don't use them. We use hunters to help with the population. I think in the last ten years we have only used the kill permits on three properties out of 6000 acres about 525 acres in total between three properties). Deer really don't hurt the corn as bad but they can put a real hurt on a bean field. Coons are the major corn killers for us.

"Person, animal, or alien if you are on my land messing with my income you are going to have to answer to me one way or another" is the quote the old timer neighbor gave me. We all enjoy the wildlife in my family so we don't go the route of kill tags unless they are really doing some damage. But I see where he is coming from. It is not his job to be the steward of Ohios wildlife. Most feel it is the cost of doing business....to a point.

Gotta question...Lets say I get a burr up my butt and High Fence the whole property. Are those deer now mine? Do I have to release them?

Beentown

 

[Milo]

I realize the deer are not their property. But as long as the deer are on THEIR property and they have kill tags then so be it. For the record we don't use them. We use hunters to help with the population. I think in the last ten years we have only used the kill permits on three properties out of 6000 acres about 525 acres in total between three properties). Deer really don't hurt the corn as bad but they can put a real hurt on a bean field. Coons are the major corn killers for us.

"Person, animal, or alien if you are on my land messing with my income you are going to have to answer to me one way or another" is the quote the old timer neighbor gave me. We all enjoy the wildlife in my family so we don't go the route of kill tags unless they are really doing some damage. But I see where he is coming from. It is not his job to be the steward of Ohios wildlife. Most feel it is the cost of doing business....to a point.

Gotta question...Lets say I get a burr up my butt and High Fence the whole property. Are those deer now mine? Do I have to release them?

Beentown

yes you do

 

[Beentown]

Really? a fence is not a viable solution....i call bullshit once again... i guess the orchard outside Granville ohio must be broke or retarded......They did it...drive by yourself.. Right on state route 37 if your interested.... We do pay for it because when there is a shortage of corn the prices go up...Damage must be proven first. Once again deer take the blame for damage done by multiple critters.

Milo I agree with most of your points on here but you are dead wrong. A fence for a farmer is not an option. Especially a grain farmer. Do you realize the cost of a fence, gates and all the other odds in ends that would be needed to keep deer out? It isn't your standard 4 foot fence needed. The only viable option is kill permits and hunters. Most of the time hunters are the answer but sometimes they are not.

Beentown

 

[Jackalope]

Fence? That is a good one.

Do you have any idea what it takes to build a deer proof fence around a farm with drive ways , streams etc? PA used to help pay for those, they gave up because it didn't work.

The orchard I hunt on tried invisible fence, they put the IF around 3 different 50 acre blocks of orchard. They put 2 large dogs in each block. Their food was in one corner, water in another to make them move around more. Theory was the dogs would chase away the deer. It didn't work.

Let me ask you this, ever everyone owns the deer why doesn't everyone pay for the damage they cause?

Because they cause 1/9th the damage and yield loss Coons and groundhogs do to corn and soybeans.. It's a farce to blame the deer, they are just more visible so they are blamed more. Let me ask you this, why don't farmers get damage permits for coon and start spotlight them? It's easy to do.. Before coon season we can drive a farm lane and shine the trees at night next to a corn field.. They light up like Christmas trees with eyes.. In Clark county you give me a corn field and a woodline i guarantee you i can shine a half dozen coon in 200 yards...

 

[Ohiosam]

Really? a fence is not a viable solution....i call bullshit once again... i guess the orchard outside Granville ohio must be broke or retarded......They did it...drive by yourself.. Right on state route 37 if your interested.... We do pay for it because when there is a shortage of corn the prices go up...Damage must be proven first. Once again deer take the blame for damage done by multiple critters.

Every farmer's situation is different. What might work for one might not for another. Farming is not a one size fits all proposition. That is why every farm doesn't ask for the permits either.

We live a world economy, deer browse on trees in Ohio and farmer looses a bushel of apples year per year from each tree damaged for rest of the trees' life. Just how much does the price of apples go up? Tell me what critter browses and rubs trees that the deer get blamed for? Let me guess you have never tried to make a living farming have you?

Like I said I hunt where they are used. I have lived(hunting wise) the results of the use of the permits. Last year I choose not to shoot a doe because I felt the herd was under control. It rebounded well this year and I killed one doe, I just might kill another.

 

[Ohiosam]

Because they cause 1/9th the damage and yield loss Coons do to corn and Groundhogs do to soybeans.. It's a farce to blame the deer, they are just more visible so they are blamed more. Let me ask you this, why don't farmers get damage permits for coon and start spotlight them? It's easy to do.. Before coon season we can drive a farm lane and shine the trees at night next to a corn field.. They light up like Christmas trees with eyes.. In Clark county you give me a corn field and a woodline i guarantee you i can shine a half dozen coon in 200 yards...

Everyone owns the coon and all other wildlife too, why shouldn't everyone pay for their damage also? Don't pull the "We all own it" crap when you want the benefit but run away when it is going to cost you some $$

 

[Jackalope]

.


Here is what farmers "think" is causing the damage and what they "think" is their total monetary loss by Racoons and Deer... This is Indiana's farmer attitude survey.. Much like the one the ODNR uses to as they said "Farmer attitude surveys are used to establish and update population goals for most counties."

Here is what the Purdue University Study found to be the actual truth...

Here are some other findings from the study..

"Raccoons were responsible for 87 percent of the
observed damage to corn, an amount more than eight
times greater than damage caused by deer."


However deer do more damage to Soybeans than Groundhogs..

But overall.. Raccoons and Groundhogs do Far more cumulative damage to crops that Deer...





So our season bag limits and population levels are being set by "Farmer Attitude Surveys"... Biologists, are allowing farmers to manage the deer herd.. "Farmers" that obviously don't know what's actually causing the damage. They just blame the deer because they are visible in the fields...

I wonder how Tonk feels about having his management philosophy and method proven obviously flawed by a bunch of university students at a school in the middle of a cornfield????
http://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-265-W.pdf

 

[Jackalope]

Everyone owns the coon and all other wildlife too, why shouldn't everyone pay for their damage also? Don't pull the "We all own it" crap when you want the benefit but run away when it is going to cost you some $$

I didn't.. I simply asked you a question... why don't farmers get damage permits for coon and start spotlight them considering they actually do 8x more damage??

 

[Ohiosam]

If farmers were compensated for wildlife damage which critter caused it would be a moot point. It would take the farmer out of the equation. Are you unwilling to pay for damage do by YOUR wildlife Jack?

BTW I remember having a conversation with a guy willing to go to some extreme measures to stop coon from eating bait.

 

[Ohiosam]

I didn't.. I simply asked you a question... why don't farmers get damage permits for coon and start spotlight them considering they actually do 8x more damage??

When was the last time anyone was prosecuted for killing coon, many farmers have taken extreme measures for coon. Try doing the same with deer and see if it goes unnoticed.

BTW I don't believe coon do 8 times the damage. Coon aren't a real problem in major crops other than corn and then only bother corn from the milk stage until harvest. Deer will browse on corn when it is small until it is harvested. Coon are not a problem in beans, hay or nursery crops. Coon might eat fruit but they don't do long term damage to the trees.

 

[Milo]

Every farmer's situation is different. What might work for one might not for another. Farming is not a one size fits all proposition. That is why every farm doesn't ask for the permits either.

We live a world economy, deer browse on trees in Ohio and farmer looses a bushel of apples year per year from each tree damaged for rest of the trees' life. Just how much does the price of apples go up? Tell me what critter browses and rubs trees that the deer get blamed for? Let me guess you have never tried to make a living farming have you?

Like I said I hunt where they are used. I have lived(hunting wise) the results of the use of the permits. Last year I choose not to shoot a doe because I felt the herd was under control. It rebounded well this year and I killed one doe, I just might kill another.

oh the your not a farmer so fuck you syndrome.... i protect my trees that's what i do.. you should see my yard... i got more green fence up than you can imagine to protect them. seems like every farmer here has 250,00 dollar tractors and 500,00 dollar combines....must be doing okay:smiley_depressive: its time to be part of the solution not running and grabbing a gun. I know I am gonna do my part to try to get things changed. we are all in this together. if trying to make a living means wiping out a deer herd or any herd for that matter, is it really worth it?