Gun week total is down 8%

[Jackalope]

You have no idea how crop insurance works. I'll explain the most common type.

First you are guaranteed based on your past (10 years)production, this is called your APH(Actual Production History). So unless you have had zero wildlife damage in the past your APH has been lowered because of prior damage. You buy insurance as a % of your APH, options are from 50%-85% with 75% being the most common.

So if you have an APH of 125 bushels per acre and a 75% policy you have to lose 31 B per A before you begin to collect. If you produce 80 B per A you will get paid for 14 bushels even though you lost 45 bushels. On top of that your APH for next year is lower.

Crop insurance is not the answer for a chronic problem like wildlife damage.

Here is an Idea... Get rid of CDPs and give farmers 5 bucks per ringtail killed. They would make money on the coon, plus the bushels of grain they saved, and insurance rates would drop due to less damage...

Win / Win / Win..

 

[rrr]

Sam -

I won't speak for him, but I think Milo's point was that the subsidies for farms come from the tax payer. It's not a question of how it works, rather, where the money comes from. In fact, the agricultural insurance and reimbursement system has been brought under speculation many, many times...look at some history and incidences like US v. Butler - just because good old jolly FDR drew up the idea of farm subsidies, it doesn't mean that it should be in use today - nor is practical in the arena of deer.

Going back to the issue of deer's negative impact on crops - baloney. Do deer eat corn and beans? Yes. But do they destruct it? No, certainly not as much as groundhogs do. Why do you think grain farmers like coyotes? I'm not dumb enough to ask if you've ever seen a bean field with several acres missing, and in those empty acres there is a hole...do you think that deer live in those holes...or do you think its a groundhog? And I've yet to see a deer walk into a cornfield and start tearing down stalks...sure does seem like that's the raccoons.

Farmers are not poor and should no long be subsidized by the government - by money taken from the tax payer - or by the privilege of getting deer permits.

 

[Beentown]

Here is an Idea... Get rid of CDPs and give farmers 5 bucks per ringtail killed. They would make money on the coon, plus the bushels of grain they saved, and insurance rates would drop due to less damage...

Win / Win / Win..

Sam is absolutely right on with Crop Insurance. As for the $ per Coon I am all for it but deer can really smoke a bean field. The worst thing a deer does to a corn field is lay on the stalks to bed.

I know many more farmers than probably anybody on here except maybe Sam and none, I repeat NONE of them abuse the CDP system except for one. But he doesn't use the CDP program. He shoots them and leaves them. Of course, he has been to prison for manslaughter so he is not the best "farmer" to use a comparison :smiley_depressive:

Beentown

 

[Beentown]

Subs are and were not for the Farmer. It is/was a way to control prices.

Beentown

 

[Beentown]

Ernie I call BS on the beans. Deer can and will destroy a good portion of a bean field. Corn...not so much. Groundhogs do damage but... Sounds like to me minds are closed on the subject.

The farmer isn't evil. He is hardly making a dent in our deer numbers. The numbers are so low I cannot believe the conversation has went on this long. Without said Farmers most wouldn't have a place to hunt and precious Southern Ohio would be more overrun than it already is.

Beentown

 

[rrr]

Ernie I call BS on the beans. Deer can and will destroy a good portion of a bean field. Corn...not so much. Groundhogs do damage but... Sounds like to me minds are closed on the subject.

That's fine. This summer let's take a drive down some back roads, I've got access to 5000 acres of grain land and about 60% of it it beans. We'll look at groundhog damage, deer damage, and do some damage to groundhogs and not care about which does more (though like you said I am set in my opinion! and you are certainly entitled to yours!)

 

[Ohiosam]

Sam -

I won't speak for him, but I think Milo's point was that the subsidies for farms come from the tax payer. It's not a question of how it works, rather, where the money comes from. In fact, the agricultural insurance and reimbursement system has been brought under speculation many, many times...look at some history and incidences like US v. Butler - just because good old jolly FDR drew up the idea of farm subsidies, it doesn't mean that it should be in use today - nor is practical in the arena of deer.

Going back to the issue of deer's negative impact on crops - baloney. Do deer eat corn and beans? Yes. But do they destruct it? No, certainly not as much as groundhogs do. Why do you think grain farmers like coyotes? I'm not dumb enough to ask if you've ever seen a bean field with several acres missing, and in those empty acres there is a hole...do you think that deer live in those holes...or do you think its a groundhog? And I've yet to see a deer walk into a cornfield and start tearing down stalks...sure does seem like that's the raccoons.

Farmers are not poor and should no long be subsidized by the government - by money taken from the tax payer - or by the privilege of getting deer permits.

While farmers get the check it is not the farmer that get subsidized, it is the bankers through less bankruptcies, machinery dealers through increase sales and finally Cargill and ADM with a steady supply of grain. Ever wonder why grain, cotton, wool, sugar, dairy, tobacco and peanuts get subsidies but most meat and produce don't? Me too. I'm not a big fan of the subsidies but they have leveled the production on many crops.

Back to the CDPs. You should see what they can do to an orchard. When you plant a tree the first few years you prune it to get it to grow properly. During that time if a deer browses on the young tree it can make it grow "funny" limiting the quantity and quality of the fruit. Worse are rubs. Now this ain't like grain where next year the problem is gone, you might have to deal with a problem tree for 10-15-20 years.

It might surprise you that I keep my groundhogs controlled, I don't have many issues with holes in my fields. I also know the difference in most coon and deer damage in corn, though sometimes you can't tell. I'll try this coming summer to put together a few photos different animal damage. It's easy to sit at a computer and make generalities about coons, groundhogs, farmers wealth.

 

[hickslawns]

Just to clear this all up, the reason gun season totals were down is because Sam makes too much money because he can write off his guns as varmint control, his dog as home security, and he makes too much money because. . . well. . . just because he is a farmer. Okay. Just trying to get back on the gun season numbers being down part again. All this is making my head spin. lol

 

[RedCloud]

Back to the CDPs. You should see what they can do to an orchard. When you plant a tree the first few years you prune it to get it to grow properly. During that time if a deer browses on the young tree it can make it grow "funny" limiting the quantity and quality of the fruit. Worse are rubs. Now this ain't like grain where next year the problem is gone, you might have to deal with a problem tree for 10-15-20 years.

Now I have never been a Tree farmer but couldn't they build reusable guards to protect small saplings to keep the deer from rubbing on the bark and eating the leaves/small branches ?

Now I understand that fences around a farmers field wouldn't be a very good option but what about setting aside 2-? acres of a field to plant a more palletable deer food source as an attempt to avoid damage to a cash crop? I mean if on average a farmer looses a few acres a year to damage anyway what would it hurt ?

 

[Mike]

I can see how someone could be naive about wildlife damage. I was. One the properties I hunt had major damage. I thought for sure it was from deer until I did 5 minutes of research. Check this out. This was around all field edges bordering corn.

 

[Matt]

Beener, Sam, not sure where you guys farm at, but are you familiar with this program?

http://huntohiofarms.com/

It hasn't recieved a lot of publicity. I am signed up for it, but I haven't heard a peep.

 

[Jackalope]

I can see how someone could be naive about wildlife damage. I was. One the properties I hunt had major damage. I thought for sure it was from deer until I did 5 minutes of research. Check this out. This was around all field edges bordering corn.
View attachment 873View attachment 874View attachment 875View attachment 876

That's all coon, and opossum damage... Boy what I wouldn't give to flip a dog off in there!!! Boy what that farmer would give for me to flip a dog off in there... Instead he probably called and got 15 CDP for deer.. lol Was there a good sized creek not far in those woods.

 

[RedCloud]

Mike,

We had corn field damage like that maybe even worse then that out where Dante and I hunt. We was amazed at how much corn was laying down this past year. We walked into a couple spots on the field edge where cornstalks about 20-30 yards was all laying on the ground in all directions. (we have a boatload of coons around here)

 

[Mike]

That's all coon, and opossum damage... Boy what I wouldn't give to flip a dog off in there!!! Boy what that farmer would give for me to flip a dog off in there... Instead he probably called and got 15 CDP for deer.. lol Was there a good sized creek not far in those woods.

Why yes there is. I guarantee that no one else hunts there. The old man (they don't farm the land) wants me to hunt there, but the wife doesn't. I can only hunt there when they are out of town. Sneaky like. That's where swanny and I tracked that buck that I shot.

 

[Beentown]

Laying corn = coon usually. Especially the big patches.

Mike that program doesn't get much attention because farmers already know plenty of people that will hunt the property or already do. And farmers are very non-trusting of people in general that they don't know well. Ever run into that small, old time farmer that will give you verbal permission but not written permission??? Now try to get him to let stranger, through a Government program hunt...

No matter what we are talking about small potatoes compared to total harvest. I can see it being a real problem in small pockets (neighbor abusing the program) but overall do you think it is affecting the numbers in your area? Or is the real problem over hunting/TOO many tags? Predation? You smell like shower pee? :smiley_crocodile:

 

[rrr]

Mike -

Think of this way, when you scare a deerz off, does it run over the corn, or through the corn? Coons on the other hands have paws! and ripe down (or topple) the stalks to get to the corn.

Sam -

While farmers get the check it is not the farmer that get subsidized, it is the bankers through less bankruptcies, machinery dealers through increase sales and finally Cargill and ADM with a steady supply of grain. Ever wonder why grain, cotton, wool, sugar, dairy, tobacco and peanuts get subsidies but most meat and produce don't? Me too. I'm not a big fan of the subsidies but they have leveled the production on many crops.

Seriously? The farmer is not the one subsidized? The check doesn't go to the Farmer's name?

That's the dumbest thing that I've heard in awhile. I think you need to brush up on your economics ... oh wait, trickle down economics does work, that's why the bail-out and stimulus package worked too.......?

 

[Ohiosam]

I bet if you checked the lobbies that most strongly support the farm programs you will find very strong support from ag business. BTW the checks often goes to a bank for a secured loan and many checks go to non-farming landowners.

But no business is supported by government as much as lawyerin.

 

[Matt]

Laying corn = coon usually. Especially the big patches.

Mike that program doesn't get much attention because farmers already know plenty of people that will hunt the property or already do. And farmers are very non-trusting of people in general that they don't know well. Ever run into that small, old time farmer that will give you verbal permission but not written permission??? Now try to get him to let stranger, through a Government program hunt...No matter what we are talking about small potatoes compared to total harvest. I can see it being a real problem in small pockets (neighbor abusing the program) but overall do you think it is affecting the numbers in your area? Or is the real problem over hunting/TOO many tags? Predation? You smell like shower pee? :smiley_crocodile:

I am assuming you were talking to me. I would be interested to see just how much use that program is actually getting.

 

[rrr]

I bet if you checked the lobbies that most strongly support the farm programs you will find very strong support from ag business. BTW the checks often goes to a bank for a secured loan and many checks go to non-farming landowners.

But no business is supported by government as much as lawyerin.

Of course the ag business is going to support the lobbies that brings it money. Duh? The farmer's name is on the check. Plain and simple.

BTW - glad to see you've digressed to personal attacks since you don't know a thing about economics. :smiley_crocodile:

 

[Ohiosam]

BTW - glad to see you've digressed to personal attacks since you don't know a thing about economics. :smiley_crocodile:

I guess since you digressed first I thought it was OK.

Sam -

That's the dumbest thing that I've heard in awhile. I think you need to brush up on your economics ... oh wait, trickle down economics does work, that's why the bail-out and stimulus package worked too.......?

If you want to debate economics boy, we'll go at it. Probably best if you started a new thread though. Maybe you can learn me something from those books you've been reading.