Ohio man convicted for killing 2 dogs harrassng deer

[Just 1 More]

I guess you and I have different morals. I wouldn't do that to someone's pet.

I wouldn't let my pet run wild... At some point, the owner needs to be responsible

 

[Jackalope]

Crap happens. Dogs dig under fences, snap chains etc.

Crap happens, run a stop sign, go left of center, fall asleep at the wheel. Crap happens doesn't negate damages and isn't an affirmative defense in a lawsuit.

 

[jagermeister]

I wouldn't let my pet run wild... At some point, the owner needs to be responsible

Exactly. It's the owner's responsibility, not the dog's... So why punish the dog?

I used to have your mentality about this issue too. Until I got myself a good hunting dog and put literally hundreds, if not thousands, of hours training into it, and literally thousands of dollars invested into it. It's trained to utilize many of it's natural hunting instincts and though I have control 99% of the time, there's always that 1% chance of shit going wrong and the dog taking off. Prey drive is a powerful thing. And I won't even get into how big of an impact a pet can have on a family as a house pet. My wife used to be completely stricken with chronic anxiety before we had the dog. Not any more... That's her "baby."

I guess this is my long winded attempt to try and persuade some folks to think twice if tempted to shoot a "problematic" dog. If the dog is aggressive and you're in fear for your safety, sure, I get it. But don't shoot a dog just because it messed up your deer hunt. That's just plain stupid in my opinion.

 

[Wmiller07]

Crap happens, run a stop sign, go left of center, fall asleep at the wheel. Crap happens doesn't negate damages and isn't an affirmative defense in a lawsuit.

True and I'm not saying there aren't consequences but I sure don't want the death penalty for running a stop sign.

 

[giles]

Exactly. It's the owner's responsibility, not the dog's... So why punish the dog?

I used to have your mentality about this issue too. Until I got myself a good hunting dog and put literally hundreds, if not thousands, of hours training into it, and literally thousands of dollars invested into it. It's trained to utilize many of it's natural hunting instincts and though I have control 99% of the time, there's always that 1% chance of shit going wrong and the dog taking off. Prey drive is a powerful thing. And I won't even get into how big of an impact a pet can have on a family as a house pet. My wife used to be completely stricken with chronic anxiety before we had the dog. Not any more... That's her "baby."

I guess this is my long winded attempt to try and persuade some folks to think twice if tempted to shoot a "problematic" dog. If the dog is aggressive and you're in fear for your safety, sure, I get it. But don't shoot a dog just because it messed up your deer hunt. That's just plain stupid in my opinion.

Agreed!

Beyond safety or food, you have no right to take a life. That makes a person a killer, not a hunter.

 

[Bigcountry40]

I personally could never shoot a dog unless aggressive etc and I am in no way defending the actions of the hunter or dog owner. My question is- Wasn't this an ongoing issue and the dog killer had talked with the dog owner about the dogs running wild?
Anyone that has hunted in the southern states has had a hand full of hunts ruined or interrupted by wild and domesticated dogs. Its almost a norm in the south, in my opinion. Mid West not so much.

 

["J"]

Here's the thing about being on stand and seeing a dog running by.... We've all been there... but here's the difference.... Fido the house dog or Josie the 7k working dog wear collars, haven't been roaming the woods for weeks on end and don't look like they haven't been maintained in a month... We've all seen at one time or another those pets that get out vs the stray that's been out chasing shit for weeks... If your hunting a farm chances farmer Al has a couple if not a dozen farm dogs running around....
You know the difference, and use your common sense....

 

[Jackalope]

Exactly. It's the owner's responsibility, not the dog's... So why punish the dog?

I used to have your mentality about this issue too. Until I got myself a good hunting dog and put literally hundreds, if not thousands, of hours training into it, and literally thousands of dollars invested into it. It's trained to utilize many of it's natural hunting instincts and though I have control 99% of the time, there's always that 1% chance of shit going wrong and the dog taking off. Prey drive is a powerful thing. And I won't even get into how big of an impact a pet can have on a family as a house pet. My wife used to be completely stricken with chronic anxiety before we had the dog. Not any more... That's her "baby."

I guess this is my long winded attempt to try and persuade some folks to think twice if tempted to shoot a "problematic" dog. If the dog is aggressive and you're in fear for your safety, sure, I get it. But don't shoot a dog just because it messed up your deer hunt. That's just plain stupid in my opinion.

I get what you're saying. And that is your side of the equation. Now on the other side you have someone who may have thousands of hours looking for a property to hunt, invested time and money in clearing and planting food plots, worked to put up and maintain feeders and stand locations, maybe they purchased the property and are paying thousands in interest, or leased it for thousands of dollars a year. They've given considerable time in creating bedding areas to attempt to keep the deer around. Point is they too have thousands of hours and dollars invested in their endeavor. Time and money is not unique to one over the other. That guy and most of us would shoot a coyote that was running deer without blinking, a dog is no different except one has an owner and the other doesn't. To him it doesn't matter if it's a coyote or a domestic dog, the action being committed and impact to his investment is the same. To the person being impacted the fact that the dog being someones pet or "baby" has no bearing on the situation. Frankly that's not his concern as his concern is protecting his investment in time and money, not the dog owners investment in time and money. Blaming the person who protected their investment after the dog owner failed to protect theirs is ass backwards in my opinion. This doesn't only apply to hunting, running cattle, sheep, and even chickens apply the same, all is an investment of time and money. I'm not making excuses or saying it's justified, just saying that simply because it's a pet holds no bearing.

I ran coon dogs for many a years, and boy do I understand that dogs don't understand property lines. I also understand that if that dog ran off there was a chance he would get shot. If people can't accept that risk then they have no business throwing the latch on a dog box in the first place. Each time you do throw that latch is a time he may not come back, maybe he runs off, coyotes attack him, hit by a car, bit by a snake, or shot for being somewhere he shouldn't be. This is exactly why I personally never mixed the two, I had pets and I had working dogs.

I lost a good black and tan hound when I was about 17 because the dumb shit loved chickens. He got out and went about a mile down the road and raided this guys coop, killed them all. The guy called and told me what happened, he was nice about it but said the next time he would shoot him. Nothing personal. I went and got the dog, fortified his kennel, even put a roof on it. After about a month I got lax and he shot out of there like a bullet. Guy shot him dead right in his coop. I never blamed the guy, not once, the damn dog was a chicken killer, the kennel had a new pup before the week was out.

I once watched my uncle shoot like 9 dogs with a 270 win mag for killing goats. He owned a trailer park and the sewage all ran to a sediment pond. (welcome to Mississippi). The pond had a big 10 foot chain link fence around it with about a 10 foot area of grass before the edge of the water. He didn't like mowing it because who would. So he bought about 10 goats to put in there. The trailer park dogs dug under and got in and killed three of them. He filled the hole and they dug in another area. He caught them in there and shot every damn one of them with his deer rifle.

 

[jagermeister]

I personally could never shoot a dog unless aggressive etc and I am in no way defending the actions of the hunter or dog owner. My question is- Wasn't this an ongoing issue and the dog killer had talked with the dog owner about the dogs running wild?
Anyone that has hunted in the southern states has had a hand full of hunts ruined or interrupted by wild and domesticated dogs. Its almost a norm in the south, in my opinion. Mid West not so much.

Yes... 100% agree.

---

I totally understand your opposite side of the argument, Joe. One man's investment is no better than another man's investment. But this is where J's point comes into play. You can usually tell the difference between someone's per running loose and a stray. I have no problem shooting an obvious stray. Like you said, it's no different than a coyote. But when it comes to someone's pet, there should definitely be done discretion. The leasing deer hunter had an investment to protect... I get that... But the deer come back, eventually. Somebody's dog isn't coming back once that trigger is pulled.

 

[Jackalope]

Yes... 100% agree.

---

I totally understand your opposite side of the argument, Joe. One man's investment is no better than another man's investment. But this is where J's point comes into play. You can usually tell the difference between someone's per running loose and a stray. I have no problem shooting an obvious stray. Like you said, it's no different than a coyote. But when it comes to someone's pet, there should definitely be done discretion. The leasing deer hunter had an investment to protect... I get that... But the deer come back, eventually. Somebody's dog isn't coming back once that trigger is pulled.

I agree. Discretion should always be applied. Even with strays if I can tell they're lost. And you're right that somebodies dog isn't coming back once that trigger is pulled, but that's also kind of the point.

 

[Just 1 More]

I personally could never shoot a dog unless aggressive etc and I am in no way defending the actions of the hunter or dog owner. My question is- Wasn't this an ongoing issue and the dog killer had talked with the dog owner about the dogs running wild?
Anyone that has hunted in the southern states has had a hand full of hunts ruined or interrupted by wild and domesticated dogs. Its almost a norm in the south, in my opinion. Mid West not so much.

I hunted Alabama for a few years and people would dump litters of pups and full grown dogs on the hunting property. We had over 7,000 acres.. Stray dogs chasing deer was a regular thing.. Warden said to follow the 3 S's.. Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up

 

[MK111]

Just how is one to tell the dog is someone's pet? Got a collar on it and a guy is walking it on a lease? It's not possible to tell the difference of a stray from a someone's nice pet.
A dog running deer is not some nice pet, if it was the owner would have it under control according to Ohio state laws. Some so called pets run loose all the time.
This a win less subject due to the nature of it.
I haven't shot a stray dog in over 20 yrs but when I did I feared for my life and the decision was made. I sure would not want it on my mind if I passed on it and this nice pet of someone hurt some small kid or as big as it was killed the kid.

 

[Mike]

Dude, a dog is a dog, nice domesticated pet or wild. It's their instinct to chase. My dog saw a buck while shed hunting and took off after it. I should have shot her ass dead.

 

[Bigslam51]

Dude, a dog is a dog, nice domesticated pet or wild. It's their instinct to chase. My dog saw a buck while shed hunting and took off after it. I should have shot her ass dead.

My dog also chases squirrels, birds, and chipmunks around the yard. We keep her on a cable chain when she goes out but there's been a few times where she's bolted out of the door and ran off. That scares the shit out of me.

 

[Wmiller07]

My dog also chases squirrels, birds, and chipmunks around the yard. We keep her on a cable chain when she goes out but there's been a few times where she's bolted out of the door and ran off. That scares the shit out of me.

Yah no kidding with hunters like this. It pisses me off thinking that someone would shoot a dog for coming on their property. There are much better ways to handle this.

 

[Bigslam51]

Yah no kidding with hunters like this. It pisses me off thinking that someone would shoot a dog for coming on their property. There are much better ways to handle this.

I ran in front of a moving car once to stop her from getting hit, I'd hate to be the person that shot my dog.

 

["J"]

Just how is one to tell the dog is someone's pet? Got a collar on it and a guy is walking it on a lease? It's not possible to tell the difference of a stray from a someone's nice pet.
A dog running deer is not some nice pet, if it was the owner would have it under control according to Ohio state laws. Some so called pets run loose all the time.
This a win less subject due to the nature of it.
I haven't shot a stray dog in over 20 yrs but when I did I feared for my life and the decision was made. I sure would not want it on my mind if I passed on it and this nice pet of someone hurt some small kid or as big as it was killed the kid.

If the dogs clean looks fed and is wearing a collar you know it's someone's pet.... Looking shaggy, matted and skinny it's been out there on its own for a while.... Not rocket science Frank....

 

[Jackalope]

Yah no kidding with hunters like this. It pisses me off thinking that someone would shoot a dog for coming on their property. There are much better ways to handle this.

It pisses me off when owners blatently disregard ohio's leash law and let dogs roam free then make excuses like they did nothing wrong. I had the unfortunate experience of snaring one such dog last February. When I walked in the woods a dog was standing there barking and growling at me. Luckily he scattered when the 22 gave a warning shot because the 2nd shot would have found its mark if he came closer. As I walk up to the snare 100 yards further there was another dog snared still alive.

Question. The snare was 100% legal. Do I
A. Try to let him go and risk getting bit.
B. Shoot him and go on about my business.
C. Spend hours knocking on every door for two miles trying to locate the owner and deal with having to take them out there all the while listening to their ignorance on trapping laws which will undoubtedly end with them calling the cops on me for what they call being illegal.

Option C. Sure is asking for a lot from a guy that's 100% legal when the owners themselves are blatantly disregarding the law, the safety of their dog, and the safety of the community.

I first tried A and almost got bit a couple times.

I contemplated B.

I decided to try something else first which was I took a forked log and pinned the dog, stepped on him, then pulled that cable until it choked him out, when his eyes rolled back I cut the loop and kept a pistol on him until he came too and took off.

 

[Bigslam51]

Catch pole would of solved that issue, Joe.

 

[Wmiller07]

You are talking about different scenarios where shooting a dog may be justified. I'm talking about a dog coming into your property and chasing wild animals. I'm pretty sure if it's a continuous problem law enforcement can be called and the owner issued a fine.