ODNR proposed dates for Deer & Turkey Seasons

[Big_Holla]

Wild turkeys are animals that survive better in larger flocks. They rely on each other for that survival of predators and finding food so yes, over hunting can also continue to reduce their numbers as they go through a tough fall and winter.

 

[Bowhunter57]

I had never heard of the pecking order taking weeks or months to reestablish with turkeys.
If that's true and it messes up the breeding of the hens, would a hunter be better off to shoot a jake?
That would somewhat preserve the flock until the following season or at least speed up the pecking order process. Am I thinking all wrong about this process, according to Mr. Chamberlain?

Bowhunter57

 

[jagermeister]

I had never heard of the pecking order taking weeks or months to reestablish with turkeys.
If that's true and it messes up the breeding of the hens, would a hunter be better off to shoot a jake?
That would somewhat preserve the flock until the following season or at least speed up the pecking order process. Am I thinking all wrong about this process, according to Mr. Chamberlain?

Bowhunter57

Overall, yes. If all we killed were Jakes, the Toms would probably breed a much larger percentage of the hens and in theory we’d have more turkeys. But that’s not the way to look at it. Timing of our season is more critical than WHAT we kill. If the season is timed correctly, ie not too early, a large portion of the hens will already be bred prior to the Toms getting whacked. It’s funny because a lot of folks argue, saying they think the season should start sooner because “that’s when the breeding is going on.” When in reality, that would be the worst thing you could do to the population.

 

[Creamer]

I do like the antlerless year round on public. It wouldn't have helped me this year but if I don't shoot a public doe early, it would be nice to have more targets of opportunity in late season.

 

[giles]

I know that my deer spot used to have tons of turkeys. But ever since we started getting bobcat, they are gone. You hear them, but hardly ever see them. And no one can hunt them, so it ain't the humans.

 

[cspot]

If harvesting a 2nd gobbler is such a concern then why the heck do they have such a long fall season where hens are legal game? Seems to me that if they want to make a change that is the place to do it. Also keep in mind the proposed change is public land only. So just how much of a difference does that really make. How many hunters currently kill 2 gobblers on public land? I bet not a very big percentage.

 

[cspot]

Wrong.

You could only shoot one doe on public land... and you couldn’t shoot a doe after gun season. But you COULD shoot a buck on public land all season long, regardless of whether you killed a doe or not.

So if you shot a doe on public, but still had a buck tag in your pocket, you could hunt public for a buck all you wanted.

If you shot a doe on public, and you already killed a buck, then yes you were done hunting on public land.

Correct. I misread his post and thought he said 1 doe per year.

 

[Creamer]

Wrong.

You could only shoot one doe on public land... and you couldn’t shoot a doe after gun season. But you COULD shoot a buck on public land all season long, regardless of whether you killed a doe or not.

So if you shot a doe on public, but still had a buck tag in your pocket, you could hunt public for a buck all you wanted.

If you shot a doe on public, and you already killed a buck, then yes you were done hunting on public land.

This is what hosed me this past season. I'm sure there are public areas that don't have great doe numbers so the 1-per season limit is justified. I was seeing a lot of does, and having killed one on opening morning on public, I couldn't kill another one on public last season. One doe I had in my lap in late October was a TANK and had to let her walk inside 10 yards. I had spots where I know I could have gotten doe shots in late season but couldn't do it legally. Sucked for me.

 

[LonewolfNopack]

The “new” research is quite to the contrary. Look up Mike Chamberlain, PhD. One of the most knowledgeable wild turkey biologists in the country. One interesting thing I learned is that, when you kill a dominant Tom, another bird doesn’t just move in and start breeding hens right away. Those turkeys spent all winter and all spring establishing a pecking order. When the dominant bird gets taken out, that whole pecking order process usually starts over. It could take weeks, or even months. And until that’s sorted out, breeding of the hens is inconsistent or non-existent. Dr. Chamberlain has some really eye opening data and findings. He was in the Meateater podcast once or twice too. I highly recommend listening to that episode.

I believe we are saying the same thing. Maybe I didn't state it clearly. What I was saying is that the notion of saying killing male birds has no impact on turkey population is old news because it indeed does.

 

[LonewolfNopack]

If harvesting a 2nd gobbler is such a concern then why the heck do they have such a long fall season where hens are legal game? Seems to me that if they want to make a change that is the place to do it. Also keep in mind the proposed change is public land only. So just how much of a difference does that really make. How many hunters currently kill 2 gobblers on public land? I bet not a very big percentage.

Answer to that question is simple and political. It's all about providing opportunities to hunters. Division of wildlife manages hunters as much or more as they do wildlife. An honest turkey biologist will tell you that killing hens is a great way to reduce the population and definitely has an impact. With this said most folks are not focusing on hunting fall hens so overall not a huge deal.

 

[LonewolfNopack]

Another general note here, and I have learned this from experience and people may not like to hear it.... If as many people went directly to the DOW with their issues and concerns as we do bitch and complain online and amongst ourselves then we may start seeing things go more in line with the way we want them. DOW don't care what you or I think but I can guarantee if we took 200 people to an open house and overflowed the parking lot and stood in a huge line in an organized manner then they will start paying attention. This takes a ton of planning an coordination though which few of us have the time for. Until then rules and wildlife regulations will continue to be passed and rubber stamped by the wildlife council.

 

[cspot]

Ok. Last year there was 2,577 gobblers taken by the 2nd tag. Of all gobbler harvest approx 7.4 percent is on public land. This equates to across the state it would have reduced the gobbler harvest by 190 birds in this new proposal. This would assume that those hunters wouldn’t hunt private for that second bird. So tell me again how this is helping when most of the breeding is done by season start anyway and it is only 190 bird difference clear across the state.
By comparison the fall season took about 570 hens.

 

[Jackalope]

Overall, yes. If all we killed were Jakes, the Toms would probably breed a much larger percentage of the hens and in theory we’d have more turkeys. But that’s not the way to look at it. Timing of our season is more critical than WHAT we kill. If the season is timed correctly, ie not too early, a large portion of the hens will already be bred prior to the Toms getting whacked. It’s funny because a lot of folks argue, saying they think the season should start sooner because “that’s when the breeding is going on.” When in reality, that would be the worst thing you could do to the population.

I've said it for a decade regarding the "when" of season opener.

They want you to hunt them, but they really don't want you to kill them.

 

[giles]

I've said it for a decade regarding the "when" of season opener.

They want you to hunt them, but they really don't want you to kill them.

In other words, give me your money. And you people do! $30+ for a stupid bird tag?! Something wrong with you people. Those of you that travel for these stupid things should see a doctor.

 

[Big_Holla]

It could also be continued pressure they are trying to relieve on state land. So others that are hunting for their first bird aren't running into competing hunters and very spooked birds perhaps??

 

[Jackalope]

In other words, give me your money. And you people do! $30+ for a stupid bird tag?! Something wrong with you people. Those of you that travel for these stupid things should see a doctor.

Some will cut the mustard, most wont. Our turkey season opener is the deer season equivalent of opening deer season a week after Thanksgiving.

 

[giles]

Some will cut the mustard, most wont. Our turkey season opener is the deer season equivalent of opening deer season a week after Thanksgiving.

How much is a tag down that way?

 

[tracker 6]

It could also be continued pressure they are trying to relieve on state land. So others that are hunting for their first bird aren't running into competing hunters and very spooked birds perhaps??

Where's that meme of the woman beating on that pan ?

 

[Sgt Fury]

In other words, give me your money. And you people do! $30+ for a stupid bird tag?! Something wrong with you people. Those of you that travel for these stupid things should see a doctor.

It’d be cheaper for me to go to the supermarket and buy a butterball but I do it for the fun, excitement and memories...can’t put a price on that when you can’t take your money with you.

 

[Sgt Fury]

Where's that meme of the woman beating on that pan ?