Golf IS a pain in the ass! I used to be a 7 handicap, had a kid, lucky to be an 18 now! That's painful too!
AEP land maybe ran by land lease co.-Questions I am pondering.
- Thread starter Bigcountry40
- Start date
Strother23
Member
Yea I agree. I am wanting to purchase something in the next maybe 3yrs or so. To difficult to hunt private for free or even a decent price. The place I hunt is 140 acres and an older lady owns it (84yr old) and one of her son is the care taker and when she passes it will get sold and divided between her 5 kids. So the clock is ticking for me to secure more land somehow. I would mind a lease to maybe split between 3 or 4 friends but I don't have enough friends that are serious about hunting or that I could count on paying.
Here's my .02... I am a non resident and lease land in Ohio. All of us in the lease are middle class guys that work hard and have given up on big bucks where we live (mostly southern WV and now i'm in PA) due to poaching and AWFUL hunting regulations. Ohio takes care of their bucks with strict regulations and policing - only one reason people come to Ohio to hunt --> Better hunting and bigger bucks!! Kudos to ODNR! Increasing the non resident tag to $500, as few has said above, will only drop the amount of hunters a small amount; I'd guess 85% or more would still purchase. So increasing it to $500 won't solve the problems residents are saying non residents are causing. I personally know many farmers that were struggling to get by and now they are leasing their hunting rights to pay for the taxes and put a few dimes in their pocket. I also know small biz owners that love seeing the non residents purchase gas, supplies, food, etc at their stores. I personally think the bubble on leasing in Ohio will bust soon, guessing next 3 years. Look at Illinois - just a few years ago Illinois leases were insane and you couldn't lease a 3 legged dog out there due to demand. NOW there are thousands of available acres to lease in Illinois for much less prices compared to Ohio now due to people finally saying enough is enough with crazy high prices and I feel much of them have came to Ohio in the last 5 years when prices were much lower. I look at Kentucky and see it being in the same stage as Ohio about 5 to 7 years ago and I'm sure it will continue to rise. I also think this crazy society we live in has changed "permission" or free range areas. Now if someone gets hurt while hunting a free range property I'm sure an attorney will advise them to sue; that's ridiculous and I don't blame landowners for cashing in and being more secure with liability. Not all landowners are hunters and they are taking advantage of the income and peace of mind "renters" on a formal lease instead of just allowing people to come and go and possibly cause problems. I use the saying that lessees pick up beer cans and people who come and go on open properties usually throw out beer cans; sad but true - lots of good guys but one bad apple ruins it for everyone. I'd prefer to own property to hunt on but financially it's not feasible when I can lease for a fraction of the cost and have the same enjoyments. I do however agree that these so called "outfitters" are a huge problem. They run around and lease anything and everything then sell week hunts or whatever to make money when the landowner should be reaping the benefits if they choose to lease their rights. It is sad to hear AEP and other state owned properties are going to be leased and not open to those who can't afford to buy or lease. I think it should be a private land option only; the state needs to have place for people to hunt if they want people to buy tags.
I've lost many a good hunting area to non-res leasers and I do not drink let alone litter. Now I have to hunt public and 8 out of every 10 vehicles are non-res. If $500 won't solve it I would be just fine with $1000. I'm sorry the hunting sucks in your state.
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First off, welcome to TOO. Feel free to introduce yourself. We are plenty welcoming. Many of our regulars are NR. But. . . Some guys like to see an intro before jumping into a lose-lose lease debate. There are no winners in leasing. Locals lose places to hunt. Out of towners/out of staters aren't always welcomed when they show up to hunt. Lessor is spending money and still dealing with trespassers, cost of the trip to the lease, cost of permits, still no guarantee of giant bucks, etc. It is just not fun for either party.
Hopefully, this remains civil. This website is pretty good about keeping it civil as long as both parties do so. I will start off trying to be a positive example. (Not all will agree with me.) Ohio does have some good bucks. Not as many deer as we used to. Mismanagement has hurt. Those of us hunting lots of hours in the stand see the decline which out of town folks might not get a feel for in a couple weeks of hunting throughout the season. We see the inevitable decline in good bucks coming because less deer means less bucks. You will hear $500 tags and so on. Personally, I think if we charged the same fees to hunt our state as you would charge us to hunt your state. . . That seems fair. Just me though.
In regards to Kentucky? I agree completely. There are some absolute slobs down there. Why people leave KY to hunt OH baffles me other than the mystique of "Ohio's big bucks". Land is cheaper to buy there and cheaper to lease. If guys are truly looking for cheap hunting, that is where I would be heading.
Appreciate the welcome HicksLawns -
A little background on myself and hunting situation in Ohio-- Married with 2 little girls and addicted to the pursuit of whitetails. I own my own businesses; one I assist landowners with oil and gas divestment opportunities and the other, I just started with a friend of mine, a local growing contracting business.
As far as hunting -- We've leased approx. 1500 acres in Ohio since 2008/2009 and have implemented different management strategies. We started with a 130 inch minimum and quickly realized that if we wanted a shot at a much larger buck then we had to go to an age restriction and harvest only 5 year old deer or older (especially after having 2 year olds killed that went over 130). We develop a list each year of confirmed 5 year olds and older that we have a history with as well as a list of young bucks that need additional age. We take food plots very seriously but have learnt that food isn't the only thing it takes to grow and hold big bucks. We try to keep our does in check and currently we feel we have overshot our does to a certain degree; especially with the help of additional coyotes we've seen recently. We implement parking areas, number of stand locations, and forbid anyone on the farm during the entire month of september to reduce pressure prior to season, only with many other little things to better the odds. We've learned a lot over the years and continue to do so, So by no means do I nor anyone else in our group feel we are pros when it comes to growing, keeping, and killing big whitetails. We have a great relationship with our landowner and would walk on fire for anything he or his family would need.
As far as non resident tag increases, leasing, outfitters, etc etc I agree 100% with HicksLawns in regards to this is a no win debate. If people were coming into my state I'd probably have the same grumblings and those doing the grumbling would defend the non resident position if the roles were reversed. Also in southern WV there are plenty of giant bucks especially in the 4 bow only counties but the poaching is rampant, theft is never ending, hunting an area exclusively is impossible, and bad apples seem to outcount the good ones; not to mention 1 game warden per county in laughable at best considering the terrain and miles and miles of vacant land to patrol by ONE man. Those are the reasons I left WV and have never hunted my now home state of PA; not just because OH does more to protect their deer. To me ODNR puts more weight on the biology of the herd versus number of tags they can sell like other states nearby.
Ultimately I don't think there is a perfect scenario because OH, KY, Illinois, and many other states aren't going to say who can hunt and who can't; unless they all go to a draw system such as Iowa. I think times have changed and the capitalism of hunting has changed the "sport" to a "business" for many which I don't agree with to a certain degree. I'll be the first to say I don't enjoy paying the kind of money I pay to hunt exclusive ground but its an option and I choose to because I love the chase and everything that comes with management of whitetails (to the best of our knowledge of course). I also believe that nothing in life, including what land we all get to hunt, is fair. I make the most of my abilities and wish everyone else the best of luck whichever state, option, method they choose.
I've read TOO for a long time and enjoy it much more than archery talk and other forums. Thanks again for the welcome and best of luck to all.
A little background on myself and hunting situation in Ohio-- Married with 2 little girls and addicted to the pursuit of whitetails. I own my own businesses; one I assist landowners with oil and gas divestment opportunities and the other, I just started with a friend of mine, a local growing contracting business.
As far as hunting -- We've leased approx. 1500 acres in Ohio since 2008/2009 and have implemented different management strategies. We started with a 130 inch minimum and quickly realized that if we wanted a shot at a much larger buck then we had to go to an age restriction and harvest only 5 year old deer or older (especially after having 2 year olds killed that went over 130). We develop a list each year of confirmed 5 year olds and older that we have a history with as well as a list of young bucks that need additional age. We take food plots very seriously but have learnt that food isn't the only thing it takes to grow and hold big bucks. We try to keep our does in check and currently we feel we have overshot our does to a certain degree; especially with the help of additional coyotes we've seen recently. We implement parking areas, number of stand locations, and forbid anyone on the farm during the entire month of september to reduce pressure prior to season, only with many other little things to better the odds. We've learned a lot over the years and continue to do so, So by no means do I nor anyone else in our group feel we are pros when it comes to growing, keeping, and killing big whitetails. We have a great relationship with our landowner and would walk on fire for anything he or his family would need.
As far as non resident tag increases, leasing, outfitters, etc etc I agree 100% with HicksLawns in regards to this is a no win debate. If people were coming into my state I'd probably have the same grumblings and those doing the grumbling would defend the non resident position if the roles were reversed. Also in southern WV there are plenty of giant bucks especially in the 4 bow only counties but the poaching is rampant, theft is never ending, hunting an area exclusively is impossible, and bad apples seem to outcount the good ones; not to mention 1 game warden per county in laughable at best considering the terrain and miles and miles of vacant land to patrol by ONE man. Those are the reasons I left WV and have never hunted my now home state of PA; not just because OH does more to protect their deer. To me ODNR puts more weight on the biology of the herd versus number of tags they can sell like other states nearby.
Ultimately I don't think there is a perfect scenario because OH, KY, Illinois, and many other states aren't going to say who can hunt and who can't; unless they all go to a draw system such as Iowa. I think times have changed and the capitalism of hunting has changed the "sport" to a "business" for many which I don't agree with to a certain degree. I'll be the first to say I don't enjoy paying the kind of money I pay to hunt exclusive ground but its an option and I choose to because I love the chase and everything that comes with management of whitetails (to the best of our knowledge of course). I also believe that nothing in life, including what land we all get to hunt, is fair. I make the most of my abilities and wish everyone else the best of luck whichever state, option, method they choose.
I've read TOO for a long time and enjoy it much more than archery talk and other forums. Thanks again for the welcome and best of luck to all.
Joel
Senior Member
Welcome to TOO. Good luck this season.
If you have any trail cam pictures or dead deer pictures we like those!
If you have any trail cam pictures or dead deer pictures we like those!
Hahaha. I don't like archerytalk. It is good for the classifieds. Sometimes entertaining. The signature lines crack me up. I really don't care what bow you shoot, rest, sight, quiver, or color your strings are. There is a place to talk about this stuff when necessary. I don't see the need to have a signature line that looks like a Nascar littered in sponsors. Maybe I just don't get it? I just like to learn about hunting and see guys killing deer.
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I want non resident tags at $500 and after you have been selected from a lottery (I would like to see nonresidents limited in this state, I know this will never happen and I will get over it completely). I think Ohio differs from Illinois because it is a closer to the Carolina's and some northeastern states. lease prices in North or South Carolina never hit a peak and came back down, they just keep going higher and higher, I know I have lived in both for a total of 6 years and seen how hunting works down there. I think my lottery system would force a lot of under the table outfitters and out of state land leasers to rethink the amount of money they are willing to spend on a lease here and drive down prices much faster, resulting from this more ohio residents can afford decent hunting leases and not every public spot that is decent looks like a pumpkin patch or has a deer stand in it.
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Just out of curiosity how many people hunt your 1500 acre lease? Personally I am happy for you and admire the fact that you have a group of friends that are willing to dedicate that much effort to your passion, that in itself is hard to come by.
Sorry BigCountry I've been away -
We have a total of 13 people. It's a little crowded due to some agriculture acres but the key is everyone having a "team player" attitude and not trying to one up people or cut others off.. Regardless if I kill or someone else does, I'm just as happy for them. Appreciate it!
We have a total of 13 people. It's a little crowded due to some agriculture acres but the key is everyone having a "team player" attitude and not trying to one up people or cut others off.. Regardless if I kill or someone else does, I'm just as happy for them. Appreciate it!