Broadheads
- Thread starter Beentown
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Why shoot such small grain heads? The tree sharks that we shoot are 165 grains. We get pass thrus with 55lb recurves. I think yall have been warped with the "speed kills". Lets say you have a 550 gr. Arrow that shoots 200fps. This gives you 0.5 fps momentum.
Now lets say you have a 360 grain arrow that you shoot 280 fps. This only gives you 0.44 fps momentum.
The heavier arrow smacks and penetrates more than the lighter arrow. This doesnt even include all the KE you are losing when your broad head opens up at impact.
Would it hurt you more to be hit by a cavalier at 15 mph or a semi truck?
dante322
*Supporting Member*
I agree with big, ole fat arrows with big ole heavy broadheads. Just trying to tell you why most don't go that route. You are in a completely different world Diablo. I have shot both compounds and trad. It is a completely different beast. Why would someone that shoots 3d or paper wanna completely change their setup? Especially when a 400 grain arrow going 290 fps will kill them just as dead at about 75 KE. Most guys are not going to buy two different bows, accesorize both, arrows for both, heads for both, etc... Unless your Milo
Speaking of Milo.... He has the best of both worlds IMHO. Heavy arrows still going fast. I think I am going to go with a heavier set up on my current bow next year and buy a bow just for target this spring.
Back to the reason why Diablo....simple. It is just easier.
Why tune a fixed blade when you can shoot an expandable straight out of the package?
Why change your setup (i.e. move sights, rest, etc...) when you can just run what you have?
Go from a 370 grain arrow to a 550 grain setup means adding pins, and having to be more exacting on guessing distances.
That is the why, besides it is what else everyone is doing...
Beentown
Milo
Tatonka guide.
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I have found that broad heads in general are getting made MUCH better than the ones of the past. The new heads(fixed and mech) are both really easy to get tuned up IF you have the tools. Jack and beener both have seen what i do when i get arrows and heads setup. Unfortunately this is not the norm. I think people would find more success with their setups if they all took these really simple steps and understand their equipment. Knowing your equipment limitations and conversely know where and what situations your equipment will perform the best is the real goal we should be after. I have very little pin gap even with 525 grain arrows. my first pin is 30 yards...i am like 1.5 inches high at 20 with my setup.. i have not even gotten all the way back to 50 yet and i still have 4 more pins..would most likely still have the same setup with a 400 grain setup. I guess i am telling you that getting into a dick pullin contest wont solve the real problem of real life arrow performance.
ohio mossy oak
Senior Member
Hell a 400grain going 290 aint that light of a set up IMO..Heck i shoot a 375grain an might go lighter next season..
ohio mossy oak
Senior Member
I wont lie its to pick up a few fps..I dont shoot the poundage most of you guys do..Im shooting 52lb now..An IF i am lucky an heal 100% an dont end up having surgery i might be able shoot the bow at 62lb maxxed in the future.At 28inDL an being a super smooth 316-320fps IBO rated Z28 im getting just under 250fps..Thats 375grain an 52lb..I would like mid 260s to 270's..Im looking at everything from a 310-350grain total weight..If i have to stay at 52lb or mid 50s after this season..I will down to the 320 or so range for arrow weight..If i can get maxxed at 62lb an shooting fine an pain free I will go with a 350gain...An of course I would match the broadhead to said set up...
I agree with big, ole fat arrows with big ole heavy broadheads. Just trying to tell you why most don't go that route. You are in a completely different world Diablo. I have shot both compounds and trad. It is a completely different beast. Why would someone that shoots 3d or paper wanna completely change their setup? Especially when a 400 grain arrow going 290 fps will kill them just as dead at about 75 KE. Most guys are not going to buy two different bows, accesorize both, arrows for both, heads for both, etc... Unless your Milo
Speaking of Milo.... He has the best of both worlds IMHO. Heavy arrows still going fast. I think I am going to go with a heavier set up on my current bow next year and buy a bow just for target this spring.
Back to the reason why Diablo....simple. It is just easier.
Why tune a fixed blade when you can shoot an expandable straight out of the package?
Why change your setup (i.e. move sights, rest, etc...) when you can just run what you have?
Go from a 370 grain arrow to a 550 grain setup means adding pins, and having to be more exacting on guessing distances.
That is the why, besides it is what else everyone is doing...
Beentown
Because a bowhunter should want a broadhead that they are 100% sure will do the job. You shouldnt be worrying about whether or not your head will open. It's unethical IMO. Back to the heavier arrows,Why couldn't you just shoot a heavy 3d and field point arrow that weighs the same as your bowhunting setup?
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ohio mossy oak
Senior Member
Because 3d is about guessing yardage(an some shooting lol)..So a lighter faster arrow(under IBO rules not ASA) can cover your ass sometimes if you guess the yardage wrong...
I guess Im a hunter not a 3d shooter so I don't have to worry about the lighter faster arrow.
ohio mossy oak
Senior Member
And that is all I was trying to "show" you. Trad is completely different. The stories you hear about expandables not opening are usually about not knowing your equipments limitations or just plain ole bad shot placement. I have shot deer with the following expandable....
Nap Spitfire - 1
Grim Reaper - at least 4
G5 Tekan - 1
Rocky Mountain Snypers - 3
The NAPs I will never use again. I was taken in by the marketing early in my bowhunting "career". I didn't know my equipment well enough and shot a doe quartering away and the deflection was horrible. Couldn't believe it. Have it on film but cannot find it. I think it is on my Dads desktop. IMHO you shouldn't shoot a deer quartering away much at all with this design.
The Tekans I will use again in the II version. I believe Jesse had an issue also. Mine didn't open on a doe. Went thru one lung and her heart so I had no problems with recovery. They have fixed the issue with the II version. Thanks to Jesse I got a free pack of them and they asked if I would send the offender in once I got my package and return shipping label.
Grim Reapers - This head did a great job with no issues. It is designed like the spitfires and is the only reason I don't shoot them anymore because after going to these I kept getting alot of heavy quartering away shots but would not take them due to the design.
Rocky Mountain Snypers - Never had an issue. Some complained about premature opening but that was usually due to bad equipments maintenance (dry rotted or damaged bands).
I'll shoot my Snypers again this year until I am out. Then I am going to go back to Montecs or another fixed blade. Overall most of the broadheads today will preform great and as designed. You just gotta know it's limitations.
Beentown
If you are shooting 3-D it is a guessing game for yardage. With a lighter faster arrow you don't have the arch come into play as much. If you goof up on your yardage your only going to be off a small amount as where if you used a heavy arrow and miss judge by the same 5 yards your going to get a huge drop in arrow flight.
ohio mossy oak
Senior Member
DIablo,
You cant shoot 200 grain heads out of a compound. They dont make shafts with a stiff enough spine to take the beating. The new bows have so much momentum comnig from the cams a regular 300 spine shaft would snap in half wit ha 200 grain head on the end of it out of a 70lb bow.
Everyone has their taste in food, same goes with broadheads. To say that you are opening yourself up for failure by shooting a rage, thats just stupid. Ive shot Rages for over 3 years now without one mechanical failure. A lot of my buddies shoot them, never have they had a failure. Often times failures are due to human error. Human error often comes in the form of negligence(sp). Could I shoot a fixed blade from my bow? You bet. I tune my bows with fixed blades. I group tune every bow I own with fixed blades, as paper tuning in not 100% effective.
I have shot deer with muzzys, montecs, wasp fixed blades, thunderheads. From my experience, they all kill deer. I have had better luck with rages. Im sorry but a 2+ inch hole aint closing up boys. No way, no how. I shoot my Hoyt maxxis at 72lb with a 382 grain arrow at approximately 298 fps. with a 29 inch draw, dont know what KE is I forget, probably around the 70-75 mark. Very rarely do I not get a pass through. Most times the arrow is stuck in the ground about 6 inches on the other side of the deer. Although, to me a pass through is irrelevant. I tend to get more blood through a non pass through. BEsides, 90% of the deer I have shot with rages, I have seen fall.
Everyone talks about shoulder blades. A shoulder blade is not the issue in a deers shoulder. It is the knuckle where the epificy of the bones meets the ball/socket. THats what stops arrows, not scapulas. Scapulas at 60% cartilage and otherwise super thin bone.
Of my deer kills with rages, id say 70% of my heads are reusable as is after the shot, just need a new oring. Im not concerned with re-using broadheads. if it breaks, ill go buy more. who cares.
People use what they feel comfortable in. Although, all to often people depend on a tip to do their work. WHen the confidence should start in the mind of the shooter in his ability to place an arrow exactly where he wants it. When I draw back on a deer, I can be certain that my arrow is going to hit within an inch of where I am aimed. When I draw my bow back, there are no doubts in my mind about my setup. I am that confident in what I shoot and what I use.
Shoot what you want. BEtter yet, test and tune and shoot what proves itself worthy for you. Not because someone told you how good something was or because you heard a good or bad story about it.
You cant shoot 200 grain heads out of a compound. They dont make shafts with a stiff enough spine to take the beating. The new bows have so much momentum comnig from the cams a regular 300 spine shaft would snap in half wit ha 200 grain head on the end of it out of a 70lb bow.
Everyone has their taste in food, same goes with broadheads. To say that you are opening yourself up for failure by shooting a rage, thats just stupid. Ive shot Rages for over 3 years now without one mechanical failure. A lot of my buddies shoot them, never have they had a failure. Often times failures are due to human error. Human error often comes in the form of negligence(sp). Could I shoot a fixed blade from my bow? You bet. I tune my bows with fixed blades. I group tune every bow I own with fixed blades, as paper tuning in not 100% effective.
I have shot deer with muzzys, montecs, wasp fixed blades, thunderheads. From my experience, they all kill deer. I have had better luck with rages. Im sorry but a 2+ inch hole aint closing up boys. No way, no how. I shoot my Hoyt maxxis at 72lb with a 382 grain arrow at approximately 298 fps. with a 29 inch draw, dont know what KE is I forget, probably around the 70-75 mark. Very rarely do I not get a pass through. Most times the arrow is stuck in the ground about 6 inches on the other side of the deer. Although, to me a pass through is irrelevant. I tend to get more blood through a non pass through. BEsides, 90% of the deer I have shot with rages, I have seen fall.
Everyone talks about shoulder blades. A shoulder blade is not the issue in a deers shoulder. It is the knuckle where the epificy of the bones meets the ball/socket. THats what stops arrows, not scapulas. Scapulas at 60% cartilage and otherwise super thin bone.
Of my deer kills with rages, id say 70% of my heads are reusable as is after the shot, just need a new oring. Im not concerned with re-using broadheads. if it breaks, ill go buy more. who cares.
People use what they feel comfortable in. Although, all to often people depend on a tip to do their work. WHen the confidence should start in the mind of the shooter in his ability to place an arrow exactly where he wants it. When I draw back on a deer, I can be certain that my arrow is going to hit within an inch of where I am aimed. When I draw my bow back, there are no doubts in my mind about my setup. I am that confident in what I shoot and what I use.
Shoot what you want. BEtter yet, test and tune and shoot what proves itself worthy for you. Not because someone told you how good something was or because you heard a good or bad story about it.