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Broadheads

For what it is worth, the exit hole on last years buck was in the white belly hair at the last two ribs on the offside. Just in case you're wondering about the high entry hole. Yep, he was pretty close to me. lol

The first two pictures are a button buck I had mistaken for a doe for my first bowkill in 2009. The middle 2 pictures are the doe I killed last week.
 
Personally, I think you fans of ST's have never used a good head. (Joe, that statement is directed at you) As you may recall, I sent you pics of two ST's that were destroyed when my son shot them into his first deer last season. I haven't a clue how anyone could think they are a tough head. They seem mighty brittle to me!
 
brock ratcliff said:
Personally, I think you fans of ST's have never used a good head. (Joe, that statement is directed at you) As you may recall, I sent you pics of two ST's that were destroyed when my son shot them into his first deer last season. I haven't a clue how anyone could think they are a tough head. They seem mighty brittle to me!
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Perhaps so Brock. Perhaps so.. I wouldn't begin to argue your experience with heads... I will however say yours is the first and only i have ever seen that we're broken. Both personally through my own experience and on the net except for when they first came out.. .. If you still have the pics post them again, i don't recall how bad they were. I have yet to destroy one personally and i'm not know for caring about bones that might be in the way.... I take something back though.. I have seen a ST broken.. On a test after being shot through the paddle of a rocky mtn bull elk. It was however a Grizz trick with steeper blade angles than regular STs. If i remember correctly your son spine shot it, then you spine shot it. lol.. And both heads were mangled... RC just spine shot one with a trick. We'll know more once he boils the bones. but it looks to be a dead nuts drill.. I've spine shot them and not had the ST blow apart.. Did you ask them if they've seen a batch that might have had a weak ferrule? 2 in a row sounds more like a batch issue vs how they've performed time and time again for just about every single person who has shot them..

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I am in no way saying they are foolproof, obviously to a degree anything is.. I will say they are better than oh 100% of any mechanical out there by a sheer operational standpoint.. Are they as tough as the single bevel head milo just bought? never... That damn thing is like an eighth inch thick.. Better than a muzzy? I don't know, you tell me.. Four blades Vs 3 and the blades are 33% thicker.. Better than a single blade head like magnus.. Hardly.. Apples to oranges though.
 
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brock ratcliff said:
Personally, I think you fans of ST's have never used a good head. (Joe, that statement is directed at you) As you may recall, I sent you pics of two ST's that were destroyed when my son shot them into his first deer last season. I haven't a clue how anyone could think they are a tough head. They seem mighty brittle to me!
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And what do you consider a good 100 grain fixed blade broadhead? Between my dad and I we have shot a lot. What is your go to broadhead?
 
Personally, I think you fans of ST's have never used a good head. (Joe, that statement is directed at you) As you may recall, I sent you pics of two ST's that were destroyed when my son shot them into his first deer last season. I haven't a clue how anyone could think they are a tough head. They seem mighty brittle to me!
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Same question as epe....I'd love to hear another opinion...you've killed a lot of deer with your bow, what do you use?
 
I killed many many and all my first bow deer with spitfires in a crossbow. Big holes, big blood trails. Had one bad batch and two different deer get away - one whick I recoverd but it took him half a day to die. The blades werent opening. I took them home and apart and studied them and the unused new blade to see the blades were bent out of the package. Spitfire replaced them and had me send the batch back. The following year I used Rage cause they were all the "rage" and flat out missed due to loose limb bolts on two deer due to an assH I trusted who fixes bows for allot of ppl. Took my bow to The Fin after the string shredded on the second miss for a new string and they found the problem. Thats the year I went through my divorce and held two years of No luck and no opp to shoot anything. So All my bucks and countless does are with spitfires. New bow, new life and I gotta give them up when they were so good to me? This is difficult and everyone has an opinion so Im listening to them all but have always wanted to go fixed blade. Im tired of mechanical things not functioning properly. Same reason I got away from red dot scopes.
 
hickslawns said:
I am not as seasoned as some of you guys, but I HAVE killed several deer with my bow now. I will go with what I know and what I have seen for now. I am not asking what side of beef to buy from a vegetarian any sooner than I am going to ask marital advice from a priest or broadhead advice from someone that hasn't put one through a deer yet. I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. This is not my goal. Just hate to see anyone mislead in an area that I feel is pretty important. I am glad to see our friend back posting again, but in my opinion advice on broad heads might be best left to those which have put some through a deer. Once again, sorry if I am stepping on your ego.

Kaiser is an animal whether racing his dirtbike or killing deer. I'm glad Rages work for him, but he is also a competition shooter with great confidence, accuracy, and kinetic energy. To me, he is the exception to the rule. I am not convinced Rages are best for everyone. I think those less experienced than Zach tend to have too much confidence in the broadhead making up for their poor shot angle or shot selection. Just last week I watched someone take a 41yd shot at a bedded doe and aim for the neck because "I was using my Rages so I knew she would die." His quote. Not mine. Didn't impress me. Also didn't find the deer. Another guy was bragging about his Rages and said the buck he killed last year died because he opened it up like a tin can. Hard shot angle, and the Rage ran along the outside of the ribcage but NEVER penetrated the ribs or any vitals. To me, this is not ethical nor should it be encouraged. Like I said, Zach is the exception to the rule. He is not shooting Rages to make up for poor shot placements or "Hail Mary shots" at bucks. Zach is pretty dang disciplined about what he does and how he does it. If he doesn't have the shot angle needed, he isn't throwing out a low percentage shot "because I am shooting my Rages."

I am going to have to listen to Jackalope or Milo on this one. I will listen to JBrown, Jesse, Kaiser, Tuffshot, or numerous others. Just about any of the guys on here that have killed their share of deer I will listen to. There have been a lot of deer killed by hunters on this forum by a lot of broad heads shot from numerous bow setups. I am sorry, but prior to ever killing a deer with my bow I had made a decision to go with fixed blades. I am not debating fixed blades vs mechanicals. My opinion goes to fixed blades just due to the "potential" for mechanical failure on a mechanical and the loss of KE. Now as to which fixed blade to go with, I am not sure it matters as much as your shot placement. However, there is always that tree limb or flinch or buck fever that is the error of the hunter. For this reason, there will always be a debate about which fixed blade is best. In all reality, it probably should be determined more by your bow setup which one is "best" rather than opinion.

As for what I use? I have used Muzzy 3 blades since I started archery hunting in 2009. Here are the three deer I have killed with them and what pictures I have of the holes left. Wish I had better pictures of last years buck exit hole. Can't believe I forgot to take a picture of the exit. Dang.
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i want to make one thing clear...don't shoot what i shoot because i tell ya to shoot it. ask the questions and educate yourself. there are principles that will be viable for each head. i would much rather discuss that than what head is better. again each head will perform better in certain scenarios. its our job to understand them. for example the bending rages..they bend because of the slenderness ratio and the cross sectional area that is removed for blade deployment. That's an easy one to see. ( for me anyway) ..for tricks, the blades see the majority of the negative forces and are weakest at where the cross section area is the least or where the cross section area changes force plane's like Jackolope's head shows. two reasons that blade broke are because it is at a transition point in material( rounded cut out changes from void area to solid metal) and tit happens to be the weakest point furthest from the center of the head. Tricks blade angles also apply forces in a very hard directions...There are fewer (resistive) forces acting on the stinger with a lower blade angle than the tricks with their high blade angle.
 
Milo said:
i want to make one thing clear...don't shoot what i shoot because i tell ya to shoot it. ask the questions and educate yourself. there are principles that will be viable for each head. i would much rather discuss that than what head is better. again each head will perform better in certain scenarios. its our job to understand them. for example the bending rages..they bend because of the slenderness ratio and the cross sectional area that is removed for blade deployment. That's an easy one to see. ( for me anyway) ..for tricks, the blades see the majority of the negative forces and are weakest at where the cross section area is the least or where the cross section area changes force plane's like Jackolope's head shows. two reasons that blade broke are because it is at a transition point in material( rounded cut out changes from void area to solid metal) and tit happens to be the weakest point furthest from the center of the head. Tricks blade angles also apply forces in a very hard directions...There are fewer (resistive) forces acting on the stinger with a lower blade angle than the tricks with their high blade angle.
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I agree! Again tho I repeat...every deer I tracked with the hounds that didnt die was shot with a rage. every one...so my opinion makes me say Ill never buy them with my loses and tracking experiences. As for the spitfires? Im using a much weaker bow now so I dont think I want to count on them. This is an AWSOME discussion
 
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i want to make one thing clear...don't shoot what i shoot because i tell ya to shoot it. ask the questions and educate yourself.
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I agree Milo. Just pointed out you two because your knowledge far exceeds mine. Just giving you credit where you deserve it. My knowledge is limited to what i know. It grows from experience, and many on here have more experience then me. I was pointing the mic to you guys simply because you are better educated in these fields than I am.

To me, common sense tells me if there is something mechanical, then it has the chance to fail. Simple physics tells me they rob KE when they deploy as well. Those are the 2 reasons I shoot fixed blades. Outside of that, I know the Muzzy's have worked for me, but lack the ability to speak for the variety of broad heads some of you guys have killed deer with.
 
I posted a big, long winded reply and the SOB wouldn't let me post it!

Anyway, as Milo said, all heads have inherit weak spots. The most durable replacement blade head I have ever shot was the Muzzy 130x4. I shot 'em out of a Martin Fury shoving an almost 700 grain arrow at 265 fps. That sucker would rock a deer, and when purposely shot through the point of the shoulder, would drop them flat. I also used Phantom 125x4 (long before Muzzy bought them) to try shoulder shots with horrible results. The Phantoms were entirely too weak to take that kind of abuse. Thunderheads didn't penetrate worth a crap. Muzzy's would zip through the point of a shoulder and blow out the back ham of quartered-to deer with no issue. The blades would bend, but the ferrule remained straight!

After I got away from heavy bows and arrows, I shot Muzzy 100x3 for several years. I never had a negative experience with them. They were always straight and intact after killing deer. Most of the time I would just re-sharpen the blades and shoot another.

I've been shooting mechanicals out of my compounds for the last seven or eight years. I nolonger care too much about how strong they are, as I am pretty sure I am not going to hunt elephant any time soon. A deer is a pretty fragile critter, and it doesn't take an exceptionally strong head to do the job provided you just shoot 'em through the ribs.

I have not shot any of the new, shorter versions of Muzzy, but I suspect they are built as durable as the older models I used for years. My experience with ST's is admittedly limited, but I will say that if I were still concerned about using the strongest head available, it wouldn't be a ST!

BTW, if I ever did hunt elephant, I'd sharpen up some of my 25 yr old Zwickey's...now that is a tough head!
 
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hickslawns said:
I agree Milo. Just pointed out you two because your knowledge far exceeds mine. Just giving you credit where you deserve it. My knowledge is limited to what i know. It grows from experience, and many on here have more experience then me. I was pointing the mic to you guys simply because you are better educated in these fields than I am.

To me, common sense tells me if there is something mechanical, then it has the chance to fail. Simple physics tells me they rob KE when they deploy as well. Those are the 2 reasons I shoot fixed blades. Outside of that, I know the Muzzy's have worked for me, but lack the ability to speak for the variety of broad heads some of you guys have killed deer with.
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Looking at the design of mechanicals as you would any other head, there are some that simply CANNOT fail to open. What I have come to like best are the heads some frown on do to their percieved KE theft required to open. A simple rubber band style. Advertisers make them sound like the devil when they are selling Rage type heads, but they will open EVERY time, and provided you aren't holding them shut with dry-rotted rubber bands, they will stay closed in flight. Some say you can't shoot quartering game with them too... I say BS, depending on the head design - again as Milo said, look at what you are about to shoot. Common sense generally dictates what any given head is capable of. I hope to God above the slip-cam style never puts the good ol rubber band style out of business, because they are fool-proof.
 
brock ratcliff said:
I posted a big, long winded reply and the SOB wouldn't let me post it!

Anyway, as Milo said, all heads have inherit weak spots. The most durable replacement blade head I have ever shot was the Muzzy 130x4. I shot 'em out of a Martin Fury shoving an almost 700 grain arrow at 265 fps. That sucker would rock a deer, and when purposely shot through the point of the shoulder, would drop them flat. I also used Phantom 125x4 (long before Muzzy bought them) to try shoulder shots with horrible results. The Phantoms were entirely too weak to take that kind of abuse. Thunderheads didn't penetrate worth a crap. Muzzy's would zip through the point of a shoulder and blow out the back ham of quartered-to deer with no issue. The blades would bend, but the ferrule remained straight!

After I got away from heavy bows and arrows, I shot Muzzy 100x3 for several years. I never had a negative experience with them. They were always straight and intact after killing deer. Most of the time I would just re-sharpen the blades and shoot another.

I've been shooting mechanicals out of my compounds for the last seven or eight years. I know longer care too much about how strong they are, as I am pretty sure I am not going to hunt elephant any time soon. A deer is a pretty fragile critter, and it doesn't take an exceptionally strong head to do the job provided you just shoot 'em through the ribs.

I have not shot any of the new, shorter versions of Muzzy, but I suspect they are built as durable as the older models I used for years. My experience with ST's is admittedly limited, but I will say that if I were still concerned about using the strongest head available, it wouldn't be a ST!

BTW, if I ever did hunt elephant, I'd sharpen up some of my 25 yr old Zwickey's...now that is a tough head!
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Got your text last night brock... I'll have to get the pic off my phone when i get back home...

The two heads had broke blades in the deer. One spine shot one shoulder shot, and the other broke the blades when you were using a BH wrench to take the last one off the shaft this year... Dude it sounds to me like you got some bad blades... Sure i've heard of people breaking a blade here or there on hard bone.... But all 3 in one pack and one while using a BH wrench? They sound like a bad batch to me. If you want, Contact Garry on AT.. Ask if he saw any QC issues a year ago.. I'm sure he'll send you a whole new pack.. I was looking on AT today and saw only about 7-9 threads ever where people broke a ST... And each time Garry was super interested in getting the broke head back to look at it and to send the guy a new pack of heads.
 
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My spitfire record. Not counting does and small bucks. First big buck straight down 3 inches from center spine barley behind the shoulder. Didnt go 50 yards. Second big buck Jumped the string and looong shot went straight through both back legs, got the main (lucky me) dropped at less than 100 yards. Last big buck, quartering towards. went 40 yards and fell, slid down the cliff. See why its hard to get away from them? Lol. But im still listening. One lucky break on a doe from a nosebleed treestand - same as the one buck. Distance and string jump. Got the back leg. As she ran the tip of the spit cut her open and gutted her for me. 100 yards down and no entrails cut - Now theres a tool, LMAO!!
 
haha...I think you've been in my barn, I don't need anymore broadheads. I certainly wouldn't say they didn't perform as they should, the deer is dead. I'm just saying I think Muzzy makes, or at least did make, a far superior product based entirely on what I have seen. I swear, I have shot them into a lot of things I shouldn't have, and couldn't hurt them. Did I ever tell you about the one I ran right up through 6 vertibrae? Still got it out there somewhere...still straight. Then again, I don't think you really need a "strong" head to kill a deer. Some things are just over-rated. Heck, Hoot has gone from shooting them with rocks to shooting 'em with broken glass!
 
Oh and I almost forgot. My first buck at ten yard with a Spit to the spine....Spit was good and I kilt a doe with it as well the next day, didnt mean to use it but I forgot it was in my quiver still. Went straight through the doe , clean broadside at about 25 yards!
 
When I first started bowhunting, I was shooting Muzzy 125s (3-blade). The first deer I ever killed with my bow was spine-shot. He dropped in his tracks, then crawled into a fencerow. I then climbed down, walked over there and shot him again. Well, being a newb, I fuggin clipped his spine again, on accident. He died pretty quick. Anyhow, when I removed my arrows, BOTH muzzys were completely destroyed.... blades bent, broke, ferrules bent. That was the last time I shot a muzzy at anything. Of course, that was about 9 or 10 years ago, though.
 
Well as I said in another thread. After some shooting and adjusting today Im pretty damn confident in my Spitfires again now and I think I'll stick with em. W' see wht happens.
 
brock ratcliff said:
Looking at the design of mechanicals as you would any other head, there are some that simply CANNOT fail to open. What I have come to like best are the heads some frown on do to their percieved KE theft required to open. A simple rubber band style. Advertisers make them sound like the devil when they are selling Rage type heads, but they will open EVERY time, and provided you aren't holding them shut with dry-rotted rubber bands, they will stay closed in flight. Some say you can't shoot quartering game with them too... I say BS, depending on the head design - again as Milo said, look at what you are about to shoot. Common sense generally dictates what any given head is capable of. I hope to God above the slip-cam style never puts the good ol rubber band style out of business, because they are fool-proof.
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Nice to read a positive post on mechanicals. Not that I have that many, but all 6 of my archery kills were from mechanical heads. Five of six were complete passthroughs. The one that didn't was my fault. Terrible shot. Not sure what I did but I buried it in her hip. She laid down and pulled the arrow out. Found her dead about 90 minutes later. Thank God for the snow that day. I think about changing every now and then, but I'll keep shooting what I have on hand until they give me reason not to.
 
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