buyng recreational property

[Jamie]

I'm sure some of you have bought/sold hunting property, perhaps somebody here does it for a living. I'm running low on places to hunt, not the least bit interested in leasing, and able to buy a decent size parcel for hunting. I've been looking, although I do not have an agent yet.

I'm curious about peoples experience going through the process, mostly the formalities. I know what a good deer hunting property is and what I'm looking for in that respect, but the less than obvious do's and don'ts I'm not so sure about. any input welcomed.

 

[giles]

Mineral rights, easements, right of ways are all good things to be very aware of. Those basically give someone else permission to have access to your property.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Mineral rights, easements, right of ways are all good things to be very aware of. Those basically give someone else permission to have access to your property.

Yes. I spent 10 years researching and obtaining these rights, so I would be happy to help evaluate any should you get serious about a purchase Jamie.

I think the thing most folks do not consider when purchasing recreational property is the neighborhood. Using aerial photography, you can really assess the surrounding area for indicators of good/bad when it comes to contributing influences on your property. Hell, you can see my food plots on Google, so if you were looking to buy in my area, you would know that I'm managing the land and would make a good/bad neighbor as a result.

Earnest money goes a long way in being able to conduct a "boot leather" evaluation of the land also. My dad paid the family who owned the farm prior to us $100 for a weekend evaluation prior to purchase. That gave us the upperhand on the other group that was interested (as told to us later on). We were involved with purchasing a cherished family farm and being able to convey that we wanted the same thing allowed us to purchase it over the developer, who actually offered more money. Being able to read the situation and play your cards properly can be a big benefit in this type of search IMO.

Good luck Jamie!

 

[Dustinb80]

Yes. I spent 10 years researching and obtaining these rights, so I would be happy to help evaluate any should you get serious about a purchase Jamie.

I think the thing most folks do not consider when purchasing recreational property is the neighborhood. Using aerial photography, you can really assess the surrounding area for indicators of good/bad when it comes to contributing influences on your property. Hell, you can see my food plots on Google, so if you were looking to buy in my area, you would know that I'm managing the land and would make a good/bad neighbor as a result.

Earnest money goes a long way in being able to conduct a "boot leather" evaluation of the land also. My dad paid the family who owned the farm prior to us $100 for a weekend evaluation prior to purchase. That gave us the upperhand on the other group that was interested (as told to us later on). We were involved with purchasing a cherished family farm and being able to convey that we wanted the same thing allowed us to purchase it over the developer, who actually offered more money. Being able to read the situation and play your cards properly can be a big benefit in this type of search IMO.

Good luck Jamie!

Great intel Jesse.

 

[Jamie]

good stuff, thanks fellas. keep it coming

 

[Buckmaster]

Title search, getting to know your neighbors motives/interests, and water supply/access are probably the 3 top things I can think of.

 

[Jamie]

utilities/water are not a priority as I'm looking primarily for land with suitable (at least serviceable) habitat, topography, access for hunting not building. if they are present, that's just a bonus. getting to know the neighbors is probably one of the most important considerations now that I think about it. won't lenders do a title search? I'll be borrowing as much as I can.

 

[giles]

Personally, I’d stay away from agents that purchase the land before selling (mossy oak does this I think). They usually have obtained every possible money making opportunity for the land before selling it again.

Buying land that has been logged wouldn’t bother me. I’d prefer to buy one that needs logged, so I could recoup some of my money right away and help make it what I really wanted. (Dig a pond, food plots, habitat, ext)

Another thing I’ll be looking for is a property with a chance to grow. Something I’ll have a chance to add more property to in the future. If it doesn’t, it’d have to be backed up to a golf coarse/park/state land of some sort. Something that wasn’t going to turn into a damn apartment complex in ten or twenty years. I’d be pissed if I bought a 50 acre woods and the neighbor farmer died the following year...kids took over and sold it off for housing. Now you own a 50 acre kids playground, dog park, shooting range...blah blah blah, you get my point. I’d rather buy a little 10 acre patch in the middle of no mans land.

 

[bowhunter1023]

utilities/water are not a priority as I'm looking primarily for land with suitable (at least serviceable) habitat, topography, access for hunting not building. if they are present, that's just a bonus. getting to know the neighbors is probably one of the most important considerations now that I think about it. won't lenders do a title search? I'll be borrowing as much as I can.

Typically the title search is a Sellers cost and will be conducted by their attorney prior to closing. In my opinion, this happens too late in the game and could prevent some serious heartache if it were conducted immediately after signing an "Agreement in Principle" or similar document. The process is pretty simple once you've done it and some can even be conducted online now depending on document availibility. Again, if you get serious about a piece of ground and it would align with my travel schedule, I'd meet you at the courthouse for a "Title 101" crash course and we could expose any obvious defects fairly quickly. It would also give you an idea of liens or easements that would influence your offer.

 

[cspot]

Personally, I’d stay away from agents that purchase the land before selling (mossy oak does this I think). They usually have obtained every possible money making opportunity for the land before selling it again.

Buying land that has been logged wouldn’t bother me. I’d prefer to buy one that needs logged, so I could recoup some of my money right away and help make it what I really wanted. (Dig a pond, food plots, habitat, ext)

Another thing I’ll be looking for is a property with a chance to grow. Something I’ll have a chance to add more property to in the future. If it doesn’t, it’d have to be backed up to a golf coarse/park/state land of some sort. Something that wasn’t going to turn into a damn apartment complex in ten or twenty years. I’d be pissed if I bought a 50 acre woods and the neighbor farmer died the following year...kids took over and sold it off for housing. Now you own a 50 acre kids playground, dog park, shooting range...blah blah blah, you get my point. I’d rather buy a little 10 acre patch in the middle of no mans land.

I don't believe that Mossy Oak does this. Bruner Land I know does.

 

[cspot]

Typically the title search is a Sellers cost and will be conducted by their attorney prior to closing. In my opinion, this happens too late in the game and could prevent some serious heartache if it were conducted immediately after signing an "Agreement in Principle" or similar document. The process is pretty simple once you've done it and some can even be conducted online now depending on document availibility. Again, if you get serious about a piece of ground and it would align with my travel schedule, I'd meet you at the courthouse for a "Title 101" crash course and we could expose any obvious defects fairly quickly. It would also give you an idea of liens or easements that would influence your offer.

Yep. Title search is down prior to closing. I believe the buyer pays for the title search unless there is an agreement. I know I paid for mine, but it was pretty cheap. It was even insured but I do not remember how much coverage that was. I would not skimp to save money on a title search.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Yep. Title search is down prior to closing. I believe the buyer pays for the title search unless there is an agreement. I know I paid for mine, but it was pretty cheap. It was even insured but I do not remember how much coverage that was. I would not skimp to save money on a title search.

Agreed.

My belief is the burden of proof on title falls on the seller. If they indeed purchased (or hold a lein on) a piece of real estate, they did so with "assumed" clear title. My assumption is that they then are selling me this real estate with clear title and it would be fraud to do so otherwise, unless of course their title search was faulty via neglect not their own. That said, I'm just a former landman who trained under attorneys and there is certainly an argument for that burden to be flipped to the purchaser who just make an educated purchase. As a lender, I'm not lending you the money until I see it's for an asset with clear title, but I care not who conducts it or pays for it so long as it's done and compliant.

I'd add that negotiations over closing costs can flip the burden as well, regardless of who "should" bare said burden.

 

[MK111]

Title search right a closing is a must. Years ago as a Finance Mgr. I placed a property lien on a past due account. Couple years later I go back and the property is a parking lot for a local plant.
Followup search found out our lien was by chance was placed the day before the property was sold to the plant. The plant closing attorney had to pay off out property lien. The funny part was the closing attorney for the plant was then the county prosecuting attorney of Allan County.

 

[cspot]

If you are planning on borrowing, then the 1st thing you need to do is get your finances in order. Alot of banks are very apprehensive or won't do land only loans. Also many require 25% down and alot of the terms are only for like 10 years. The rates are usually a little higher as well than a regular mortgage. A better way to do it is if you have equity in your home is to do a home equity line of credit or remortgage on your current home. Many of these recreational properties especially the smaller cheaper ones go really quick if they are at the right price. You need to move quickly when they do and knowing what you can afford helps alot.

Anymore you really don't need a real estate agent. I had saved searches on landwatch.com and that gave me all the leads that I needed. I also had searches on realtor.com and I checked out Bruner's Land site as well. I will say that in SE Ohio I think every property that I went to look at ended up being Mossy Oak Properties. The agent that was selling the property was a big help with the transaction and they have a couple of banks that will do land-only loans. I didn't use them but used equity in my home instead.

A suggestion that I have is if you do a saved search expand your search criteria. For example I was really looking for over 25 acres, but I found 13 that had national forest on 2 sides. Location and everything else was perfect so we ended up buying.

Message me if you want the name and number of the broker that I used.

 

[cspot]

Agreed.

My belief is the burden of proof on title falls on the seller. If they indeed purchased (or hold a lein on) a piece of real estate, they did so with "assumed" clear title. My assumption is that they then are selling me this real estate with clear title and it would be fraud to do so otherwise, unless of course their title search was faulty via neglect not their own. That said, I'm just a former landman who trained under attorneys and there is certainly an argument for that burden to be flipped to the purchaser who just make an educated purchase. As a lender, I'm not lending you the money until I see it's for an asset with clear title, but I care not who conducts it or pays for it so long as it's done and compliant.

I'd add that negotiations over closing costs can flip the burden as well, regardless of who "should" bare said burden.

Agree.

Just an example. I just looked and my total closing costs were $499.12. $45 was the county costs. So about $450 was closing fee, title search, title insurance, etc. All in all that is pretty cheap to know you have a clear property.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Agree.

Just an example. I just looked and my total closing costs were $499.12. $45 was the county costs. So about $450 was closing fee, title search, title insurance, etc. All in all that is pretty cheap to know you have a clear property.

Cheap peace of mind while you're at the cabin ain't it!?!

 

[cspot]

Cheap peace of mind while you're at the cabin ain't it!?!

Definitely.

 

[Jackalope]

Fuckin title companies. Not to derail your thread Jamie but some personal experience on what jackasses they are. After my divorce, my divorce decree said that she would relinquish all rights to the property and would sign a quit claim deed. We had one drawn up and both signed and notarized it. I then went to refinance the loan to get her name off the mortgage. 5/3 Bank uses a third party title company and i figured I'd just let them file the quit claim when they file the title. They said that there was an issue with the quick claim and I would need to redo it. I had the title company send me their template and went through the process of getting her to sign and notarize everything again. I took it to the Clerk of Courts and filed it myself and the County Auditor accepted it and removed her name from the property.

Moved forward with the refinance and closed on the loan. 6 months later I get a call from 5/3 saying there was a problem with the quit claim that I provided as evidence to the title company. I called the title company and listen to some shithead intern page flipper try to explain why there was a problem with the quit claim, THAT THEY PROVIDED ME. I finally drug it out of him that it was their insurance underwriter who had the problem. So the problem is not with the county Clerk of Courts, the county Auditor, the mortgage holder, or even the title insurance company.

The title company underwriter eventually calls me like a month later to explain that he believes the document could be challenged in court because the signature line said "grantor" and not her full legal name. I pointed out to the dumbass that the first mention of her full legal name said "hence forth known as Grantor". He acknowledged that but tried to say that it only applied to the body of the document and not the notary section of the document. Keep in mind the auditor has already accepted this document and removed her from the property, and the loan is long closed, not to mention the title company is who provided the document.

I called the Fifth Third lending agent back and told him I would not be redoing the quick claim as a new quit claim would invalidate the previous one which would then be dated after the loan closing. If i did that, then she would have a very solid legal standing that both the bank and I fraudulently refinanced the loan while she still had interest in the property. For her thats a way better legal standing than some stupid "grantor" issue that some paralegal thinks is an issue.

I even contacted the notary and his attorney said the underwriter was full of shit. I called Fifth Third and told them that the underwriting of their third party title insurance company is not my problem; and maybe they should find someone else to write the title insurance. Short of a judge invalidating the title by throwing out the filed and accepted quit claim deed its not getting redone.

Haven't heard a thing in three years.

 

[brock ratcliff]

Avoid buying near Amish. Just my .02.

 

[Bigslam51]

Avoid buying near Amish. Just my .02.

X2.