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Deer Management Stakeholder Organization.

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And the fact I can shoot two in van wert county where I live and drive 1/4 mile and shoot two in mercer. And then go 20 minutes to auglaize and shoot two more. They need to go back to zones and more detailed zone maps. Also Change gun season bag limits so the deer drivers can't slaughter everything in there path.


 
Most of the people I know doing deer drives anymore don't kill doe's, they are all buck hunters trying to flush that bad boy out during shooting hours. It ain't like the old days of "brown is down". Deer drivers also do some good work on coyotes. They work as a team and it's a great way to introduce youth, as it never gets boring… Sorry bud, even though I haven't been part of a deer drive in a bunch of years, I still think they are a lot of fun and wouldn't say no to getting back into it. It's todays hunters that are all about themselves that have stopped this. We used to drive miles up in NW Ohio growing up. You simply can't do that anymore with leases and people only thinking about themselves.

If we are going to change bag limits for a group, it should be for public land hunters. NR are buck only and residents are only aloud 2 deer state wide, only one antlered.
 
I'd have to disagree with you on the deer drives being a great way to introduce youth to the outdoors! I'm 100% against all party hunting and I'd wish they banned it! They're no hunting involved when 20 guys are pushing deer and 4 trucks are on the roads with their cb's/cellphones..I know this bc I'm in Northwest Ohio and I see it every year...imo I think the deer drivers around me are the main reason for the decline in population!
 
mercercountyhunter said:
And the fact I can shoot two in van wert county where I live and drive 1/4 mile and shoot two in mercer. And then go 20 minutes to auglaize and shoot two more. They need to go back to zones and more detailed zone maps. Also Change gun season bag limits so the deer drivers can't slaughter everything in there path.
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I'd venture to say everyone could drive 20 minutes and be in another county to hunt. IMO, there's no easy fix for the pockets of high or low density deer populations we have all over the state. You are going to have areas that will have more deer than others where people complain they should be able to kill more deer. Then you drive five minutes down the road and people are claiming the sky is falling and the population is on a steep decline.

I'll be honest, I would like to see the state set a lower total bag limit on deer, not just the county or zone limits. With either sex tags, you could kill what, six deer last year? I'd like to see that cut back to two or three. I also would like to see these "outfitters" popping up everywhere pay some time of yearly fee to keep their business in the state. Maybe based on the number of deer clients kill. I'd also like to see the state force outfitters to register all tracks of land they lease/own and where each deer killed with them was taken. There is an outfitter in my area that had at least 12 kills this year on less than 600 acres total this past season. I can guarantee everyone is feeling the pain around him, where as the county in general has a higher than normal deer population.

Just my $.02
 
Hunters are the key to the whole situation. We have to take responsibility and quit waiting for the bag limits to lower or the DOW to make changes. When we point a finger at someone we also have three fingers pointing back at ourself. If we want to see more deer in the future then we have to stop killing does today. Take a season or two off of killing does where you hunt and you'll be amazed at how quickly things can change. Work with neighboring hunters to encourage them to do the same. Pretty soon you'll have an adequate number of does running around to where you can start filling a doe tag if needed. If you're lucky to hunt in an area with plenty of does, work to make sure it stays that way. Nobody makes us kill a deer. Hunters have a strong voice in this matter, we just need to be clear and unified in how we will be part of the solution. It is hunters who can control the destiny of deer hunting in this state.
 
killbucks22 said:
I'd have to disagree with you on the deer drives being a great way to introduce youth to the outdoors! I'm 100% against all party hunting and I'd wish they banned it! They're no hunting involved when 20 guys are pushing deer and 4 trucks are on the roads with their cb's/cellphones..I know this bc I'm in Northwest Ohio and I see it every year...imo I think the deer drivers around me are the main reason for the decline in population!
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Well I live here to and have seen exactly what you are talking about. Growing up in Wood County and now living here in Hancock County, it happens all over. But they are a minority. So we should completely outlaw a great way of hunting because of a bunch of slobs who road hunt? Do what we did: Drive the local GW nuts with calls and tips about who exactly it is that is road hunting, Eventually they will act on the info and start showing up. It worked around here and in Southern Wood County.

That would be like banning Xbow hunting cuz you buy into the "Instant hunter, just add Xbow" narrative some people push to explain high numbers of wounded deer during archery. The sooner you realize that all these forms of hunting are the DNR's tool for herd control, and that we are being misled, you'll stop the blame game towards other hunters and realize there is a bigger problem that goes right to the top
 
Just reading a couple pages of this makes me think it's going to be pretty damn hard to get a big group of deer hunters to agree on anything. Good luck to everyone involved, you're gonna need it.
 
All this deer driving/not deer driving, bag limits too high/low, kill does/not kill does, NR fees too low, just don't pull the trigger shit is just pissing into the wind. The DNR will do as it sees fit until hunters have a unified, coherent, organized, educated voice that advocates on the hunter's behalf WITHOUT being all snuggled up with the very same folks that institute the regulations that reduced the populations to levels that a growing number of hunters are now unhappy with. The advocates for low population levels get it! They put any differences aside and push their common agenda. We have no unified voice and it seems like we never will.

Relying on self-restraint is what all but wiped out the whitetail and wild turkey across much of the country. Regulations are what built the herd up from almost nothing and regulations are what brought it to where it is today.
 
Joel said:
Just reading a couple pages of this makes me think it's going to be pretty damn hard to get a big group of deer hunters to agree on anything. Good luck to everyone involved, you're gonna need it.
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I've said the same thing before. Even the small group on this site can't agree on much. I've come to the conclusion that I will do what pleases me and feel is best for the property I hunt. That is in reality all anyone can do.

I've been in Sean's camp for a while, let the does walk. But, that is my way of thinking and not how others think. I'll keep letting does and small bucks have the pass and take a good buck every few years if I get the chance. This is how I enjoy hunting, but it is not everyones cup of tea.
 
Lots of interesting reading on this thread.

Does anyone else find it ironic that so many want the DOW to help gain access to those pockets of high density deer? Doesn't it seem ironic that we want to get into those areas to kill off what remains? Ha. This is exactly why we need a DOW to limit the harvest.
 
brock ratcliff said:
Lots of interesting reading on this thread.

Does anyone else find it ironic that so many want the DOW to help gain access to those pockets of high density deer? Doesn't it seem ironic that we want to get into those areas to kill off what remains? Ha. This is exactly why we need a DOW to limit the harvest.
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Thats what we do, we kill shit. We are the best tool they have, we are just doing what we do.
 
Fluteman said:
I'd venture to say everyone could drive 20 minutes and be in another county to hunt. IMO, there's no easy fix for the pockets of high or low density deer populations we have all over the state. You are going to have areas that will have more deer than others where people complain they should be able to kill more deer. Then you drive five minutes down the road and people are claiming the sky is falling and the population is on a steep decline.

I'll be honest, I would like to see the state set a lower total bag limit on deer, not just the county or zone limits. With either sex tags, you could kill what, six deer last year? I'd like to see that cut back to two or three. I also would like to see these "outfitters" popping up everywhere pay some time of yearly fee to keep their business in the state. Maybe based on the number of deer clients kill. I'd also like to see the state force outfitters to register all tracks of land they lease/own and where each deer killed with them was taken. There is an outfitter in my area that had at least 12 kills this year on less than 600 acres total this past season. I can guarantee everyone is feeling the pain around him, where as the county in general has a higher than normal deer population.

Just my $.02
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Just to add to the outfitter thing. I would like the state to put a maximum of land acres that can be held by a single outfitter as well. Especially continues acres. There is no reason a single outfitter needs more then 1500-2k acres.

Just 2 of the outfitters combined own over 15k acres
 
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Fluteman said:
I'd venture to say everyone could drive 20 minutes and be in another county to hunt. IMO, there's no easy fix for the pockets of high or low density deer populations we have all over the state. You are going to have areas that will have more deer than others where people complain they should be able to kill more deer. Then you drive five minutes down the road and people are claiming the sky is falling and the population is on a steep decline.

I'll be honest, I would like to see the state set a lower total bag limit on deer, not just the county or zone limits. With either sex tags, you could kill what, six deer last year? I'd like to see that cut back to two or three. I also would like to see these "outfitters" popping up everywhere pay some time of yearly fee to keep their business in the state. Maybe based on the number of deer clients kill. I'd also like to see the state force outfitters to register all tracks of land they lease/own and where each deer killed with them was taken. There is an outfitter in my area that had at least 12 kills this year on less than 600 acres total this past season. I can guarantee everyone is feeling the pain around him, where as the county in general has a higher than normal deer population.

Just my $.02
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Think all of us are in agreement that outfitters in Ohio will ruin Ohio hunting if it hasn't already. This is not west where we are killing moose, bear, or elk and the terrain is extreme and you can walk public land for 10 days without seeing another human. Its freaking Ohio, go we really need outfitters?
 
BigCountry40 said:
Think all of us are in agreement that outfitters in Ohio will ruin Ohio hunting if it hasn't already. This is not west where we are killing moose, bear, or elk and the terrain is extreme and you can walk public land for 10 days without seeing another human. Its freaking Ohio, go we really need outfitters?
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I'm not so sure "outfitters" are going to ruin the hunting in Ohio, in fact I'll say this is the furthest from the truth... About the only detrimental thing they may do is lease up some land that before hand was available to someone to hunt. That I will agree with you 100%. But put a hurt on the deer herd.. Absolutely Not!!!!! If anything they are going to improve the deer herd in the area. Most have antler restrictions in place and some don't even want you shooting does.. Shoot a sub-par buck and odds are your getting fined $500.00 and asked not to come back.. They are in a business and want customers to come back and pass the word that they had a good hunt.. Only way this happens is if customers see deer and harvest quality bucks. This ain't happening if they have a "BROWN ITS DOWN PHILOSOPHY"... They want a thriving deer herd.. You would be in Seventh Heaven to find a small piece of property in amongst 1000's of acres leased by an outfitter.. Bet you'd shoot 140+ deer every year.. Think you have that chance on a farm that is surrounded with guys that don't practice QDM and have that brown its down attitude???

And why in the hell would guy's want to open up areas that are closed to hunting??? Just to wipe those deer out TOO.. Again these areas help the surrounding areas improve their population...
 
Fletch said:
I'm not so sure "outfitters" are going to ruin the hunting in Ohio, in fact I'll say this is the furthest from the truth... About the only detrimental thing they may do is lease up some land that before hand was available to someone to hunt. That I will agree with you 100%. But put a hurt on the deer herd.. Absolutely Not!!!!! If anything they are going to improve the deer herd in the area. Most have antler restrictions in place and some don't even want you shooting does.. Shoot a sub-par buck and odds are your getting fined $500.00 and asked not to come back.. They are in a business and want customers to come back and pass the word that they had a good hunt.. Only way this happens is if customers see deer and harvest quality bucks. This ain't happening if they have a "BROWN ITS DOWN PHILOSOPHY"... They want a thriving deer herd.. You would be in Seventh Heaven to find a small piece of property in amongst 1000's of acres leased by an outfitter.. Bet you'd shoot 140+ deer every year.. Think you have that chance on a farm that is surrounded with guys that don't practice QDM and have that brown its down attitude???
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Evidently you haven't had many encounters with "outfitters." I agree that quality outfitters run a tight ship (or try to), and try to manage their herd the best they can. However, I can reassure you that for every quality outfitter you find in Ohio, there are two or three fly-by-night "outfitters" that don't care how many deer they kill, how big the bucks are, or how they go about making sure clients kill deer. I think you would be surprised how many people will pay good money to come to Ohio and sit over a pile of corn on 13 acres for five days to kill a 110" deer. Now, I'm not diminishing ones idea of a trophy deer, but rather that there are outfits out there strictly for the money, and plenty of people in line to pay to hunt! I've seen first hand the results of these types of operations. I'm all for a guy making money, and piles of it, but there needs to be some type of restrictions on how these guys can operate.
 
Curran said:
Hunters are the key to the whole situation. We have to take responsibility and quit waiting for the bag limits to lower or the DOW to make changes. When we point a finger at someone we also have three fingers pointing back at ourself. If we want to see more deer in the future then we have to stop killing does today. Take a season or two off of killing does where you hunt and you'll be amazed at how quickly things can change. Work with neighboring hunters to encourage them to do the same. Pretty soon you'll have an adequate number of does running around to where you can start filling a doe tag if needed. If you're lucky to hunt in an area with plenty of does, work to make sure it stays that way. Nobody makes us kill a deer. Hunters have a strong voice in this matter, we just need to be clear and unified in how we will be part of the solution. It is hunters who can control the destiny of deer hunting in this state.
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This. This. This!

Just because you can doesn't mean you should...
 
brock ratcliff said:
Lots of interesting reading on this thread.

Does anyone else find it ironic that so many want the DOW to help gain access to those pockets of high density deer? Doesn't it seem ironic that we want to get into those areas to kill off what remains? Ha. This is exactly why we need a DOW to limit the harvest.
Click to expand...

This.

Let's use driving and a speed limit as an example. If we didn't have regulations, people would do as they please. Instead, regulations are put in place, everyone then "should not" go over that limit. Those who choose to stay under that limit are fine. The speed limit is set by a slew of inputs (crash data, vehicles traveling it (think 18wheeler vs. 4wheeler), $ back in pockets from tickets, etc.)

The ODNR sets the speed limit. People are welcome to do as they please up to that limit (i.e. don't shoot a doe, shoot a doe, fill all tags - don't care). The limit is in place for the "best fit" for the slew of variables. If the variables change, so does the speed limit (think improvements in crash safety, type of transportation, etc.). You are welcome to do as you please but you do not have an impact on the speed limit (no matter how much you think you are) based on the slew of variables used to set it in the first place because meanwhile the majority of the population is pushing the max. Therefore, it is the responsible of a governing agency to set the regulation (i.e. max). If there was a united voice and a united voice to group together to educate and actually change the thinking, THEN (maybe) the herd would grow to a size that the variable used would alter the outcome. Until then, you are living in a make-believe world that what you do on your 50-300 acre land is making a difference for the whole.

Throw in WHY people drive and it gets even more complex. Most because they have to for work (meat hunter), some because they want to enjoy scenery on a Sunday drive (trophy hunter) or others because it's the only place to do so to open up the new 500hp engine they built in the garage (try out the new straight-walled rifle).
 
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Reread the thread and then you will see who is living in the make-believe world. Thinking that the hunting public is going to form a united front is a pipe dream IMO. It is actually senseless to debate this subject, because we will all agree to disagree. And we are a tiny segment of the hunting public. I wish I could be more optimistic, but I'd only be fooling myself.
 
Dick, not sure where you read that I think a united front will happen. While I appreciate the suggestion, I don't need to reread something that I follow daily. I would love to support a united front but don't believe it will happen. Therefore, a governing agency is where I feel the ownership lies (you will find I have not wavered on this in any of my posts regarding this matter). I fully respect yours and others choices to be selective in what you harvest but WHY you hunt vs. WHY I hunt are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm driving to work, not on a Sunday drive.....

You are free to stay in your lane, do 60 in a 70mph zone, but I question how anyone has the right to say that those doing the speed limit are wrong and are the ones responsible for changing the limit.
 
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