Down 29%

[RedCloud]

Lots of guys have trouble killing one deer, increasing the limit doesn't make much a difference to a high percentage of hunters. What is the # Rex has posted only something like 1.5% of the hunters tag 3 or more deer statewide. Using 4 tags is highly unlikely for all but a few, especially in a place like Crawford. What it does though is shut up some critics of the "large" herd, ODNR can say they have expanded the limit.

I know it is a fine balancing act that the ODNR tries to do each year but it's still ridiculous to expand the bag limits like they have. What it does is gives hunters a thought in their heads " Hey, The ODNR lets us shoot 6 deer so we must have a bunch around here " only to have the guy go out and spend money,sit in a tree for hours,spend more money, and then harvest just one deer.

Hmmm. Now that I put it on paper I can see what they are doing.

Giving hunters false sense in their abilities because they raised amount of tags yet we hunters can't seem to find the deer the state says we have so they (the hunters) spend more money on hunting products that the state gets a cut of.

Pretty brilliant scheme they have going on their.

 

[Kaiser878]

I never said I thought they knew what they were doing. Show me where I said that! I will say this, now at this moment, in my county, we need a 6 deer bag limit!!!!!!!! We have more deer now than we ever have, and we also have more hunters now than we ever have! I cant speak for your county, I have never hunted there, but I can speak for mine! I do not ever see us having a problem with our deer herds! I Could be wrong, I hope I am not though. When I can go out and sit in the stand from 2-dark in october and see 15+ deer, or sit from 2-dark in January and see 25+ deer, we obviously have a lot of deer!

Perhaps you do have a deer problem in your area, if this is the case you, brock and sean need to go to a meeting and be heard. Bitching on your own website solves nothing! Id be willing to help you if need be, Im that good of a friend!

 

[formerbowhunter1023]

Nothing chaps my a$$ more than the guy that complains about deer numbers and has a pickup full of carcuses and hunts until every tag he has in his pocket is used.

And nothing chaps my ass more than someone thinking they have a clue when their fucking clueless. Simply put, you don't have a clue dude. Let me know if I need to explain further because I'll be more than happy to learn you a thing or two...

 

[Jackalope]

I never said I thought they knew what they were doing. Show me where I said that! I will say this, now at this moment, in my county, we need a 6 deer bag limit!!!!!!!! We have more deer now than we ever have, and we also have more hunters now than we ever have! I cant speak for your county, I have never hunted there, but I can speak for mine! I do not ever see us having a problem with our deer herds! I Could be wrong, I hope I am not though. When I can go out and sit in the stand from 2-dark in october and see 15+ deer, or sit from 2-dark in January and see 25+ deer, we obviously have a lot of deer!

Perhaps you do have a deer problem in your area, if this is the case you, brock and sean need to go to a meeting and be heard. Bitching on your own website solves nothing! Id be willing to help you if need be, Im that good of a friend!

Perhaps i should have chosen another approach to making that point.. I wasn't going after you personally but the philosophy that only 1.5% kill more than 3 deer, therefor increased limits can't harm the population.. Which is in direct conflict with the management practices the DNR is using. I should have used more tact. Sorry

Now.. Is that 25 deer an evening on your property, or every property in the county? There is a huge difference between the two.. One property I have in Clark county is LOADED with turkeys.. I'm talking flocks of 30+ in 50 acres of woods... A mile away and miles beyond there isn't a single bird.. Does this mean we should open Clark county for fall turk hunting? Make Clark a 3 bird county? It is a phenomenal turk property chocked with dumb birds. Why are they there? Who knows. There isn't much difference in surrounding farms. Yet there they are.

Who knows why deer flock to one property VS another. I can say that properties close to residential neighborhoods, metro parks, and other sanctuaries will continue to see steady and even high numbers. And properties out in the sticks where hunting pressure is higher will continue to see the declines due to the new management practices.

As far as making our voices heard. I can do you one better.... Would talking with the head biologist of the DNR personally be good enough? I spoke with tonk in an email last year back and forth a couple times and still have his personal email address... Brock talked with him on the phone. You know what we heard?? Same old story, same old song and dance. Read from the script, these are not the droids you're looking for. It was an utter waste of time IMO.. They are going to do what they are going to do.. It was nice to hear that he mentioned brock later after this years kill numbers were down like 80% in Fayette and said "hey, that dumb hilljack might have been right.. (I haven't look at Fayette's actual numbers for the year. But i know they are probably horrendously low)

As I said.. Some of us can see exactly where this is heading.. And we want off this train to hell... We don't want 80% kill reductions before a light bulb comes on in Columbus and someone says "Oh, well, shit, that didn't work." Or maybe buddy, just maybe.. It is working just as planned...

 

[CJR123080]

And nothing chaps my ass more than someone thinking they have a clue when their fucking clueless. Simply put, you don't have a clue dude. Let me know if I need to explain further because I'll be more than happy to learn you a thing or two...

What are you talking about??? I was applauding you.. What don't I have a clue about exactly? Take a second and read my post before jumping down my back.

 

[formerbowhunter1023]

What are you talking about??? I was applauding you.. What don't I have a clue about exactly? Take a second and read my post before jumping down my back.

Shit man, I read it three times and thought the same thing each time! LOL!!! Sorry about that man. I thought it came from left field from you and that's why I was pissed. I read it like you were saying I had a truck full and was still hunting which is not true. My bad! I'm a retard!!! lol

 

[CJR123080]

Shit man, I read it three times and thought the same thing each time! LOL!!! Sorry about that man. I thought it came from left field from you and that's why I was pissed. I read it like you were saying I had a truck full and was still hunting which is not true. My bad! I'm a retard!!! lol

Not at all. I was by no means attacking you. Quite the opposite.

No worries. Back on track we go.

 

[Jackalope]

I however will throw this out there... I walked our lease again during muzzy with a 2-3 day snow on the ground.. I counted more tracks this year than last.. However not many. I would say a 10% increase.. I do attribute that to two things. 1. Abundant mast crop this year vs last. 2. The one crop off the back of our lease came out early this year.. By "early" I mean it wasn't up until early December like last year.. One of two things happened. Either my observation count last year was down 10% due to the crops and lack of mast. Or we have increased the population 10% over this year compared to last. Either way, i would say our deer numbers are down 50+ percent on our lease compared to 5 years ago.. However, we still have our shooter bucks.. For some strange reason i would say they are about the same as they've always been.. As a matter of fact i would say it's better.

With that being said.. I think i'm getting those goobers to see the light. Feeders galore are being planned for this summer. Is seven 50 gallon feeders in 250 acres of 15 year old pines too many? We got a slunger of a deal on corn.. Literally cheaper than dirt..

 

[Kaiser878]

I however will throw this out there... I walked our lease again during muzzy with a 2-3 day snow on the ground.. I counted more tracks this year than last.. However not many. I would say a 10% increase.. I do attribute that to two things. 1. Abundant mast crop this year vs last. 2. The one crop off the back of our lease came out early this year.. By "early" I mean it wasn't up until early December like last year.. One of two things happened. Either my observation count last year was down 10% due to the crops and lack of mast. Or we have increased the population 10% over this year compared to last. Either way, i would say our deer numbers are down 50+ percent on our lease compared to 5 years ago.. However, we still have our shooter bucks.. For some strange reason i would say they are about the same as they've always been.. As a matter of fact i would say it's better.With that being said.. I think i'm getting those goobers to see the light. Feeders galore are being planned for this summer. Is seven 50 gallon feeders in 250 acres of 15 year old pines too many? We got a slunger of a deal on corn.. Literally cheaper than dirt..

Do you think this is directly related to the decreased number of does? Perhaps your herd is more properly managed now?


I just may have a touch of ADD. When i go hunting I have to see deer, if I dont my mind starts whirling around until I figure something out. All the places I hunt seem to hold a lot of deer! The night I shot that doe after gun season I saw 20+ deer. THis was behind my house. My buddies farm is 1/2 mile away. These are not the same deer that are there. Occasionally bucks do overlap, but not to often do does. In one night we counted over 30 deer in one field. Drove to the other side of the property and counted 15 more deer in another field. Not to mention all the deer that were in our food plot at the exact same time, we realized this a day or so later when we checked the cam.

We drove around that night and within 10 miles of my house there were deer everywhere! Apparently my county has a very abundant deer herd. Even my worst farm that I have, meaning it gets harrassed the most, I saw a minimum of 4 or 5 deer a sit on average. Of course there are nights I get skunked, and man does that piss me off! I could care less if I see 20 deer in a sit or 3. Just so long as the three are of good, healthy quality!

I have several friends that hunt around the county, they to see lots and lots of deer on a consistant basis. We just have a very healthy deer herd! One thing I did notice this year in my area was a lack of triplets! Although, this could be due to us eliminating some of the 3 and 4+ y/o does that had been around for a while. I will say this, we had and kept more quality bucks around this year, than I have seen in a while! The farm that has been my bread and butter hasnt produced in two years for me, it is no longer my Number 1 spot. It is maybe 2 or 3. Why is this? Over killing of deer? Nope. Because it wasnt until this year that I shot my first doe there! Not many does get killed around there, I still saw a lot of deer. Just no mature shooter bucks. The only thingI can attribute this to is the increase in the number of hunters! One in particular who put his blind on the property line in one of the best "buck" bedrooms the farm has to offer. Coincidentaly, he didnt kill a buck this year. Last year he wounded 3 bucks, and was bragging abotu how atleast he hit them.

I see one factor that seperates your area and mine. That factor being large tracts of continuous timber. I think deer are able to hide better in large tracts of timber than they can in agriculterual areas! At some time in the year, those fields gotta get cut. In your area, the trees stay all year. I am not going to get into which area is harder to hunt deer in, they both have strong points nad both have weak points. Thats not what I am trying to prove though.

 

[jagermeister]

Dang.... deja vu lmao

 

[Jackalope]

Do you think this is directly related to the decreased number of does? Perhaps your herd is more properly managed now?


I just may have a touch of ADD. When i go hunting I have to see deer, if I dont my mind starts whirling around until I figure something out. All the places I hunt seem to hold a lot of deer! The night I shot that doe after gun season I saw 20+ deer. THis was behind my house. My buddies farm is 1/2 mile away. These are not the same deer that are there. Occasionally bucks do overlap, but not to often do does. In one night we counted over 30 deer in one field. Drove to the other side of the property and counted 15 more deer in another field. Not to mention all the deer that were in our food plot at the exact same time, we realized this a day or so later when we checked the cam.

We drove around that night and within 10 miles of my house there were deer everywhere! Apparently my county has a very abundant deer herd. Even my worst farm that I have, meaning it gets harrassed the most, I saw a minimum of 4 or 5 deer a sit on average. Of course there are nights I get skunked, and man does that piss me off! I could care less if I see 20 deer in a sit or 3. Just so long as the three are of good, healthy quality!

I have several friends that hunt around the county, they to see lots and lots of deer on a consistant basis. We just have a very healthy deer herd! One thing I did notice this year in my area was a lack of triplets! Although, this could be due to us eliminating some of the 3 and 4+ y/o does that had been around for a while. I will say this, we had and kept more quality bucks around this year, than I have seen in a while! The farm that has been my bread and butter hasnt produced in two years for me, it is no longer my Number 1 spot. It is maybe 2 or 3. Why is this? Over killing of deer? Nope. Because it wasnt until this year that I shot my first doe there! Not many does get killed around there, I still saw a lot of deer. Just no mature shooter bucks. The only thingI can attribute this to is the increase in the number of hunters! One in particular who put his blind on the property line in one of the best "buck" bedrooms the farm has to offer. Coincidentaly, he didnt kill a buck this year. Last year he wounded 3 bucks, and was bragging abotu how atleast he hit them.

I see one factor that seperates your area and mine. That factor being large tracts of continuous timber. I think deer are able to hide better in large tracts of timber than they can in agriculterual areas! At some time in the year, those fields gotta get cut. In your area, the trees stay all year. I am not going to get into which area is harder to hunt deer in, they both have strong points nad both have weak points. Thats not what I am trying to prove though.

Not really. I don't think it's due to "doe management".. We do have far less does and about the same number of shooter bucks as 5 years ago.. I contribute this to the buck limit staying the same, but a 100% increase in the doe limit. Like we always did for many years we shot the shit out of does. The population could take it and it never caused a reduction from one year to the next... But between EHD and the increased tags we started to have a very negative impact on our numbers. We have finally got that train stopped, changed some people set in their ways, and IMO are starting to rebuild. However it's going to be a long road..

Our neighbor is a new outfitter. He has more money than brains and basically owns the surrounding properties. He has started putting in food plots, feeders and the like. What we have started to see is deer coming out of our pines at night, crossing the road into his pines, and feeding at feeders and plots. Then coming back to our property. Strange considering the habitat on our place is almost identical to his with one exception. A 200 acre 3 year old natural growth clear cut with about 30 big standing oaks.. The plan.. Seven feeders on the far side of the pines from him and fertilize the oaks. Hopefully we can not only retain our deer but pirate his in the process.

I did say we had a better year than most on the property with bucks but both large bucks that were shot this year was due to chance. Blind luck.. Our larger deer are primarily noctournal and stay in the deep hollows and thick stuff. However.. Now that I'm running cams. I'm confident I'll catch one slipping next early season.

One guy who is color blind walked to his stand and tied his bow on.. There not 30 yards away a buck was bedded and just watched him until he saw it.. But his bow was already tied on and he couldn't get it around. The buck ran off maybe 400 yards around a ridge to his buddy who had just got in his stand and knocked and arrow.

The other was last weekend during a drive.. The buck was bedded about 60 yards up on the side of a hill... A stander was walking up the hollow to take his position.. He saw the deer but kept walking somewhat past it and watching it out the corner of his eye.. He walked behind a big tree and stopped.. As he peaked around the tree and leveled his muzzy the buck stood up to sneak out. Blam..

 

[jagermeister]

IMO, if you got that train stopped on your lease it shouldn't be that long of a road to recovery, Joe. Deer are prolific breeders... that's a fact. If you don't shoot the does, they'll probably increase three-fold in just two years.

 

[Kaiser878]

Not really. I don't think it's due to "doe management".. We do have far less does and about the same number of shooter bucks as 5 years ago.. I contribute this to the buck limit staying the same, but a 100% increase in the doe limit. Like we always did for many years we shot the shit out of does. The population could take it and it never caused a reduction from one year to the next... But between EHD and the increased tags we started to have a very negative impact on our numbers. We have finally got that train stopped, changed some people set in their ways, and IMO are starting to rebuild. However it's going to be a long road..

Our neighbor is a new outfitter. He has more money than brains and basically owns the surrounding properties. He has started putting in food plots, feeders and the like. What we have started to see is deer coming out of our pines at night, crossing the road into his pines, and feeding at feeders and plots. Then coming back to our property. Strange considering the habitat on our place is almost identical to his with one exception. A 200 acre 3 year old natural growth clear cut with about 30 big standing oaks.. The plan.. Seven feeders on the far side of the pines from him and fertilize the oaks. Hopefully we can not only retain our deer but pirate his in the process.

I did say we had a better year than most on the property with bucks but both large bucks that were shot this year was due to chance. Blind luck.. Our larger deer are primarily noctournal and stay in the deep hollows and thick stuff. However.. Now that I'm running cams. I'm confident I'll catch one slipping next early season.

One guy who is color blind walked to his stand and tied his bow on.. There not 30 yards away a buck was bedded and just watched him until he saw it.. But his bow was already tied on and he couldn't get it around. The buck ran off maybe 400 yards around a ridge to his buddy who had just got in his stand and knocked and arrow.

The other was last weekend during a drive.. The buck was bedded about 60 yards up on the side of a hill... A stander was walking up the hollow to take his position.. He saw the deer but kept walking somewhat past it and watching it out the corner of his eye.. He walked behind a big tree and stopped.. As he peaked around the tree and leveled his muzzy the buck stood up to sneak out. Blam..

It is not my property, and I realize there are more guys on this lease than just you! But convincing them to NOT drive deer would improve deer hunting by leaps and bounds! One thing that I know for a fact that is consistent with keeping big bucks or deer in general on a property is NO DRIVING!! Just out of curiosity, how many acres is this lease? I know you said before, but I forget. ALso, how many sanctuaries, if any do you guys have designated?

 

[Diablo54]

It is not my property, and I realize there are more guys on this lease than just you! But convincing them to NOT drive deer would improve deer hunting by leaps and bounds! One thing that I know for a fact that is consistent with keeping big bucks or deer in general on a property is NO DRIVING!! Just out of curiosity, how many acres is this lease? I know you said before, but I forget. ALso, how many sanctuaries, if any do you guys have designated?

This is the first year in quite a few years that we havent done a drive or two behind the house and imo it really changed things. We have never had so many pictures of bucks back there as we do now.


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[Jackalope]

the lease is about 890 acres. With permission on 1000 or so more... I would agree with the driving concept except. This is southern Ohio. Every ridge gets driven durring shotgun. Not this property and that property. Every property. So. Its not going to run them out of the area. They have nowhere to go. What they have perfected is holding tight in cover and doubling back. 99 times out of 100 a buck will not move directly away from a pusher or break cover.

What it would help with is the nocturnal nature of the bucks post gun season. Pre gun they can be found durring the day. Post gun you better be in the thick of it.

the property is a. Mile long ridge and a big hollow of 45 year old mixed hardwoods. 250 acres of thick 15 year old pines, 200 acre 3 yo natural growth clear cut

Closest ag to the clear cut and pines is two miles away. The end of the mile long hardwoods ridge butts up to it. Surrounding properties for miles is ridges and hollows like wnf except with diverse habitat pines, clear cuts, hardwoods etc.

Nobody for miles really bowhunts. 6-7 of us bowhunt it. With half of them only the rut and 1 or 2 weekends.

But come shotgun. The surrounding woods come alive with civil war esq gunfire. I'm talking 80+ shots before 10 an within hearing distance.

I will never ever ever convince them to quit driving. However this year seven of us refused to drive the first 5 days.. Saying you guys can do what you want but were still hunting. Let me tell ya buddy. That sent some of those one week a year hunters through the roof. They wanted to drive and didn't have enough people. By Thursday they were getting irate. Lol "come on guys wtf yall sat all fuggin bow season, let's drive dammit"

 

[Diablo54]

the lease is about 890 acres. With permission on 1000 or so more... I would agree with the driving concept except. This is southern Ohio. Every ridge gets driven durring shotgun. Not this property and that property. Every property. So. Its not going to run them out of the area. They have nowhere to go. What they have perfected is holding tight in cover and doubling back. 99 times out of 100 a buck will not move directly away from a pusher or break cover.

What it would help with is the nocturnal nature of the bucks post gun season. Pre gun they can be found durring the day. Post gun you better be in the thick of it.

the property is a. Mile long ridge and a big hollow of 45 year old mixed hardwoods. 250 acres of thick 15 year old pines, 200 acre 3 yo natural growth clear cut

Closest ag to the clear cut and pines is two miles away. The end of the mile long hardwoods ridge butts up to it. Surrounding properties for miles is ridges and hollows like wnf except with diverse habitat pines, clear cuts, hardwoods etc.

Nobody for miles really bowhunts. 6-7 of us bowhunt it. With half of them only the rut and 1 or 2 weekends.

But come shotgun. The surrounding woods come alive with civil war esq gunfire. I'm talking 80+ shots before 10 an within hearing distance.

I will never ever ever convince them to quit driving. However this year seven of us refused to drive the first 5 days.. Saying you guys can do what you want but were still hunting. Let me tell ya buddy. That sent some of those one week a year hunters through the roof. They wanted to drive and didn't have enough people. By Thursday they were getting irate. Lol "come on guys wtf yall sat all fuggin bow season, let's drive dammit"

Imagine if everyone around you did drives and your whole group didn't. That would change things alot. Imagine all the deer that you would have hiding on your property.


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[Kaiser878]

the lease is about 890 acres. With permission on 1000 or so more... I would agree with the driving concept except. This is southern Ohio. Every ridge gets driven durring shotgun. Not this property and that property. Every property. So. Its not going to run them out of the area. They have nowhere to go. What they have perfected is holding tight in cover and doubling back. 99 times out of 100 a buck will not move directly away from a pusher or break cover.

What it would help with is the nocturnal nature of the bucks post gun season. Pre fun they can be found durring the day. Post fun you better be in the thick of it.

the property is a. Mile long ridge and a big hollow of 45 year old mixed hardwoods. 250 acres of thick 15 year old pines, 200 acre 3 yo natural growth clear cut

Closest ag to the clear cut and pines is two miles away. The end of the mile long hardwoods ridge butts up to it. Surrounding properties for miles is ridges and hollows like wnf except with diverse habitat pines, clear cuts, hardwoods etc.

Nobody for miles really bowhunts. 6-7 of us bowhunt it. With half of them only the rut and 1 or 2 weekends.

But come shotgun. The surrounding woods come alive with civil war esq gunfire. I'm talking 80+ shots before 10 an within hearing distance.

I will never ever ever convince them to quit driving. However this year seven of us refused to drive the first 5 days.. Saying you guys can do what you want but were still hunting. Let me tell ya buddy. That sent some of those one week a year hunters through the roof. They wanted to drive and didn't have enough people. By Thursday they were getting irate. Lol "come on guys wtf yall sat all fuggin bow season, let's drive dammit"

The bolded phrase is the whole point. If everyone around you drives and you dont. WHala!!!! Deer central on your property! Like you said, its rough when you have other guys who want to strictly drive! with 890 acres! I would turn several of those thick areas into sanctuaries! THe hardest part is to keep everyone out of them! I am a firm believer in sanctuaries and not driving!

 

[Kaiser878]

Imagine if everyone around you did drives and your whole group didn't. That would change things alot. Imagine all the deer that you would have hiding on your property.


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This is 100% a fact that it works! Thats what we do!

 

[JD Boyd]

Cotty..

Yes..thats where i was going with this..The acorns kept the deer from traveling. It kept the deer living in areas of deep timber...Areas of deep timber dont get the pressure therefor dont get killed. I told all my buddies back in September that this will be our year for good hunting due to the great mast crop..and it was.

cmon JD..I thought you knew better...geeeesh:smiley_asswhip:

Jack..

However..In some cases..Property lines prevent hunters from adjusting..The bottom line is..Deer move less in years of large mast crops.. They can basically bed were they are feeding...Thus the low deer kill.

I'm sorry Dr.Deer Mountaineer, I don't know better... In my area of the state, all we usually hear about is " All the f'n deer are in the corn fields". Well this year all the corn was picked by the 1st of november. This year it put me in the woods way earlier than usual. Around here a 200 acre woods in one tract is a forrest. I got to get in the deep woods early because I had a feeling that's where the f'rs were at. Now if I can figure that out every other hunter can figure it out. I'm not no mountaineer but I have a little bit of deer knowledge. I'd rather hunt deep in a woods than sit on a field edge and watch them across the field every night...

 

["J"]

Shit man, I read it three times and thought the same thing each time! LOL!!! Sorry about that man. I thought it came from left field from you and that's why I was pissed. I read it like you were saying I had a truck full and was still hunting which is not true. My bad! I'm a retard!!! lol

Hell Jesse if it helps I agree with you.... Just sayin..... DANG.... lol