Garbage disposall

[Tree Monkey]

Ok Phil's do it your self repair on his wood burner got me thinking......

About a year ago I installed my a garbage disposall with a switch under the sink, I tapped into a junction box under the kitchen so I didn't have to tear into any walls and repair them. It worked great and had no problems, a month ago it started shocking my wife when she would run it and use a spoon or her hands to push food towards the drain. I told her serves ya right for getting your hand close to those teeth! But it has never shocked me because she made me do it and I didn't feel anything. She says it hits her pretty hard and numbs her arm lol....But It got to the point that she won't run it and I have to come in and turn it on and shut it off.....So my question is where do you think the problem lies, I checked the wiring and re capped them and taped everything off and it still is shocking her but not me. She did say it shocked her once when she flip the switch under the sink. I checked it too and re did the wiring. I can't figure it out and by all means I am not an electrical guy either....any advice?

 

[RedCloud]

Everything grounded ? Sounds like the disposal isn't grounded anymore for some reason. Open that little access panel on the bottom and check to see if the wire came loose from that green screw.

 

[hickslawns]

I am far from an electrician, but I agree it sounds like a ground issue. Is the outlet it is wired into grounded properly? Really should be a GFC outlet.

 

[Tree Monkey]

Yea I thought it wasn't grounded either......But I checked that and re wired it all just to make sure......I thought about that too phil...I would like to get this done myself but my back yard neighbor is an electrician but don't want to ask him for help unless I have to.

 

[Hoytmania]

What type of diposal do you have? Is it an Insinkerator. Those are about the best out there and have never heard of any issues, although anything mechanical can have issues. I would make sure that where you are hooking your ground to goes all the way back to your electrical panel and is grounded all the way through there. If the house is old you may have some new wiring that has a ground junctioned somewhere else to an older wire that has no ground. Therefore it would technically not be grounded. Let me know what you find out.

 

[Milo]

Check your positive wire in the panel and be sure the screws are tight. also check to be sure the ground wire lug is tight. I believe code specifies those to be on their own circuit also. a GFI is a good idea if it is wired properly.

 

[rgecko23]

If you have it plugged into an outlet with the switch turning it on then take a extension cord and plug the disposal into an outlet that you know is good. if its not shocking her then, than you know where the problem is.

If it is a three wires system plugged into a 2 wire you cannot do that, you need to run a new ground from your panel or a current ground then connect it.

Where do you have it grounded now?

Also, maybe check that junction box you are tapped into, wires may be touching in the panel..are they tapped up and the connections tight with lug.

Im coming up with random fixes here sorry. She may just have a "Shocking" personality.......

boooo.....I know, bad joke..

 

[Mike]

Go and get your electrician neighbor. Don't take a chance with electricity.

 

[hickslawns]

Go and get your electrician neighbor. Don't take a chance with electricity.

Great point! Might I add "Don't take a chance with electricity, and your wife standing in front of the sink while the water is running."

 

[RedCloud]

Go and get your electrician neighbor. Don't take a chance with electricity.

If I was closer I would do it .

Is there any copper waterlines close by ? Head down to the hardware/lumber store and pick up some extra wire (most sell single strand Green insulated copper wire by the foot ) long enough to go from the disposal to the copper water pipe. Disconnect the old ground wire from the screw and electrical tape it and push in back into the panel. Wrap the new single wire to the grounding screw on the disposal and run it to the copper water pipe and attach it using a clamp.

You can do the same thing with the switch.

 

[Jackalope]

If I was closer I would do it .

Is there any copper waterlines close by ? Head down to the hardware/lumber store and pick up some extra wire (most sell single strand Green insulated copper wire by the foot ) long enough to go from the disposal to the copper water pipe. Disconnect the old ground wire from the screw and electrical tape it and push in back into the panel. Wrap the new single wire to the grounding screw on the disposal and run it to the copper water pipe and attach it using a clamp.

You can do the same thing with the switch.

Not a good idea to ground to water pipes. If lightning were to strike the house and feed the ground circuit, it will electrify every faucet in the house. Heaven forbid someones in the shower.

 

[Buckmaster]

I would venture to say, its a bad ground.

When I bought my home it had portions rewired. We had electric water coming out of the faucet. It made your hands tingle. We traced all the ground wires and everything was ok. We changed the GFI outlet next to the sink and the electric water issue went away. We had a frustrating couple days trying to figure it out. The problem went away in 2001 and hasn't been back. We chalk it up to a bad GFI outlet. Good luck.

 

[RedCloud]

Does it shock her all the time even when the switch is turned off or only when the switch is on ?

Joe,

Your correct about not leaving it that way. I should have explained that part a little better.

What I should have said is to do that as a test to see what one is the problem. Hook one up at a time just as a way to diagnose if it's the switch or the disposal. Given this time of year you have no issue with lightning so would be fine to do as a quick test route. Once you find out what one has the bad ground you can run a new ground back to the panel for a more permanent fix .

 

[Tree Monkey]

Ok I traced the wiring all the way back to the breaker grounded all the way once again re connected the wires bought a new switch under the sink and replaced the male end that plugs into the out let. My question is I saw under the sink the dishwasher grounded to copper pipe that leads to the kitchen faucet could that have caused the short ? Or if the sump pump is shorting out could that jump the outlet and travel to the garbage disposall?


Thanks

 

[Jackalope]

Yes.. And yes..

The first thing i would do is verify the ground from the water pipe is actually the ground coming from the dishwasher. Is this by chance where you pipes enter the house from the supply?

Copper piping by code is required to be grounded within feet of it entering the home. This grounding is achieved through a grounding rod in the ground and a wire to the pipe. This provides electricity like a lightning strike an easy way to ground rather than through someone in the shower and through the drain to ground. Copper pipes in a house have mili volts of electricity traveling through them all the time to ground.. If interrupted say a PVC connector is used in a run electricity traveling the pipe will reach the plastic junction. Jump to the water inside the pipe and jump back to the pipe on the other side.. This will cause pitting and leaking in the run post the connector.. It will also charge minerals in the water and electrolysis will bond them to the pipe wall.. If Galvanized steel is introduced in a run it will actually create a reaction and produce electricity itself. Hence the need to ground.


Many electricians or days gone past would ground electrical appliances to these pipes if the electrical ground was unavailable. A ground is a ground right.. As we have seen it can produce problems and cause pipe degradation... This has since been established as a no no and is against code. Ground the appliances to the electrical grounding wire..

What i don't understand is why the dishwasher is grounded to the pipe. Typically a dishwasher is not a plug in appliance and is hard wired to the electrical circuit. 3 strand romex comes out of the wall and instead of being wired to an outlet that the dishwasher plugs into. It is wired directly into the back of the dishwasher. All 3 strands Black, White, and bare copper should be attached to the dishwasher on 3 clamp bolts colored Gold Silver and green... Or wire nuts used to connect the circuit line to the dishwashers electrical lines.

Here is a diagram of how it should be... Note the bare wire (Supply electrical ground) is connected to the Green insulated wire (dishwasher electrical ground) This is how it should be. There shouldn't be any wire from your dishwasher connected to the pipe....

So.. First what we need to do is verify where that wire connected to your pipe is going with 100% certainty. PS. Pics would make this easier.

 

[rgecko23]

Joe I completely agree....even though a ground is ground, that bare wire (ground) should be connected as shown.

I would just take that ground off the pipe all together and forget about using it as so.

 

[Tree Monkey]

.......
I am just assuming this was the dishwasher ground but its a black coated wire comming from behind the DW along the trash water line.

This could just be the ground you were talking about jack. The ground rod is in the back yard which is bout 6ft to the left of the kitchen sink.

 

[Jackalope]

.......
I am just assuming this was the dishwasher ground but its a black coated wire comming from behind the DW along the yeah water line.

WTF BATMAN!!!

That is as wrong as wrong can be.

Where does that wire go?

 

[Tree Monkey]

I am in th process of pulling the dishwasher

 

[Tree Monkey]

Scratch that idea......wont come out and I think the solder job was bad bc I can see a little leak under the dish washer