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The DNRs of plenty of states have mismanaged their deer herds.. Mi, Pa, WV, SC just to name a few.
Gun week total is down 8%
- Thread starter Ohiosam
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The DNRs of plenty of states have mismanaged their deer herds.. Mi, Pa, WV, SC just to name a few.
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It wasn't always that way... It started going downhill due to the mismanagement by their DNR.. By the time the people woke up and realized the impact it was to late.
Agreed. I'm not saying that the deer herd is or isn't being mismanaged right now... I don't think anyone on this site really knows for sure. I'm just not settling into the idea that our deer herd is being knowingly and/or purposely mismanaged by the ODOW without seeing some evidence of it. There is no exact science when it comes to wildlife population management... and, as far as I know, there are no certified wildlife biologists posting in this thread... so how does anyone here know for sure that what's currently being done is wrong?
I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I just don't understand how so many pissed off fingers get pointed at an organization that has done so much over the years to make Ohio a premier whitetail hunting destination.
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Agreed.. And on the other side of the coin one could say.. How could an organization that has made Ohio a premier whitetail hunting destination. Now not know they are messing it up. If it's by purpose they made it great, it's by purpose they have cut the herd numbers to crappy levels. They can't take credit for the good and say yeah me were meaning to do that because we're so smart.. Then turn around and say oops.. Who would have thought adding an extra gun season and doubling tags would have such a negative impact... Farm Bureau lobbyist must have lied to us... They are quickly making the city of Columbus, Cincinnati and Dayton the a premier whitetail hunting destination, not rural Ohio where 90% of everyone hunts.. There, we are seeing a noticeable decline in numbers.. I'm not talking about harvest numbers. We can have 25% less deer next year and they can add another bonus gun and somehow we'll end up with "Another record year" Which is what they have essentially done with the extra tags and bonus gun. They can't play smart with ohio being a top state, then later play dumb when we are see what's happening now.. It's either on accident or on purpose.
That is exactly what I am doing. Speculating. I won't argue this.
No worries here bud. It is perfectly fine to be argumentative. It is when these threads start calling names and getting stupid when they become useless. I do agree 100% the ODNR is a big reason why Ohio is one of the "premier whitetail hunting destinations". I just also feel there are certain areas where this destination could potentially take some steps backwards if it continues to take huge percentages of the population out in certain areas. I think the numbers DO need to be reduced in some places. Unfortunately, the areas with higher limits have sectors which the deer are being decimated and other sectors in these zones where the deer are tripping over each other. I think the bag limits need to be handled in smaller sections. It would be confusing, cost more money and take more manpower to make it happen, and might not be possible at all, but I think the zones are sometimes too generalized. The crazy part about this is Allen County was increased last year for limits. We have nearly a 50% reduction in harvest right now. What the heck is that about? Does this mean we are going to get another increase in limit next year? The system is simply flawed. I don't have a good answer, and I am not sure anyone else does either. I am simply stating my opinion that there need to be some changes made in how the deer are counted and how they determine bag limits.
huntn2
Senior Member
Ny is an example where it is broken up into real small regions. Number of permits are handled by region. Residents get doe tags much easier then NR. Some regions as a NR you may not get a doe tag in the lottery or at least not a second tag.
I too think narrowing the regions into smaller sub-sets would help. Like I said before, to me it isn't that thee ODNR is doing a terrible job as much as it is local cities act in ways that prohibit the ODNR from realizing their plan
I too think narrowing the regions into smaller sub-sets would help. Like I said before, to me it isn't that thee ODNR is doing a terrible job as much as it is local cities act in ways that prohibit the ODNR from realizing their plan
I feel that no matter what the deer levels do in the future, there will always be a huntable population of them......the good hunters will still get their deer no matter what. It's the rookies and weekend warriors that might have trouble filling their tags.
I'm not going to worry any more about what the DNR is going to do with the herd as I have no control over it and feel confident enough to be able to kill a deer under any circumstance.......I hope most of you guys feel the same way.
I'm not going to worry any more about what the DNR is going to do with the herd as I have no control over it and feel confident enough to be able to kill a deer under any circumstance.......I hope most of you guys feel the same way.
Milo
Tatonka guide.
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well i'm gonna disagree with you there...this whole thing is about scooping the cat poop out of their sand box...
what about antler restrictions , say nothing under 5 points is able to be harvested , imo that would sky rocket ohio to being one of the best big buck states
There's a lot of conflicting research out there regarding antler restrictions. Yea you'll have a lot of 1.5 yr olds make it another year, but the 1.5 yr olds with the most genetic potential are going to be the ones getting whacked down. When it comes to trophy bucks, I don't think Ohio needs to try anything different in that department.
formerbowhunter1023
Now Posts as Jesse..
And the same could be said for you JB. How do we know for sure what is being done is NOT wrong if we're not "certified" to make that assessment. Here's what I do know: I've spent 200+ hours afield for the past four seasons, all the while hunting with other people. Deer numbers are down and I don't need to be a biologist to tell you why. Similarly, you don't need a biologist to tell you governmental agencies tend to ignore their constituents and act on their own special interests when it benefits them.
You're right, I can't be positive either way. All I know is if we continue to slaughter deer year in and year out, rural hunters are going to suffer through countless deerless hours on stand and I'm not a fan of that outlook. If the DOW was smart enough to get us to the pinnacle we reached in the past, then they are smart enough to see where the new liberal limits and seasons are taking us. And when they ignore those facts and their constituents, that's when I start to suspect foul play.
I completely agree, man. I never said I was correct either... I actually pointed out that I'm not trying to say whether the herd is or isn't being mismanaged. I think my point is being missed a little bit here. In a few of the posts there were assumptions made that the ODOW is intentionally misleading us hunters... thus mismanaging the herd... as a result of them being in "kahoots" with the Farm Bureau and the insurance companies. I'm simply trying to state my opinion that it's unfair to make these types of assumptions without any proof behind them.
OK think of it this way. Think of all the different states you've been to where you've spoken with other hunters. What is the general consensus regarding public opinions on the DNRs? Pretty much everywhere I've gone, most hunters have a shitty attitude toward their state's DNR. But it's not just the DNR... it's pretty much all public agencies... people usually have a shitty view toward them, even though they don't know them at all on a personal level. Here's an example: I work for a county health department... I regulate private sewage treatment and water systems in the county. People don't know me personally, yet 90% of the time they automatically assume I'm an asshole and I'm out to make trouble for them. Even though I'm just like anyone else, with mouths to feed and problems of my own, I'm the asshole if I have to make someone obey the law... I don't make the law, yet I'm the dickhead for telling someone what they have to do. It's my job... it's what I do. I always approach people with a kind heart and good attitude, just trying to help them and their neighbors, yet before one word comes out of my mouth I'm treated like I'm an asshole. Do you think it's fair to make assumptions like this? I sure as hell don't.
Listen... you guys could be right that the herd is being mismanaged. I'm not seeing it, at least not yet, but I'm only one person and it seems that I'm outnumbered on this view... so chances are I'm wrong. All I've been trying to say is that, irregardless of whether the herd's being mismanaged, it's not fair to assume it's being done maliciously or due to corruption, without having anything to back it up. Sorry for making this thread take a strange turn guys.
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me personally think that the state is looking in the wrong places on deer numbers , i would almost garuntee when the are doing counts that they are only targeting certain areas , for instance around cities , how many times do you actually see any one from the odnr out looking at the herds , they arent , they are goind off of sightings in and around towns , road kill numbers , and harvest numbers , if they would get off theyre butts and do some real leg work they might see how they are affecting the herd in rural areas
formerbowhunter1023
Now Posts as Jesse..
I'm not saying your are wrong JB, not at all. This issue goes way deeper than any of us here on TOO have the ability to dig. I agree with a good bit of what you are saying. Maybe I'm just a skeptic, actually I am a skeptic. The older I get, the less I am willing to take things at face value. There is almost always and alterior motive, especially when it comes to local, state, and federal agencies. I don't trust anyone in a position of power, especially not the ones managing the most integral aspect of my passion.
I also believe that we as hunters do not have to kill our limit year in and year. In the past, I made it clear that I am a huge proponent of personal accountability and this no different. If things are bad in your area, you do not have to change the DOW to make changes that benefit your local herd. Talk to the locals; form a co-op; or start a "whitetail commission" of your own. We do not have the same "brown and down" mentality as some of our neighboring states. But there are still thousands of hunters across the state that will kill just to kill and they'll do so up and to the point the DOW let's them. So not all the blame needs to be placed on the DOW. But as we all know, shit runs down hill and in this case, there's a pile of it right at the top IMO...
I also believe that we as hunters do not have to kill our limit year in and year. In the past, I made it clear that I am a huge proponent of personal accountability and this no different. If things are bad in your area, you do not have to change the DOW to make changes that benefit your local herd. Talk to the locals; form a co-op; or start a "whitetail commission" of your own. We do not have the same "brown and down" mentality as some of our neighboring states. But there are still thousands of hunters across the state that will kill just to kill and they'll do so up and to the point the DOW let's them. So not all the blame needs to be placed on the DOW. But as we all know, shit runs down hill and in this case, there's a pile of it right at the top IMO...
This is the ultimate answer. You have to do what is best for the herd on the property you hunt. The state manages by zones but you can manage your little properties. If you kill one less doe most likely you will have at least that doe and it's fawn next year on that property. Conversely if you happen to have a property where does are a problem the liberal bag limits give you the option to correct that. I realize this applies more to private land then public but it is similar to preaching about not shooting little bucks. It doesn't take many hunters passing on does before it begins to help in an area.
I understand your point of view... unfortunately there are too many examples out there that make people feel this way. For the honest people in a "position of power," it really sucks... that's the biggest thing I struggle with at my job.
I couldn't agree more about hunters regulating themselves. Just because you're allowed to shoot a certain number of deer doesn't mean you have to shoot that many.
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That would sure be easy if every property across Ohio was in a QDMA cooperative.. Alas it isn't. And the people that have gotten together for the past 30 years for "holy week" will still kill almost every animal they get a chance to... There are far far more of them that could give two shits, than there are of us who have quit killing does.. A simple "self regulate" is not the answer.. The DNR was created to regulate the game after hunters decimated the populations.. We have never been good at self regulation.. If we were capable of "self regulating" we would have never needed a dnr, or nfws.. It is NOT the hunters role to "preserve" the game.. It is our role to kill them.. It is the DNR responsibility to ensure our killing doesn't get out of hand. This is why we have bag limits.. It is their job to set said limits so we as killers don't over hunt the deer population to a point where it suffers heavy losses.. It is of my opinion they are failing at their job by allowing us to be too good at ours.