Interesting logic

[bowhunter1023]

So this is pretty interesting. What really IS the metric for ranking where we're at with deer hunting quality? Is it the number of 170+ inch book entries, or is it the number of 140+ inch book entries? If it's 170+, then why? And if that relative number is declining, say compared to 10-20 years ago, then what is causing the decline? Is it baiting, crossbows, non-resident hunters, cost of tags, or a deer population that's too high, or a combination of these? After all that, is it simply a debate and criticism that's based on one hunting cohort's perspective (those who consider "quality" as a reflection of the number of Booner entries)? What if another cohort's perspective is that Ohio is current at its peak for deer hunting quality? Who do we cater to?

All valid questions worth consideration, which is why I say it's a "complex onion". There really is no right answer to who we cater to. I tend to favor residents in my line of reasoning, which directly conflicts with several guys on here who I respect. My opinion, admittedly, is ripe with bias because it's based on my "cohort's perspective". That said, I do believe it's a whole host of factors and there's no silver bullet, but I love this particular debate because it always draws out some great perspectives. And we typically keep it civil

I believe they just raised NR fees significantly, so wasn't that done to help limit NR hunters?

I'm not sure if they ever justified the increase per se, but there had to be an awareness (and presumably an understanding) that it would deter some folks. Mathematically, they could stand to lose a certain percentage of hunters to reduce competition without sacrificing revenue. It'll be interesting to see if that's the case or not.

 

[Jackalope]

Ohio is a great state with lots of trophy deer. And lots of trophy deer are killed.

With that said.

Ohio is also a state with a shitload of hunters sitting in every 1 acre brush pile they can find to hunt. Permission on private land is extremely hard to come by unless it's family, and if you do find it, you can guarantee you're not alone.

There is also far too little public land, 95.8% of ohio is private. The public land that is available does not hold the quality of deer that Whitetail Magazine plasters on the cover.

I would venture to say that a very large number of Ohio trophy deer that get killed comes from smaller urban or semi-urban properties. These are not properties that out of state Bob is going to be able to hunt. These are properties that Aunt sally owns and lets her nephew hunt, and he gets lucky and kills a big one. Or 3 acre properties that Bill owns and has a feeder 100 yards behind his daughters playhouse. Most of Ohio falls in this category due to population density, especially above 71.

Compare this to other states on the list like wisconsin with 17% public land and 5x fewer people than Ohio. Kentucky with 11% public land and 3x fewer people. Kansas is only 2% public land, but they have a massive private to public walk-in access program where landowners give open walk-in public access to 1.5 million acres throughout the state.

I say all of that to say. Ohio has some great deer, this is mainly due to their massive urban and semi-urban footprint. Unfortunately for the destination hunter Ohio has a massive access problem. While a lot of fantastic deer are killed, there are also a lot of hunters who are hunting small parcels surrounded by parcels that dont allow hunting, this IMO makes the numbers look skewed, especially to an out of state guy who assumes Ohio is all rural fields like out west. Unless you have deep pockets to lease, or a family connections with property in Ohio, it is not the destination state to hunt for a trophy Whitetail, regardless of what the trophy Whitetail potential numbers say. Having potential is great, having deer is great, none of that matters if a guy can't actually hunt them and without available access, it's largely worthless to a destination hunter. This problem only gets worse as leasing gets worse in the buckeye state, further pushing the resident guys to hunt ever smaller and crowded parcels.

 

[cspot]

All valid questions worth consideration, which is why I say it's a "complex onion". There really is no right answer to who we cater to. I tend to favor residents in my line of reasoning, which directly conflicts with several guys on here who I respect. My opinion, admittedly, is ripe with bias because it's based on my "cohort's perspective". That said, I do believe it's a whole host of factors and there's no silver bullet, but I love this particular debate because it always draws out some great perspectives. And we typically keep it civil



I'm not sure if they ever justified the increase per se, but there had to be an awareness (and presumably an understanding) that it would deter some folks. Mathematically, they could stand to lose a certain percentage of hunters to reduce competition without sacrificing revenue. It'll be interesting to see if that's the case or not.

Not sure if that really works all that well. Typically spending another couple of hundred bucks for someone who is paying for a lease, bait, food plots etc is not likely to deter them from hunting out of state. The people it will deter is likely some residents who had to move out of state for work and come back once or twice a year to hunt with family.

I will also add from hunting in multiple states. Everyone tends to see their view from their small slice that they hunt. The factors affecting those properties can vary widely which like you said makes them "ripe with bias". For example if you own property surrounded by leased ground by NR.

 

[cspot]

Ohio is a great state with lots of trophy deer. And lots of trophy deer are killed.

With that said.

Ohio is also a state with a shitload of hunters sitting in every 1 acre brush pile they can find to hunt. Permission on private land is extremely had to come by unless it's family, and if you do find it, you can guarantee you're not alone.

There is also far too little public land, 95.8% of ohio is private. The public land that is available does not hold the quality of deer that Whitetail Magazine plasters on the cover.

I would venture to say that a very large number of Ohio trophy deer that get killed comes from smaller urban or semi-urban properties. These are not properties that out of state Bob is going to be able to hunt. These are properties that Aunt sally owns and lets her nephew hunt, and he gets lucky and kills a big one. Or 3 acre properties where the resident bill owns and has a feeder 100 yards behind his daughters playhouse. Most of Ohio falls in this category due to population density, especially above 71.

Compare this to other states states on the list like wisconsin with 17% public land and 5x fewer people than Ohio. Kentucky with 11% public land and 3x fewer people. Kansas is only 2% public land, but they have a massive private to public walk-in access areas where landowners give open walk-in public access to 1.5 million acres throughout the state.

I say all of that to say. Ohio has some great deer, this is mainly due to their massive urban and semi-urban footprint. Unfortunately for the destination hunter Ohio has a massive access problem. While a lot of fantastic deer are killed, there are also a lot of hunters, hunting small parcels, making the numbers look skewed. Unless you have deep pockets to lease or family connections in Ohio, it is not the destination state to hunt for a trophy Whitetail regardless of trophy Whitetail potential numbers.

Yep. Very well said.