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Its been a long night

Dang, that shot looked good... As said before, what else could have gone wrong other than the head? Milo's explanation seems to makes sense to me.

Too bad man, good thing you got back at it and whacked a doe!
 
Yea, those are very tough to find if they go any distance at all. I'm saying that deer is dead, but he was in a place you couldn't find him.
 
Still heart breaking. Thanks for sharing with us Tom. I know a lot of guys that might not post anything until they know if they recovered the deer or not. Stuff happens. When it is shared, it makes us think. We can all learn from it at this point as long as everyone stays civil. This is why TOO is head and shoulders above any other hunting forum I have seen.

Only other question: Were you to the left or right of cameraman? If to the right, the only other possibility I could see is if it slid along the outside of the ribcage and stopped in the flank or shoulder or brisket something. Upon impact, they don't always continue on a straight line. This seems to be especially true if they load up or turn to jump. I have had a couple broken arrows. Last year one broke in 3 pieces as the doe twisted and jumped while arrow was inside her.
 
I was to the left of the camera man. When the buck stopped while watching the footage the arrow was sticking out from the back of the ribs at about a 45 degree angle. If the arrow went in along side the ribs the arrow would have to be tight to the body.
 
This is only from seeing the picture you posted, but to me, you are too far forward. Maybe the video shows something different. I know for a fact you can shoot a deer in the "x", and not recover it, especially if they quartered even slightly. I killed a doe in 95 that I didn't think I'd recover. I made an absolute "perfect" shot, watched the arrow blow through her. She ran 100 yards to another woodlot, turned and looked back for several minutes and then walked into the woods. I knew where I hit her and knew she should have dropped dead within seconds. I found my arrow, very little blood and none on the ground. I left. Came back the next morning with my beagle on a leash (it was illegal to do back then). We worked the downwind side of the woods and he eventually led me to the deer. It was still alive! I had shot her at 5 pm, and found her at 11 am the next day. She was too weak to get up, and I finished the job with a knife...don't want to do that again! When I field dressed her, I looked at the lungs closely. This is the part NO ONE believes....the Thunderhead had gone through the top of both!!! I don't mean it knicked 'em, it went through them! The top/front portion of the lungs apparently does not shut a deer down immediately.

Another expample... Sean, (BEC) shot a dandy while hunting with me a couple of years ago. He shot the deer at 26 steps, saw where he hit, watched the deer for some time afterwards and swore it was a perfect shot. Tight behind the shoulder, half-way up. He immediately told me the deer didn't act like he was gonna die regardless of where the arrow was sticking out...and stuck in the offside shoulder. He was right! We found the arrow and trailed the buck for a few hours. He never bedded. We got pics of him on a BuckEye Cam two days later chasing a doe. A day after that, I got a night time pic of him and when blown up, the arrow hole is visible...and it is right where I shot the doe in 95!

These two cases are why I am a big fan of hitting them 5 inches or so behind the leg...lungs are bigger there, and you're away from the shoulder. Also, the pocket of skin around the shoulder can hold a LOT of blood and make tracking very difficult even on short trails.
 
I know it's easy to gang up on the broadhead, and I'm not saying that it WASN'T the broadhead's fault, but I've seen similar outcomes from a fixed-blade broadhead too. Just last year, I helped Carpn Jake look for a doe that he absolutely SMOKED, yet there was zero bloodtrail. I believe he was shooting a Steel Force Phathead, which is a proven fixed-blade head. If the shot was not captured on video, we all would have really been scratching our heads. The deer was slightly quartered away, and he zipped one through her right where he should. The exit wound clogged IMMEDIATELY once the arrow passed through. We ended up finding her, but only after doing a grid search.

Like I said, I'm not defending the broadhead in question here... I totally agree with what Milo and many others have said. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. Even with a different broadhead, you can still lose deer just like this one.
 
Monster Raxx said:
Milo I really appreciate your input on this, I was hoping you would let me know what you were thinking.

Jesse I am not taking any of this as anyone ganging up on me. I put this post up and pic knowing I might get a hard time from some. But if anyone can learn from this I think it is more important. Milo we never found the arrow, when we were watching the footage you could see the arrow was still lodged in him. I only got about 12" of penetration which I just could not believe. My fear with using mechanicals for years was hearing horror stories like Cotty's about the head not opening up and not getting a pass through. Looks like I am going to have to shoot some fixed blades to see what shoots best with my set up. I will be back in a stand in 10 days so I need to get this taken care of right away.
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Tom, thanks for having the courage to post the pics and everything. we are not really here to ridicule anyone but these discussions can be both beneficial to everyone as well as a detriment. I was going to do an analysis to post up on why i do not shoot rage heads..the reason i did not is because the last thing i want someone to do is question their setup just before getting into the hunting season. to me, that would be a disservice to people and hunters in general. I was going to wait till after the season so people had time to mull over the information and digest it. While I will state that a rage, when put in the right spots, is quite effective. You just need to know the limitations. from what you said about the angle, penetration and lack of blood it , to me, just confirms my thoughts. it sounds like the head folded over and just pushed guts until it stopped. probably not doing as much damage as you thought. Sometimes mistakes are necessary, unfortunate at times but necessary. I applaud you for putting this up and allowing yourself to be picked apart a little. I surely hope you get some positives out of this and can be a better bowhunter. I am shooting new heads this year too and I know some people will ask me WTF i'm doing shooting 30 dollar broadheads but threads like this make me ask those people " is it worth it now?"...

there are even fixed heads I have concerns with due to their high angled blades so fixed blades are not really a cure all in all cases.
 
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Just found this thread for the first time. Something no one wants to deal with, but a discussion that wouldn't take place civilly anywhere else. And educational to boot - there's a lot of killin wisdom in this thread.
 
Here are a few pics of the deer Sean shot "perfectly" but did not kill...

One is him in front of my stand early the morning Sean shot him. One is him after being shot and the entrance is visible when blown up. One is him chasing a doe after being shot.

It makes you think twice about trying to tuck it right next to the shoulder, especially if they are angled away at all.
 

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For me that's a tuff shot to take. It looks to me like the angle is behind the shoulder, but it would exit in the front of the chest.
 
I Too would like to see the video. It looks to me (by looking at the red mark) it's too far forwards. I stay away from the shoulder crease no matter what angle and go for the lungs. If they can't breathe, they can't run!
 
patmc81 said:
For me that's a tuff shot to take. It looks to me like the angle is behind the shoulder, but it would exit in the front of the chest.
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I have said this earlier but there is a lot to read through so I will write it again. The picture is deceiving it looks like the arrow is going behind the shoulder, the camera man is to my right and the nocturnal turned off when the broadhead hit the buck. I dont have a still from the video where you can see the arrow sticking out of the buck yet, the arrow went in the back of the ribs angleing towards the opposite leg.
 
Its just a unfortunate part of bow hunting. We do everything we can to avoid these types of things, but they happen. Pretty much sums up life and its a drag
 
Huckleberry Finn said:
Just found this thread for the first time. Something no one wants to deal with, but a discussion that wouldn't take place civilly anywhere else. And educational to boot - there's a lot of killin wisdom in this thread.
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You got that right Huck! These boys have killed more deer than the blue tongue! Take Hoot, Cob, Sam, CJD, Ric and Ron, my gosh! Got to be 150+ years of hunting wisdom there. Cob probably has at least 50yrs himself!
 
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Tom, thanks for putting it all out there for us. This has been a great thread for all of us to discuss, read and learn. I think Milos account carries alot of merit. Your shot looks great but apparently something prohibited blood to spill adequately enough. Like JD said, don't let it get you down and forget it and move on. Goodluck on your next hunt.
 
Monster Raxx said:
I have said this earlier but there is a lot to read through so I will write it again. The picture is deceiving it looks like the arrow is going behind the shoulder, the camera man is to my right and the nocturnal turned off when the broadhead hit the buck. I dont have a still from the video where you can see the arrow sticking out of the buck yet, the arrow went in the back of the ribs angleing towards the opposite leg.
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I see, I didn't read that. Its always sucks when something like this happens.
 
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