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License increase

Jackalope

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Great stuff joe.

I personally don’t think you can use harvest data to prove this point in reduced/loss revenue. One could simply use that same data to argue that the check system isn’t efficient because that 30% is now not checking deer in- possible stretch but you get my point.

As for the 15 dollar doe tag, I believe the ODNR would argue that was sold like an impulse purchase at a store. I would imagine that many hunters who would only buy one tag, now bought 1 tag and the 15 dollar tag so they could harvest another deer(spin this way it could be used to show increased revenue). Again - I don’t think you can directly correlate that loss against the standard cost - assuming the majority of those tags were sold alongside a 24 dollar tag. I do think you could use that number for a loss but only against the number of 15 dollar tags sold without the accompaniment of a standard 24 tag, to accurately do this one would need to have an idea of how many of those hunters buying the 15 dollar tag only wouldn’t have bought that tag if it was 24 - again could be spun to show positive revenue increase. Basically arguing “we can’t sell a second doe tag at 24 but we can at 15, hence we are getting money we wouldn’t get regardless”.

I do believe you can use the tags sold number to estimate reduced revenue stream. The issue I have with this, not enough data.

Initially that 500K loss seems outrageous but do we know what the standard deviation is in tags sales say over a 10 year period?20 year period? How about across multiple states? When looking at that large of a number of tags sold, I could easily see how you would have a 200-600k swing, just based on weather alone- forecast says rain all week of gun, less tags sold.

We know that hunter numbers are declining as well. Since early 2000s there was a lot of guys who were W2 Vets still hunting, who now unfortunately are not - for example.

I am not pro one side or another. I think you bring up fantastic points. I just to try to evaluate from multiple points of view. Hopefully adding some value to this thread.

To me it seems like:

Tag sales are decreasing - due to less hunters, possibly due to less deer and frustrated hunters, etc.

inflation over 15 years justifies small increase

Slight increase will more then cover inflation and reduced tag sales. Which if funds are used correctly will results in a better product for the hunters and fisherman of Ohio( that’s another debate).

Great discussion. Happy Sunday all!

AT

We'll never be able to account for every penny and correlate it down to every intent. Whatever that loss number may be, theres no denying that if a DNR reduces the deer population 30%+ they're going to lose a boatload of revenue in tag and license sales.
 
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bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
Staff member
48,879
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Appalachia
This where I disagree and I know I basically stand alone with my thought and opinion, I would rather increase prices even more to drive out the non die hards, land is already scarce enough, I really don't see the need to recruit anymore more hunters since there is a blind in every single brush line in my part of Ohio and can't do a decent rabbit hunt until February. IMO the non die hard hunters truly don't care about the conversation or tradition of the sport like we do, they just like trying to get a deer. where as its an actual lifestyle for us.

To draw an analogy you can relate to, I liken the trend of hunter recruitment to teaching to the test. It's a means to an end, but is it really what's best for those that truly get it?

On one hand, I would like to see prices for non-residents become cost-prohibitive for about 50% of the people currently hunting in Ohio. I'd also like to see residents pay twice as much. In an ideal world, this would help alleviate the "stand in every tree and blind in every corner" problem we have right now. And in a utopian world, our DNR/DOW would use the increased revenue (we're assuming revenue still increases despite the drop in hunter participation) to purchase more land, improve what we have, and fund conservation initiatives to include increased law enforcement.

But... and in honor of the late COB, there's always a but. Hunters are under attack and we need all hands on deck. Unfortunately, we need some of the nonsense like "For Love or Likes" to "normalize" hunting. We need a stand in every tree and a blind in every corner to increase the number of people advocating for, and funding, hunting. It's truly a double edged sword.

That said, I'll hunt even when/if some arbitrary man-made law says I can't, so my survival instinct says to hell with recruitment, raise the prices and ween out the wannabes. If you want to hunt bad enough, you'll find the money.
 

Fletch

Senior Member
Supporting Member
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118
Well , "The Good Old Day's" are gone and with that a lot of hunters have lost interest in hunting... Whether or not you like it, hunters are a dying breed... And I really don't think "cost" has anything to do with it as Sgt. Fury said. Sooner or later those of us that hunt will grow tired of all the bullshit that one has to go through to enjoy our sport... In the end when it becomes a "Royal Pain in The Ass" one has to say: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH... As for today's hunters carrying the torch forward??? Sorry its not going to happen... Most of today's hunter's want everything given to them on a silver platter... What's going to happen when CWD becomes a really big deal in a lot of state's and state's ban baiting??? What I can't go out and dump a bag of corn and hunt??? Hunt the old fashioned way and put some effort into it scouting and learning the deers pattern's... F THAT... All of a sudden their no longer pro-staffers and will quit due to the fact that they have to put some effort into it... Take note of some of the vehicles being driven by hunters, most cost way more than what I paid for my first house... So you really think an extra hundred or two will deter thaem from buying a license... Nope... Don't think so...
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
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Well , "The Good Old Day's" are gone and with that a lot of hunters have lost interest in hunting... Whether or not you like it, hunters are a dying breed... And I really don't think "cost" has anything to do with it as Sgt. Fury said. Sooner or later those of us that hunt will grow tired of all the bullshit that one has to go through to enjoy our sport... In the end when it becomes a "Royal Pain in The Ass" one has to say: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH... As for today's hunters carrying the torch forward??? Sorry its not going to happen... Most of today's hunter's want everything given to them on a silver platter... What's going to happen when CWD becomes a really big deal in a lot of state's and state's ban baiting??? What I can't go out and dump a bag of corn and hunt??? Hunt the old fashioned way and put some effort into it scouting and learning the deers pattern's... F THAT... All of a sudden their no longer pro-staffers and will quit due to the fact that they have to put some effort into it... Take note of some of the vehicles being driven by hunters, most cost way more than what I paid for my first house... So you really think an extra hundred or two will deter thaem from buying a license... Nope... Don't think so...

To expand on your truck analogy. The trucks today have a lot more features than they did back when you bought your first house. Take a 2019 model Chevy and strip every feature from it that adds value, basically take it back to a 1973 C10 with crank windows and rubber floors. Then raise the price of it more than it's cost today and see how many hunters still buy that truck. The same effect is had when you decimate a deer population and then want to charge more to hunt it.
 

"J"

Git Off My Lawn
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North Carolina
To expand on your truck analogy. The trucks today have a lot more features than they did back when you bought your first house. Take a 2019 model Chevy and strip every feature from it that adds value, basically take it back to a 1973 C10 with crank windows and rubber floors. Then raise the price of it more than it's cost today and see how many hunters still buy that truck. The same effect is had when you decimate a deer population and then want to charge more to hunt it.
Can you even buy a crank windowed truck anymore?
 

Sgt Fury

Sgt. Spellchecker
Can you even buy a crank windowed truck anymore?
6C608947-E827-426D-A140-B1C47344F606.jpeg
 

Fletch

Senior Member
Supporting Member
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Decimate a deer herd??? No need to tell me about that... Over the years of "MIS-MANAGEMENT" in Northern New Jersey where I live the deer herd has been decimated... In the 80's I used to go out and some days pass on as many as 10 bucks... Today I could hunt for a straight month those same woods and be lucky to see 5 deer total... Therefore I haven't deer hunted in Jersey in over 10 years... So they have lost my money... Ill take my money and go out of state... So Ill drop a small fortune on my deer hunting if I have great expectations of seeing deer... Lack of deer will keep me out of the game... Now where can I get a truck with crank windows???
 

Fletch

Senior Member
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Now there's something I wish they would bring back.. High/Low beam switch on the floor...
 
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giles

Cull buck specialist
Supporting Member
I usually buy a turkey tag just in case I decide to go, probably won’t be doing that this year.

You want to hunt public land, pay for a stamp on top of your license. There’s your money and you get to see it directly get used. Don’t make everyone pay for it. I know people that haven’t ever hunted public land, but now they have to pay more for those that do? I don’t like that idea. Welfare comes to mind, I work my ass off so you don’t have to.

I’d pay $50-100 for the stamp, double it for NR’s and call it a day.
 

Chass

Active Member
2,172
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The Hills
I usually buy a turkey tag just in case I decide to go, probably won’t be doing that this year.

You want to hunt public land, pay for a stamp on top of your license. There’s your money and you get to see it directly get used. Don’t make everyone pay for it. I know people that haven’t ever hunted public land, but now they have to pay more for those that do? I don’t like that idea. Welfare comes to mind, I work my ass off so you don’t have to.

I’d pay $50-100 for the stamp, double it for NR’s and call it a day.
I know somewhere you can use that turk tag. Maybe even snag some shrooms and catch some fish as well.
 
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Fletch

Senior Member
Supporting Member
6,078
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I usually buy a turkey tag just in case I decide to go, probably won’t be doing that this year.

You want to hunt public land, pay for a stamp on top of your license. There’s your money and you get to see it directly get used. Don’t make everyone pay for it. I know people that haven’t ever hunted public land, but now they have to pay more for those that do? I don’t like that idea. Welfare comes to mind, I work my ass off so you don’t have to.

I’d pay $50-100 for the stamp, double it for NR’s and call it a day.

I'd be all for making it triple for non-resident's... Many way's to make money for the state... Perhap's they should charge $500.00 to keep a "dead head" you find in the wood's... After all it is a valuable resource to the state... :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: