Nocturnal: Over used word or fact?!?!?!

[finelyshedded]

Nocturnal: fact or fiction.....What say thee???


I've said this about as many times about certain mature deer over the years as anybody but I have often wondered if it's just assumed TOO many times that a certain mature buck just moves mostly at night. Just because we get pics of certain bucks on our camera under darkness doesn't always mean he's moving around at night is what I'm getting at. Sure these monarchs got to their age by using their smarts after past experiences and near misses with hunters,animal predators and vehicle collisions, not to mention things like disease which they even have less control over but is the nocturnal lifestyle really much of a reason why they live longer? The question is if we catch a mature buck on camera between 10pm to 4 am, where was he during the hours outside of that time frame. We hunters are very secretive about what we capture on our cameras when talking to other hunters who hunt close to our own stomping grounds. Who's to say they aren't getting the daylight pics while all along all we've gotten were the nighttime pics!?!

A few years ago I got 4 different mature bucks hitting the same active scrape between the hours of 11pm to 4 am around the 3rd week in October. One of them a 13 pointer was killed a few days later by a bowhunter 3/4 mile away one evening. Another was killed by a car a mile away but don't know if it was day or night but the point I'm trying to make is maybe these "nocturnal" deer are not as nocturnal as we think! Has anybody else noticed how many huge mature deer die at the hands of hunter early these days?!? I bet nearly all were killed on top of or near their food source just as they will during the late season as well. When the does start coming in soon these mature deer will start letting the "other" head do their thinking making them vulnerable as well.

I believe certain deers personalities such as shyness,boldness or being more horny comes into play while the phases of the rut play out. Some bucks seem to have a bully type personality while others freak out at the sight of their own shadow! Ron and I knew of one 200" deer we both tried hunting after Ron and another hunter found his sheds one winter and he was like a ghost! As far as we know he never got his pic taken or another shed found and was only seen in the flesh by one other person but like I said earlier, we as hunters like to keep things quiet so we don't have others slipping in on us. We still haven't heard whatever happened to that secretive mature deer! As a side note, we believe his survival was all he cared or he was just ultra shy and one that just kept to himself. On the flip side on the exact same ridge we both had encounters with another buck 2 years in a row that was about 170 typical one year and the next year was 195 non typical. This deer was asking to get killed and eventually did as everybody and their brother seen him crossing roads and while hunting. The day he was killed he was walking in between two standers of a huge group heading into this area getting ready to be pushed! The drive hadn't even started yet! Lol

I guess it's a great example of how two mature deer were polar opposites of each other. Again, the question is raised, was the secretive buck mostly nocturnal or was he just extremely shy or an oddball? Was the other one not a night owl and just flamboyant as hell?

I believe deer or a lot like us humans personality wise. The deer that that are shy and timid just tend to live longer and most mature bucks just appear to be nocturnal.

 

[Hortontoter]

In most cases deer tend to move less during daylight hours than they do during darkness. The rut and late winter are the two biggest contradictions to this IMO. I believe each deer has its own personality or lifestyle. My thinking is that very few, if any, deer lay in the same bed from daylight to dark. I think all deer move to some extent every single day, unless super severe weather is involved. Just because a buck only trips our cameras during darkness doesn't mean he wasn't on another fellas camera 1/2 mile away in daylight.

We all have ideas that we are taught from reading what the "experts" say. I think many times we give these creatures more credit than they are due. An example of mine is when I read someone posting about when a deer knows he is being hunted. I personally don't believe a deer ever knows he is being hunted. He may notice more intrusions by us in his area, but to give him credit for knowing we are trying to put an arrow in his chest is farfetched in my mind.

 

[bowhunter1023]

I do believe that some bucks do the majority if their moving under the covering of darkness. But to assume they never move during the day is bad assumption IMO. Mature bucks know their core areas better than we ever hope to know it and when he choses to lay down for the day, he knows where he's safe and where he can do when he's bumped. If and when they move during the day, you can bet they are not going for a leisurely stroll a mile down the road. He's picked a spot where he can stretch his legs, grab a bite, maybe get some water, but never leave the security of the area he picked for his bedroom that day. When I think back on all the mature bucks I've bumped over the years, none of them needed more than 3 or 4 bounds to get out of harms way. Mature bucks just know how to survive, that's why they reached maturity!

As for bucks having individual personalities, I have no doubt about that. Over a decade of running cameras has shown me that. That's why when you find a buck that has a laissez faire attitude, it's easy to get excited about killing him!

 

[Mike]

Good stuff.

 

[Bigslam51]

The buck I killed this year appeared on the other guys camera a half mile away on the neighboring farm, all at dark and around 1am. While I was getting pictures of him at 6:30am and just before dark the week before season. He didn't think he was a killable deer, a half mile away he was killable TOO me!

 

[Boarhead]

Seems they all have different personalities,alot of their movement has to do with how much pressure they experience over their lifetime and the older they get they learn alot from this and move accordingly.
The ones that are seen alot during the daylight hours seem to be very killable and usually get knocked off by someone not necessarily us.
I have also noticed over the years that alot of the older bucks 5+ at least where i hunt seem to become more homebodies thus giving an edge to the hunter that they will have an encounter with them while hunting.It is up to us to finish the job.lol
As for some bucks i believe their are a few as Ric was saying that just seem to live to survive and do very little of the breeding.

 

[Big_Holla]

Great thread!! If you think about it a trail camera takes a mere snippit of what area a buck could cover in a 24 hour period. Just because you only get night time pics of him doesn't mean he's nocturnal, it just means he passed through that particular spot when it was dark. Keep moving the camera in the direction he is coming from in the evenings or going towards in the day time and soon he just may start 'appearing' in the daytime. So given that perhaps his daylight movement is limited to a 200 yard diameter area from his bedding, that means you have to get pretty close to where he is 'hanging out' before you find that out for sure. On the flip side, perhaps he is traveling a long ways from a neighboring property before he gets onto yours. I agree a lot of it depends on the personality of the deer but IMO more of it depends on where he is bedding frequently and how much pressure he sees.

 

[Bigcountry40]

I always told (my uncle and his buddies who are now in their 50's) the way to hunt a nocturnal deer mature back was to slip in very close to their bedding area (pre staging area) in the afternoon, and that majority of buck (nocturnal as well) will get up right around dusk, they may not go far and lay back down, but they do move in the their pre-staging area during light. I have never had that great of success with it, nor do I have that great of bucks on the land I had access to hunt. But I feel like this makes sense, but spooking/pushing the mature deer to get into this area is the biggest issue.

 

[MoonLab]

I've not see one buck on my property, but have few of buck on trail cam that'd show up late at night or early in morning like 1 hour before sunrise. Maybe I need to get to the stand 2-3 hours before sunrise so I wouldn't bump into them? :smiley_chinrub: The only thing I see during the day just doe. Once heard buck snorted wheezed....probably picked up my scent from somewhere but I didn't have smoker at that time from then. That one picture on here, I have that buck chasing that doe, at night! lol Grrrr. Another thing that during the rut, that one day at the farm hunting, from 6am to 10 am, decided to call it a day, from being cold/tired, well the next day I checked the trail cam that decent 8 pointer showed up that day at 11:30 right after I left......sumbitch. :smiley_crocodile:

 

[Dannmann801]

Ric knows deerz.
Listen up.

 

[cotty16]

My one camera that is by a core bedding area is the one that gets the most daylight pics. The ones on travel routes or feeding areas... they get the night time pics.

 

[PA Bandit]

Be this as my own opinion so those who think otherwise please do not take offense but I don't necessarily buy the whole "mature", "wise" deer and relate it to nocturnal movements. My personal relation to this is it is more an influence of AGE which just coincidentally typically correlates to larger deer. Think of it in this sense the aging process of deer is lets say 10-15 yrs. comparatively speaking to the aging process of humans which through google tells me is around 82 years. Equating the two one could assimilate that in general as organisms age they tend to become "lazy" (for lack of a better term) and as that age increases it tends to revert to a drive only to move for the basic needs. So in short as I could go in a pretty length discussion I personally feel that they are not moving later in the evening because they are so much "wiser" but because they are lazier then those doe and young bucks that you see early. Deer are proven to be more nocturnal animals which carries over into the morning and evenings, older deer just reduce the span of time they are on their feet because they are old and conserving their energy. This also is why through the aging process you will see older bucks bedding closer and closer to food sources as it reduces energy to move to and from.

Now I do think that pressure has some influence and I have always said it but I will be one to stand and say that a (2) year old buck that has been hunted and shot at is "wiser" than a 5 year old buck that lives in the suburbs of America and has never received any sort of reason to fear. Thus why I saw a 160" 14 point (the irony of this is why I am posting) standing on the bridge that connects my plant at 11:00 AM this morning that was not scared one bit but when I go home to PA you see a two year old (8) point and he is skittish of every bird that chirps and car that goes by a mile away.

 

[bowhunter1023]

I'd agree with what you were saying if we were talking about 7-8 year old deer. For the most part, none of us are hunting deer that old. Instead, mature deer are 4-5 years old. A deer that is 4 or 5 is in his prime. He's not moving less because he's lazy. I think using Google to "assimilate" human aging to that of whitetails is misleading. Two totally different organisms with vastly differing survival instincts and mechanisms.

You second paragraph makes more sense. Pressure will educate a deer faster than anything else. That said, I wouldn't call a 5 year old buck dumb regardless of where he lives. He's no less the wise necessarily, just more care free. Start slinging bullets at him and see how fast he goes underground.

 

[bonemonger]

Nocturnal in my opinion is fact,there was a study in Texas done in two high fence areas. One had hunting and the other had none. As the bucks aged they became increasingly nocturnal in both enclosures, there was no difference in either area. I believe by age three that they were 99% nocturnal.

 

[brock ratcliff]

I think older deer ARE lazy. Watch one walk, they look like me...slow, stiff, rather be back in bed. When young bucks and does are running around playing grab-tail, old bucks stand and watch with a "You're an idiot" look on their face...a lot like me, again. I don't think they are nocturnal, completely. I do think they will generally only move very little from security cover during daylight. As someone said, if you are going to kill one legally, you need to set up at the very edge of his bedroom.

I imagine deer to have a house. They seem to only use one part of that house at any given time, for maybe a few days or weeks, then move on to another part of the house for a while. Sure, they may have a 1 1/2sq mile house, but they only use one room at a time, generally. I believe in the room they are using, they have a safe area, where it is very difficult for you to get to the without them knowing it. It might only be a small corner of their "room", like a closet with a back door. You go marching in, they go marching out the other side. In order to kill a good one, or any deer for that matter, you have to get awful close to his bed without him knowing. Unlike the youngsters and does, he isn't getting up early in the evening for breakfast. I am convinced, they know they are exposed to us during daylight, and they aren't making any moves they don't have to. However, at night, they are much safer... I don't think it's a thing they have reasoned out, I think it's just their nature. It has to be. Look at a lush clover field. Every one I have ever been in is covered with beds, yet I have NEVER seen a deer bed in clover. But, at night, when they are programmed to be out and about, they will eat and bed in the middle of a wide open clover field with no fear. They know (through their nature), that clover field is safe at night... Until bubba shows up with a spotlight, of course.

 

[bowhunter1023]

This old saying comes to mind...

Young buck and old buck are standing on the hill looking over a field full of does. Young buck says: "I'm going to run down there and fuck one of those does". Old buck laughs and says: "Let's walk down and fuck them all".

That implies wisdom you me... lmao

 

[Fluteman]

My opinion is that pressure makes a deer nocturnal. If a deer feels comfortable in an area, he's going to spend the majority of his time there. Trail cameras can be a blessing, as well as a curse. That picture is only giving us a snapshot of a deer's daily routine. I always pay attention to the time and frequency of pictures when I'm trying to pinpoint a deer. Not that I've had great success with it, but I have learned to be realistic when it comes to hunting mature deer. If I'm only getting late night pics of a deer, I know my best shot at killing him is going to be during the rut. I also know that I have better odds of killing a deer I consistently get pictures of around sunrise/sunset. But all it takes is added pressure to cause a deer to change his routine, or worse, completely drive him out of an area.

 

[Boarhead]

This old saying comes to mind...

Young buck and old buck are standing on the hill looking over a field full of does. Young buck says: "I'm going to run down there and fuck one of those does". Old buck laughs and says: "Let's walk down and fuck them all".

That implies wisdom you me... lmao

Lol, Robert Duvall and Sean Penn in 80s movie Colors only used an old bull and young bull.
Good one Jesse.

 

[Fullbore]

A very good thread indeed.
Lots of good stuff discussed here and here's my 2 cents. STANDING CORN...... most mature bucks will lay in it for most of the day. Stand up and stretch, browse a little, then hang out till just before dark. Then as the does start coming in estrus, the Bucks get more bolder.
I notice a lot more day time movement after all the corn is picked! Imo

 

[Fullbore]

My point being is the standing corn is a perfect place for a mature buck to move around during daylight and still be pretty safe.