The art of layering, I need input

[triple_duece]

I’ll drop a penny here, for what it’s worth. Unlike the Midwest, our cold morning ends up in a heater (warm up) by the afternoon, then cools off at sunset. Layers is the best option anywhere. I do love the wind blocker and gortex stuff for wet days. Pick your brand, all the expensive stuff is worth it. Its made w the hunter in mind.

as for boots, I have had to do it a few ways. I’m dead set against a snug boot or big socks making the boot snug on your feet. Tight boots equals outside transferring to your feet.
next would be putting 18 hr hand warmers in your pants, closer to the inner thigh the better. This warms your blood to and fro from your feet. Keep your core warm, or your body will send less blood to your extremities to try to maintain core heat. Last is use boot covers over your boots.

 

[Bowhunter57]

A quality hand muff is very important to keeping your hands warm! I wear thin gloves, 80% of the season, so that I can manage the trigger on my release. When it gets bitter cold, a quality hand muff has a pocket for hand warmers too.

 

[triple_duece]

Also forgot one of the most important thing to keep you warm. A good hat and neck gator

 

[Fluteman]

@Fluteman
The game changer for staying warm for me was buying a battery powered heated vest, by LeapSee. I purchased 2 battery packs to go with it and haven't had to use a second one, unless I was out on an all day hunt. I still wear the same fleece, wool and cotton base layers, but have a thermal long-sleeve shirt with the heated vest outside, then any other layers over the vest. I purchased the fleece vest over the one with "windbreaker" material, because it needs to breath or it'll sweat you real bad.

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Lightweight-Electric-Heating-Rechargeable/dp/B09CYQKP54/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=leapsee+heated+vest+for+men&qid=1664396823&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIzLjQyIiwicXNhIjoiMi45NCIsInFzcCI6IjIuNDcifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=leapsee%2Caps%2C77&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

As for my feet, I still wear LaCrosse knee boots with 1200 gram insulation. I vary the type of socks that I wear with them, according to how warm or cold it is outside. I only wear 2 pairs of socks in the coldest weather....cotton base and wool or thinsulate over them.

So I have a heated vest I received as a gift two years ago, and it does well. In my case, I found out, the more I used it, the more my body "needed" it to stay warm. I can appreciate the fact that you get instant heat, but when the battery dies, or on a day where I didn't wear it, I regretted it. I guess my body acclimated to having that extra heat in the chest area, and in the long run, I felt like it did more harm than good, at least for me when hunting. Appreciate the info though. And wind breaker material makes all the difference between a miserable hunt and a tolerable one.

 

[Fluteman]

Also forgot one of the most important thing to keep you warm. A good hat and neck gator

I will share this one, as I've been using it for four seasons now.

Carhartt Men's Camo Fleece 2-in-1 Hat, Mossy Oak Break Up Country, OFA at Amazon Men’s Clothing store

Buy Carhartt Men's Camo Fleece 2-in-1 Hat, Mossy Oak Break Up Country, OFA: Shop top fashion brands Skullies & Beanies at Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY and Returns possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

I'm glad you brought this up, as I believe this is one of the better purchases I have made for hunting in recent years. This Carhartt Beanie has a sewn, in face mask that is fleece lined, but it's stretchy as well. I can't shoot with a mask on, so I pull it down below my chin when the shot presents itself, and I don't feel like its choking me. The beanie itself is thick and warm. The flaps come down over the ears for added warmth, but can be flipped up to help with hearing movement. It's a bit pricey for a beenie, but IMO, well worth the money.

 

[Fluteman]

@Fluteman I will shamefully admit that I own or have previously owned almost every piece of whitetail gear in the Sitka lineup... plus a wide assortment of their big game and waterfowl lines as well. I know a thing or two 'cuz I've worn a thing or two. Over the past several years I've managed to really dial in my layering game.

Early-Season - down to 45 degrees-ish...
Next to skin: Sitka Core Lightweight pants and tee-shirt
2nd layer Bottom (if below 50): First Lite Kiln 250 longjohns
2nd layer Top: Sitka Fanatic Hoody
3rd layer Top (if below 50): Sitka Celsius Jacket
Pants: Sitka Equinox Pant
Outer layer (if needing windblocker): Sitka Stratus Jacket and Stratus Bibs
Gloves: none or Sitka Fanatic gloves
Hat: ballcap or Sitka Stratus beanie

The beauty of this system is it can cover me in anything from 70-degrees down to the low-40's, just by adding or subtracting a layer here and there. The Equinox pants and the Fanatic hoody are basically worn on every hunt, no matter what. They are staples. The Stratus Jacket and Bibs offer minimal insulation value, but are awesome for blocking the wind. They pack down incredibly well. My normal routine is to walk in and hang my set wearing the Equinox pants, Fanatic hoody, and everything underneath of course. My Stratus set (and sometimes the Celsius jacket) are folded up and attached to my pack. Once I'm settled in my stand, it usually takes 30-60 minutes for me to actually cool down and need the Stratus layer. Obviously that's when I dawn that outer layer. Which is one reason why I prefer the bibs over the regular Stratus pants... I find that the bibs go on easier and they also prevent any drafts going up your back.

Mid-Season - 45-25 degrees-ish...
Next to skin: Sitka Core Lightweight pants and tee-shirt (not always... only if it's a long walk or there risk of sweat and I need moisture-wicking)
2nd layer Bottom: Sitka Core Heavyweight bottoms
2nd layer Top: Fanatic Hoody
3rd layer Top: Sitka Celsius Jacket
Pants: Sitka Equinox Pant
Outer layer Top: Sitka Fanatic Jacket
Outer layer Bottom: Sitka Stratus bibs or Incinerator bibs
Gloves: Sitka Fanatic gloves
Hat: Sitka Stratus beanie

I do not own the Fanatic bibs because the previous versions were "berbery" down the entire legs and I didn't want the nightmare of burrs, like goldenrod and bidens seeds. The Incinerator bibs are arguably warmer, and waterproof, with a tighter knit that's less prone to accumulating burrs. The new Fanatic bibs are redesigned to help with that problem. Some say the Incinerator line is noisy. Is it noisier than the Fanatic?... Yes. Noisy enough to mean the difference in killing a deer?... Maybe. I haven't had any issues with noise yet.

Late-Season - 25 degrees and under...
Next to skin: First Lite Kiln 250 longjohns or Sitka Core Heavyweight bottoms
2nd layer Bottom: Sitka Gradient pants (these fuggers are a gamechanger... seriously... either worn under waders or while deer hunting)
2nd layer Top: Fanatic Hoody or First Lite Furnace Henley
3rd layer Top: Sitka Celsius Jacket
Outer layer Top: Sitka Incinerator Jacket
Outer layer Bottom: Sitka Incinerator bibs
Gloves: Sitka Fanatic gloves, with Sitka merino liner gloves underneath
Hat: Sitka Stratus beanie or Sitka Fanatic beanie

You DO NOT want to walk any sort of distance while wearing the Fanatic or Incinerator outer layers. You WILL sweat... No way around it. My only bitch about the Fanatic line is that it doesn't pack down very well. It is quite bulky. The Incinerator line is warmer and (somehow) packs down to a more compact and manageable bundle.

---

What I have found, Greg, is that while I do prefer a quality baselayer system, I don't personally think the brand or type of baselayer matters as much when you have it paired with HIGH QUALITY mid-layers and outer layers. I can't stress enough how important those outer layers are. The whole trick to being comfortable for long periods on-stand is moisture management and wind management. Insulation is the easy part. It is absolutely essential that you walk in to your spots wearing as little as possible, in order to prevent sweating. Then... give yourself ample time to cool down while in the tree or blind, before putting on your mid- and/or outer layers. Once your body temp is stable and you've got a good insulation system, that outer layer's ability to block the wind really comes into play. At that point, it's simply a matter of ergonomics, fit, pocket layout, zipper layout, etc that makes one piece shine over another. And in my 100% honest opinion, Sitka does that better than anyone else on the market. Kuiu is right up there as well.

I don't want to toot my own horn here, but I pride myself on the amount of time I spend on-stand while I'm out hunting. I don't hunt many days in a given season, but when I do, it's usually during the rut and it's usually at least a 6-8 hour sit... sometimes longer. I've been hunting this way for a long time. Early on in this approach, I would absolutely suffer through a sit because I was so uncomfortable... usually due to the cold. The past 3 or 4 years I've been building my Sitka regime and it has made an incredible difference. I can honestly say I've never been more comfortable while hunting in extreme conditions than I am currently. I can say that for my deer hunting, my duck hunting, my ice fishing... you name it. A lot of people scoff at Sitka and say it's a waste of money, or that it's not worth it, insinuating that hunters spending that kind of money on gear are foolish. Well, the fact is, those people simply haven't owned any Sitka, or other similar "high-end" garments. And that's totally fine. You certainly don't need to spend that kind of money on "hunting clothes." But me personally, I like to prioritize my money on things that keep my ass comfortable in a treestand or in a duck marsh. It simply makes everything much more enjoyable.

This is the type of experience and insight I was hoping someone on this forum would share. I learned years ago, much to my wallets detriment, that quality gear make for a worthwhile investment. But everything I currently own is showing it's age, so it's time to start upgrading. I will still use my Cabelas ECWS layers for moderate temperatures, but the next base layer purchase I make will be something heavier so I have choices.

I currently run three layers on the bottom and four layers up top on the coldest of days in SE Ohio (the bulk is managable), and it sounds like you are doing the same up North, so it sounds like I'm not necessarily going to get away with reducing any layers. But if I can reduce bulk any, it's worth the investment. It's a shame the Fanatic gear doesn't pack down smaller, as I will be carrying both the bibs and jacket in when I go into hunt. Fortunately for me, the majority of my hunts are at the farm, so I don't have crazy long hikes in with a ton of gear. I still play the mobility game when needed, but that's far less than it was for me ten years ago.

I can appreciate and echo your thoughts on moisture and wind management when on the stand. My current regime for cold weather hunting is base layers on bottom, then fleece pants with windshear over, and a base layer up top. Once I get on stand, I add my 3/4 zip UA fleece up top. From there, it's a waiting game for me. If I start to get chilly, I add a cabelas fleece vest with windshear, then I'll add windsear bibs, and then either a UA fleece outer shell, that does not have windshear, or a cabelas wool sweater with windshear. For me, adding layers when I start to get chilly optimizes my time on stand. I'm sure it's different for everybody.

Appreciate the input Jim!

 

[Fluteman]

I’ve never worn a pair of true gloves that kept my fingers warm all day. Mittens seem to do the best job. But my go-to is a hand muff around my waste or a part of my jacket. Thin liner gloves on my hands, and hands stuffed into a quality hand muff. They only come out for glassing and killing. Well, and dicking off on my phone now and again.

I shoot a t-handle release, so heavy gloves have never worked for me. I typically wear a liner glove, or and early season polyester blend glove and run the big hand warmers in my pockets. I don't like variables when it comes to the moment of truth, as I always find a way to create havoc when that happens anyway. I can shoot the Stan release with a lightweight glove on, but if I have time, I slip it off.

 

[jagermeister]

This is the type of experience and insight I was hoping someone on this forum would share. I learned years ago, much to my wallets detriment, that quality gear make for a worthwhile investment. But everything I currently own is showing it's age, so it's time to start upgrading. I will still use my Cabelas ECWS layers for moderate temperatures, but the next base layer purchase I make will be something heavier so I have choices.

I currently run three layers on the bottom and four layers up top on the coldest of days in SE Ohio (the bulk is managable), and it sounds like you are doing the same up North, so it sounds like I'm not necessarily going to get away with reducing any layers. But if I can reduce bulk any, it's worth the investment. It's a shame the Fanatic gear doesn't pack down smaller, as I will be carrying both the bibs and jacket in when I go into hunt. Fortunately for me, the majority of my hunts are at the farm, so I don't have crazy long hikes in with a ton of gear. I still play the mobility game when needed, but that's far less than it was for me ten years ago.

I can appreciate and echo your thoughts on moisture and wind management when on the stand. My current regime for cold weather hunting is base layers on bottom, then fleece pants with windshear over, and a base layer up top. Once I get on stand, I add my 3/4 zip UA fleece up top. From there, it's a waiting game for me. If I start to get chilly, I add a cabelas fleece vest with windshear, then I'll add windsear bibs, and then either a UA fleece outer shell, that does not have windshear, or a cabelas wool sweater with windshear. For me, adding layers when I start to get chilly optimizes my time on stand. I'm sure it's different for everybody.

Appreciate the input Jim!

Glad to help, brother.

The other thing I’ll say about Sitka that I didn’t mention before is that all of their gear is MADE for layering. That doesn’t mean much to some people when they first hear/read it. But what it means is their layers are incredibly effective while also being low on bulk. The material used and the designs are so on-point. From the thumb loops, to the slick outer surface, to the primaloft… it all adds up. The Celsius jacket for example… it’s a grid-stitched primaloft jacket with thumb holes and a smooth and silent outer material. No, it’s not something you want to wear as an outer layer if you can help it. But when worn underneath something else, you get awesome insulation value with little-to-no perceived bulk. This obviously leads to more comfort and more sustained range of motion.

 

[Fluteman]

Since Sitka had a 25% off sale, and I was looking to add to the arsenal of gear purchased last fall, I had to come back and re-read this thread and update.

Before my "rut-cation" kicked off last fall, I purchased the Fanatic Bibs and Jacket, as well as the Fanatic Hoodie based on the information I received here. The sticker shock was there, but those feelings quickly went away when they showed up a few days later. To say this set was very well engineered and the quality top notch would be a severe understatement. My only complaints, and I knew this going in, was that they don't condense down very well to pack in.

I ended up hunting the better half of November and December in this gear, and I am more than pleased. In temperatures in the teens, with the winds blowing, I never once got cold, or even chilled. I have never been so warm and comfortable in a treestand. Walking in, I would wear my ECWCS base layer up top and the hoodie, and ECWCS base layers and the bibs on bottom with the legs zipped down from my waist to the top of my boots. This would keep me cool until I was on stand. Once I cooled down on stand, the jacket would go on, and I was good all day. The kangaroo pouch is windproof as well, and one large hand warmer was enough to keep the hands toasty in the cool weather.

Tonight, I purchased the Stratus pants and vest. Hoping by adjusting base layers accordingly, this setup paired with the fanatic hoodie can get me through until I need the Fanatic gear.

Appreciate all the input fellas. This wasn't an easy purchase, but one I wish I would have made years ago! If you don't know, now you know!

 

[5Cent]

Well Hi there! You hiding that @huntn2 fella somewhere too?

 

[jagermeister]

Since Sitka had a 25% off sale, and I was looking to add to the arsenal of gear purchased last fall, I had to come back and re-read this thread and update.

Before my "rut-cation" kicked off last fall, I purchased the Fanatic Bibs and Jacket, as well as the Fanatic Hoodie based on the information I received here. The sticker shock was there, but those feelings quickly went away when they showed up a few days later. To say this set was very well engineered and the quality top notch would be a severe understatement. My only complaints, and I knew this going in, was that they don't condense down very well to pack in.

I ended up hunting the better half of November and December in this gear, and I am more than pleased. In temperatures in the teens, with the winds blowing, I never once got cold, or even chilled. I have never been so warm and comfortable in a treestand. Walking in, I would wear my ECWCS base layer up top and the hoodie, and ECWCS base layers and the bibs on bottom with the legs zipped down from my waist to the top of my boots. This would keep me cool until I was on stand. Once I cooled down on stand, the jacket would go on, and I was good all day. The kangaroo pouch is windproof as well, and one large hand warmer was enough to keep the hands toasty in the cool weather.

Tonight, I purchased the Stratus pants and vest. Hoping by adjusting base layers accordingly, this setup paired with the fanatic hoodie can get me through until I need the Fanatic gear.

Appreciate all the input fellas. This wasn't an easy purchase, but one I wish I would have made years ago! If you don't know, now you know!

Great update, Greg. I wore a Fanatic jacket a good portion of last season as well. When it gets cold, there’s not a better bowhunting jacket on the market in my opinion. Start saving pennies for a Stratus jacket. It’s light but blocks the wind well enough… With a couple good layers it’ll get you down into the upper 30’s, until you need to switch over to the Fanatic. Good to hear from ya!

 

[Jamie]

The Stratus jacket, pants, and bibs are the best, most useful hunting gear I've ever owned. Quiet, comfortable, effective at blocking wind and cut perfectly for layering and shooting a traditional bow. Probably the best money I ever spent on hunting clothes. The Fanatic vest makes a great additional layer with the Stratus jacket, too, on those frosty November mornings that start out in the upper 20's. I like my Fanatic bibs and coat, but as well as they are cut, they are still bulky enough to interfere a little with shooting my bow. I actually need to practice while wearing it when it gets that cold out, but it is still the least cumbersome cold weather gear I've ever had.

 

[huntn2]

Well Hi there! You hiding that @huntn2 fella somewhere too?
View attachment 179585

I still linger on a periodic basis….life and career get in the way a bunch but I’m alive and well. Appreciate you reaching out 5 cent.

 

[giles]

This thread just lapsed 5 years. Where's your brother in law?

 

[xbowguy]

This thread just lapsed 5 years. Where's your brother in law?

I talk with Nick fairly regular. He seems to be doing quite well these days.

 

[giles]

I talk with Nick fairly regular. He seems to be doing quite well these days.

I see his memes show up every now and then.

 

[xbowguy]

I see his memes show up every now and then.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Well, y'all can welcome a new member of the blue camo crew I'm tired of being cold and as much as I like my First Lite, it only moved the needle so far. After the last 3 mornings and some help from @Fluteman and @huntn2 who deserve a commission, and Scheels having a well timed sale, I'm now a Sitka fan boy. Gonna be some lightly used FL for sale very soon!

 

[jagermeister]

Well, y'all can welcome a new member of the blue camo crew I'm tired of being cold and as much as I like my First Lite, it only moved the needle so far. After the last 3 mornings and some help from @Fluteman and @huntn2 who deserve a commission, and Scheels having a well timed sale, I'm now a Sitka fan boy. Gonna be some lightly used FL for sale very soon!

I still appreciate FL’s baselayers… but from an exterior and an all-around standpoint, Sitka gets the nod from me. KUIU is right up there as well.

 

[triple_duece]

Well, y'all can welcome a new member of the blue camo crew I'm tired of being cold and as much as I like my First Lite, it only moved the needle so far. After the last 3 mornings and some help from @Fluteman and @huntn2 who deserve a commission, and Scheels having a well timed sale, I'm now a Sitka fan boy. Gonna be some lightly used FL for sale very soon!

I’ve hunted in my stratus bibs and hoody with just a pair of bdu’s and short sleeve t shirt when it was 23 here.