And they can ask you why the heck are you killing them then???... But we'll gladly take your money...lol
And they can ask you why the heck are you killing them then???... But we'll gladly take your money...lol
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And tell them to use this one. It's on the cool little certificate that the dnr site made for me. I submitted the photo on the dnr site and once approved they made me the certificate and mailed it to me. It even has the chiefs signature on it. 
When you save this one to your photobucket you can name it dickhead2 lmao. It'll be a name your buddy will be very familiar with soon.
When you save this one to your photobucket you can name it dickhead2 lmao. It'll be a name your buddy will be very familiar with soon.
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See. This is where your mistaken. I personally am not going to raise a single grievance to the dnr.. But I'm going to try my best at getting as many of the other 500,000 deer hunters in this state to voice theirs. And businesses like processors who have seen their volume drop 40%. See, that's the problem with a kill them all management philosophy, you're undoubtedly going to piss off plenty of people. A Sad little attempt at negative pr about how the guy pushing the issue shot this or that is a moot point. People only care about what they saw, and the vast majority of them i can say have probably seen their deer numbers plumit. I don't need to get all 500,000 hunters on board, hell I bet i don't even need 10%. Either way i bet the 2013 dnr open house will be a good time. I'm just going to stand in the back of the room and smile. And maybe wink at Tonk if he's still around.
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Nope.. No way in hell. Best buck shot on the property this year was about a 125 and was a guys first bow kill... Not saying there aren't 160 class deer around. However they are few and far between and have a shitload more timber to hide in than up here.
Wasn't always that way. Here are a few bucks in the cabin that came off the property in years past. These mounts are all from around 2000-2005. They just look like shit because they're in a cabin that nobody really lives in that was built in the mid 1800s.. And these are just the ones guys mounted to leave at the cabin, not the ones at home on their wall. Since I have hunted there and been a member since 2005 there has been ONE p&y deer shot off the property. I have also seen the property go from feast to famine. The hollow I tested the Scent Smoker in constantly had about 15 deer filter through it.. I can take you to that same hollow today and you'll be lucky to see one every couple days.
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Huckleberry Finn
Senior Member
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Holding them by the ears and tail makes for the absolute best "hero shots"! I love it!
My wife disagrees! She says I'm stretching her ears out to look like mine... :smiley_crocodile:
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Mike claims the following
Here is a 3 year old clearcut in VC that is about 250 acres.. It butts up against another 250 acres of pines that are about 15 years old.. and about 500 acres of mature 50 year old growth hardwoods. I had to cut a path back through it after an ice storm.. That's 500 acres of prime whitetail non farmed habitat.. Yet you'll be LUCKY to drive 10 deer out of it in a day...
Yet here is 500 acres I was hunting this year.. Timber so thin you ca see through it and ag.. Maybe 90% tillable... Yet I can show you 2 deer in the 130s, 3 in the 140s and one in the 160s on this parcel.. And wold count between 5-15 does a sit.. This is a picture of a deer that came in before i could even get in my stand..
So If I follow mikes logic of how deer population increased between the 60s and 90s due to DNR regulation and transition from farming to timber growth; then this area in VC should have so many deer today they'll be stacked on top of each other.. While the other shouldn't have a deer at all, as it's still heavily farmed..
While mikes explain may still be true of how zone C came to be a mecca. It doens't explain how the other did.. As exactly what he is blaming "farming and lack of timber" is still present in the bountiful property... It also doesn't explain how the above logic has somehow reversed impact in the past 20 years in vc... Why is it that increase in timber worked between the 60s and 90s but now at has taken a nosedive... Well, there is one explanation.... VC is hunted way harder than the other location, and through overbagging at the hands of the DNR it has caused a massive decline.. Where as the other property that is still AG and lightly hunted is flourishing.... But apparently that is lunacy.
Here is a 3 year old clearcut in VC that is about 250 acres.. It butts up against another 250 acres of pines that are about 15 years old.. and about 500 acres of mature 50 year old growth hardwoods. I had to cut a path back through it after an ice storm.. That's 500 acres of prime whitetail non farmed habitat.. Yet you'll be LUCKY to drive 10 deer out of it in a day...
Yet here is 500 acres I was hunting this year.. Timber so thin you ca see through it and ag.. Maybe 90% tillable... Yet I can show you 2 deer in the 130s, 3 in the 140s and one in the 160s on this parcel.. And wold count between 5-15 does a sit.. This is a picture of a deer that came in before i could even get in my stand..
So If I follow mikes logic of how deer population increased between the 60s and 90s due to DNR regulation and transition from farming to timber growth; then this area in VC should have so many deer today they'll be stacked on top of each other.. While the other shouldn't have a deer at all, as it's still heavily farmed..
While mikes explain may still be true of how zone C came to be a mecca. It doens't explain how the other did.. As exactly what he is blaming "farming and lack of timber" is still present in the bountiful property... It also doesn't explain how the above logic has somehow reversed impact in the past 20 years in vc... Why is it that increase in timber worked between the 60s and 90s but now at has taken a nosedive... Well, there is one explanation.... VC is hunted way harder than the other location, and through overbagging at the hands of the DNR it has caused a massive decline.. Where as the other property that is still AG and lightly hunted is flourishing.... But apparently that is lunacy.
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Mike claims the following
Here is a 3 year old clearcut in VC that is about 250 acres.. It butts up against another 250 acres of pines that are about 15 years old.. and about 500 acres of mature 50 year old growth hardwoods. I had to cut a path back through it after an ice storm.. That's 500 acres of prime whitetail non farmed habitat.. Yet you'll be LUCKY to drive 10 deer out of it in a day...
Yet here is 500 acres I was hunting this year.. Timber so thin you ca see through it and ag.. Maybe 90% tillable... Yet I can show you 2 deer in the 130s, 3 in the 140s and one in the 160s on this parcel.. And wold count between 5-15 does a sit.. This is a picture of a deer that came in before i could even get in my stand..
So If I follow mikes logic of how deer population increased between the 60s and 90s due to DNR regulation and transition from farming to timber growth; then this area in VC should have so many deer today they'll be stacked on top of each other.. While the other shouldn't have a deer at all, as it's still heavily farmed..
While mikes explain may still be true of how zone C came to be a mecca. It doens't explain how the other did.. As exactly what he is blaming "farming and lack of timber" is still present in the bountiful property... It also doesn't explain how the above logic has somehow reversed impact in the past 20 years in vc... Why is it that increase in timber worked between the 60s and 90s but now at has taken a nosedive... Well, there is one explanation.... VC is hunted way harder than the other location, and through overbagging at the hands of the DNR it has caused a massive decline.. Where as the other property that is still AG and lightly hunted is flourishing.... But apparently that is lunacy.
Joe...please consider that your lease does not encompass all of Vinton County and the farm you hunted in Champaign or Logan Co does not represent every farm there either. Although I would agree that the chances of encountering a big buck in those counties are better for a variety of reasons. Also consider that VC is an anomaly in SE Ohio and always has been. When doe tags were first available over the counter in D4, you still had to put in for a doe tag lottery in VC, even though VC was and is the most heavily forested county in the state. Also consider that hitching your cart to JD's horse is not the same as blindly knocking on doors in west central Ohio. JD is a very accomplished big buck killer and he hasn't had that success without at least some knowledge of knowing where and where not to look for big deer. If you want to argue that reforestation has not been a major contributor to the rebound of the whitetail deer in eastern Ohio then we're never going to agree on anything.
As for your crusade to save deer hunting as we know it...I don't totally disagree with you and I wish more hunters shared your passion. Again, been there, done that. I get a half a dozen phone calls a day from hunters I don't personally know from all parts of the state. For the past couple weeks, I've been conducting my own informal survey of the statewide deer population through the eyes of the hunters I speak with and without question, the majority of the guys I'm talking with say that deer sightings are down in the area that they hunt. IMO, this is a more accurate view than this website as this is pretty much the same crows on the power line everyday. Based on what I'm hearing, this sounds like 1995 all over again. And if that's the case, hunters will start to kick and scream just as we did then...and just like in the past, life will go on and things will eventually get better. It took Jimmy Carter to have Ronald Reagan.
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It is not only this location in VC Mike.. A buddies property 15 miles north has the same issue, 6 miles away on salt creek, 2 miles away on us 50, 3 miles away in Ray, people at the check station / restaurant report the same, the butcher at Double D ranch has seen a 40% decrease in business. I don't pigeonhole myself to what I see on that one property to formulate an opinion.. Not even one county.. Every hunter I come across at a gas station, bar, wal-mart, wherever I am in this state and can identify a hunter I ask the same questions.... I just walk up and ask.. And Unanimously I have gotten the same answer time and time again.. They have seen the numbers drop dramatically.. I'm happy that you have started to talk with some people all over the state and formulating an opinion outside Athens... I have been doing that for years.
So while we are the same old crows, it's not only these crows I have spoken to.. Along those same lines.. In the spring I plan to launch a comprehensive hunter survey system. Possibly the largest independent survey ever presented to hunters in the state of Ohio.. So the flock of crows will get larger.. You're right, the people will begin to kick and scream, the sentiment and anger is already there, they just don't have an effective means to accomplish it and direct it in an organized manner.. That is what I wish to provide them.. Right now they are not being listened to I simply want to organize that voice into a formidable force that MUST be heard and recognized. I am going to do what the OBA should have done and organize into a formidable voice FOR hunters in the state of Ohio. We will let the results of the surveys and the people speak for themselves..
Also.. About JD.. You are correct.. I can't take the area he's hunting and say it's representative to rest of Ohio.. Nor can you with Athens, Or Zach in Tuscarawas.. But I would venture to say those locations are not the norm, or even close. If they we're people everywhere would be knocking down deer like JD, Zach, and you.. However they aren't.. Nor can I say my lease in VC is the norm for the rest of ohio. The truth is somewhere in between.. But I would put money on it that the in between is far far closer to my VC property than it is to the property you guys hunt... Mike, My lease in VC at one time was just like yalls properties.. I have even told JD this before when we talked, I believe my exact words were "This is just like VC was back in 2005" Deer galore.
I see the work JD, you and others put in.. But don't assume others in this state don't do the same and that is the reason for their lack of success. For the most part you guys have diamonds in a pile of coal. That diamond has to exist in the pile before someone can find it.. In many areas of ohio it simply doesn't exist today.. Before I hunted the VC lease it was lights out from around 1998 - 2005. If that doesn't worry you man something is wrong.. Zach is already seeing it start to happen in his area.. Your buddies are seeing it happen.. You are not immune either.. As I said for the past couple years.. If you aren't seeing it, give it time.. Sure you can move to new areas, scout new places, and do all that.. But the problem is it's spreading and you won't be able to stay one step ahead forever if something isn't done to turn it around.. There is always a bit of high ground in a flood.. Don't stand on your dry rock and whistle hoping the water doesn't rise much higher.. Because there are many that have already drown.
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Just for the record Joe.......I dont have it as easy as everyone thinks, nor do some of these other guys. Up until killing my buck I didnt have a single mature 140 buck on cam.... I do not see all of JDs or your pics from JDs place...but I can gurantee you that the my properties dont hold a candle to his..... Just from the photos you posted you guys had some hogs down there....and I am sure there are more. which is none of my business, nor none of my concern. Last year was an exception...we had 3 140+ deer that were all 4+ yo deer.... Through good fortune we were able to harvest all them... I usually have 1 deer I set out for a year..Just one... I can only imagine having 3 or 4 140+ deer to hunt.... Again, im sure ill get hammered because here I am heading my own conversation about me....Because Im soooooo arrogant... When in all honesty...Its just the facts..... A mature deer is a mature deer no matter where you go....seeing him is one thing..killing him is another.. IF killing big bucks at JDs is to easy for you, set your sights on just 1 of the bucks you get on cam...then tell me how easy it is to kill 1 specific deer....
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Don't get me wrong, I didn't say it was easy up there man. lol.. You still have to scout, hunt, and cam your ass off. I had 128 hours in the stand before I shot that deer.. And it was a stand JD put me in, I had never set foot on that property before.. All I did was tap the release.. But I did pass on about a 140 8pt two weeks earlier that I had on cam, and had a 150 class in range that I had never seen just a week later as I was walking to get a seat from a stand
You will never hear me say you, Jd, mike or the rest have it "easy" and you don't bust your ass. Ever!! Lol. However don't assume others don't put in the same effort and intensity as you guys but without the success. Someone from vc can do the same thing. If the property isn't there to find, you can bust your ass harder than all of y'all combined and it's not going to happen. There are far less successful people in this state that bust their ass just the same. What I want to see is an Ohio like y'all hunt. Not an Ohio like what I have seen happen in vc and much of the rest of the state.
When Jd put me on one of his properties I didn't bust my ass any less or more that i did in vc.. Ask him if I was a slacker.. I started running cams with him on that place back in late June.. Was out there every weekend either checking cams, listening to him, or driving in circles around it with my Binos.. I talked to neighboring landowners and hunters when I saw them. I scouted, poured over maps, moved cams, and hung stands.. I was around every weekend.. I drove back 3.5 hours from a piece of ass Indiana one Sunday just to come back and check cameras since he had the time that evening.. And when season came there wasn't hardly a morning or evening my ass wasn't in a stand rain or shine, and every free evening I had during the week.. On November 2nd when I shot that deer I had 128 hours in a stand for the season..
2 weeks ago I carried over 400 lbs of corn out to the property and set up 4 cams.. I'm not even hunting there anymore this year.. All I want to know is what made it, where they are in late season, and see any new bucks that may be holed up there... Preparation for next deer season started the day after Muzzy. Durring muzzy i was hunting somewhere else on one of Alexs properties. Durring lunch I made the 15 mile drive to the other property just to drive around and see who was hunting around it and where... I could have drove 3 miles home and took a nap between hunts. But I drove 15 miles to the prop JD let me hunt just to check on it and see If i could get another piece of the puzzle.. This is nothing new to me.. This is how I've always hunted.. I busted my ass just the same in VC.. Always have.. The point I am trying to make is, busting your ass is not enough, and it's not the sole factor that makes someone a successful hunter.. Look at poor buckless fluteman.. Busts his ass.. It just isn't happening for him. But his lack of success, or mine in VC, doesn't make us any less of a "hunter" than Mike, You, or JD.
Mike, Flutey is close to you.. Lets try something, take him under your wing next season, show him some property lines and let him go. I bet he smacks a good one next year.. I would put money on it.. Not saying the property you hunt is "easy".. Or that what you do is "easy".. We know better than that.. What I am saying is, he's no less of a hunter that anyone else. And once we prove this point.. Lets try to make Ohio like Athens, like Tuscarawas, like urbana.. And reverse this crap that VC, Washington, and other vast areas of ohio has seen.
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I thought we were just talking about seeing deer in general, now it sounds as if we need a trophy buck in every 40 acre parcel......
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I'm not a Biologist, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night; but I'm fairly confident buck deers fall out of a doe deers puss at some point. lol
Chicken or the egg man.
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I just want deer. Big bucks I can find. Can't kill 'em, but I know they are there. But I'll never kill what's not there...
15 to 20 years ago it was rare to see a deer much above 100" around home.....now in the last 5 years guys are passing those deer up like they are spike bucks. Ohio hunting is better now than many other states, and will continue to be, I am confident in that. The guys that have started hunting in the last 10 years or so don't realize just how good it has been in the past. The new age deer hunters want everything at their fingertips, just like today's technology.
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There are two sides to every mountain man an ascent and a descent. Remembering the climb will not stop your slide after you crested the peak. last I checked the declining numbers were declining numbers. There are plenty of states that were awesome but are now crap. Just as Ohio has risen to the top let's try to keep it there. And killing massive amounts of does is not the way to do it.
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The numbers from 95 tell me all I need to know...I saw more, we shot more in less time, and it was more fun. Back then, I felt a person could kill a 140+ buck anywhere. We didn't have trail cams all over the place to know what was around, you had to look for them. When I saw a good one back then, I assumed he was the boss in the area. My gawd, I wish I had BECs back then to know what was really around!
I spent the day (from about 1030 to 3) scouting for deer. I'm not looking for a "good" buck, just some deer! My 8 year old still has a tag, and I'm hoping to find him something to hunt. I covered a good bit of ground, gonna cover more tomorrow. Went to one private property, found a few tracks but not much...though one set was BIG. On the public land below my house, I found a ton of turkey sign, and saw about 40. There were a few deer tracks in the fields too....so we may set up there just to watch turkeys and hopefully see a deer.
This is no BS...there are few deer. I have to cover a lot of ground to find 'em. There used to be huntable populations on most any piece of habitat you wanted to hunt. Now, instead of hunting places we can get into without blowing out deer, we just have to hunt where the deer are----if I can find 'em! Its very similar to elk hunting in that there are miles and miles of nothing, and small pockets with a few....freakin nuts!
I spent the day (from about 1030 to 3) scouting for deer. I'm not looking for a "good" buck, just some deer! My 8 year old still has a tag, and I'm hoping to find him something to hunt. I covered a good bit of ground, gonna cover more tomorrow. Went to one private property, found a few tracks but not much...though one set was BIG. On the public land below my house, I found a ton of turkey sign, and saw about 40. There were a few deer tracks in the fields too....so we may set up there just to watch turkeys and hopefully see a deer.
This is no BS...there are few deer. I have to cover a lot of ground to find 'em. There used to be huntable populations on most any piece of habitat you wanted to hunt. Now, instead of hunting places we can get into without blowing out deer, we just have to hunt where the deer are----if I can find 'em! Its very similar to elk hunting in that there are miles and miles of nothing, and small pockets with a few....freakin nuts!