TSI, Forestry, EQUIP
- Thread starter at1010
- Start date
FYI, the OSU Extension office puts together some interesting and often useful webinars about timber management and other topics. There’s one coming up on January 15th. Register at go.osu.edu/mapledays2021
Big_Holla
Senior Member
I sent our first email to the State Forester for Meigs County today. Will keep everyone posted on what the process will be and what he says. It's funny, I spent 2 years in forestry classes in college towards 2 of my degrees yet I feel like I know nothing when it comes to this. So I hope I can help educate any on here who might be in my shoes as well.
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Awesome Chuck! Let us know how it goes and what you learn!!
I'm meeting with my State Service Forester next Thursday. appreciate the info. hopeful that I can get on track to remain in CAUV, but under the timber management instead of agriculture.
Big_Holla
Senior Member
I definitely would be interested to hear what the process is and what they do for you. Did you have to submit anything to them to get started such as marked up aerials or do anything on your land before they come out?
no, I just sent the guy an email last weekend. he got back with me Monday morning. we exchanged a few emails, and arranged the meeting. he looked up my parcel information on the county auditors website to get directions to the property as there is no physical address.
this is the free service forester. based on what he has to say after seeing the place and how he answers my questions, I'll probably have to hire a Forester to write a management plan for the county auditors paperwork for my continued participation in CAUV. this is what I think is going to happen, but, like you, I spent three years in the Natural Resources program at OSU, majoring in wildlife management, but I don't know a thing about these programs. this thread had been a great motivation for me to get off my ass and do something about my situation as a landowner.
this is the free service forester. based on what he has to say after seeing the place and how he answers my questions, I'll probably have to hire a Forester to write a management plan for the county auditors paperwork for my continued participation in CAUV. this is what I think is going to happen, but, like you, I spent three years in the Natural Resources program at OSU, majoring in wildlife management, but I don't know a thing about these programs. this thread had been a great motivation for me to get off my ass and do something about my situation as a landowner.
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So... to enroll in NRCS Equip programs, I don't think you all will need to hire a private forester. I had hired a private forester, because I trust him and I want him to handle my timber harvest, quotes, marking tress prior to harvest, etc. That might not be the BEST way but it is a way in which I feel comfortable handling the timber on our property.
However, when I applied for EQUIP, they only used the free state forester's plan and did not use my private foresters plan - other than that of a reference. The free state forester plan was almost as detailed in drawing and write up as the private foresters plan albeit not in as nice of a presentation binder, not sure that matters at all.
I did bring my private foresters plan at the NRCS meeting, and the NRCS guy did look over it but I truly believe it was just an add on, and not need. To be honest, there was very limited variances between the plans.
@jagermeister - Jim might know more but the above is going off my experience and memory - both of which can get blurred at times, so my apologies if I did mis-speak.
Good luck guys!! I am pumped this is helping some folks out!!
However, when I applied for EQUIP, they only used the free state forester's plan and did not use my private foresters plan - other than that of a reference. The free state forester plan was almost as detailed in drawing and write up as the private foresters plan albeit not in as nice of a presentation binder, not sure that matters at all.
I did bring my private foresters plan at the NRCS meeting, and the NRCS guy did look over it but I truly believe it was just an add on, and not need. To be honest, there was very limited variances between the plans.
@jagermeister - Jim might know more but the above is going off my experience and memory - both of which can get blurred at times, so my apologies if I did mis-speak.
Good luck guys!! I am pumped this is helping some folks out!!
Smawgunner2
Active Member
We’re in that program and they come out once every 5 years. We cut grape vine and Autumn Olive. But honestly you don’t have to cut or timber anything. You could just say you’re passing it down to the next generation, there’s no obligation to timber. Easy way to get your taxes down!
Big_Holla
Senior Member
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Forester should help with all of this type of stuff. Even down to wildlife goals vs. balancing income producing goals. An example would be to mark a white oak that is a consistent producer. I think it was Dr. Craig Harper who mentioned that some very high % of acorns are produced by a small % of oaks. Similar to the 80/20 rule but I am not 100% sure that was it. Anyway, a forester can help you to look at an oak stand that needs thinned, mark trees with dogbows in them as "cut" trees and leave trees that are good for a future timber crop or acorn producers. There is a balance in there somewhere but my advice is don't be shy with the forester with your goals, but also learn from them as they are experts in this field.
My 2 cents. I know it is a big intimidating to talk about cutting timber but secondary successional habitat is about as good as it gets for a large variety of wildlife - including big bucks.
Big_Holla
Senior Member
Thanks Al, just having this conversation going on here has helped me get the motivation to get things done. Our place definitely needs cut where the big woods are as you can see hundreds of yards with very little ground cover. Definitely prepared for that to happen and will be interesting to hear what they have to say.
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The work is not all for nothing! Really cool video that was shared. Great group of folks who appear to truly love their farm. This is about as good of a hindsight look as one can get, without looking back on their own past 25 years. Enjoy!
I met with ODNR Service Forester yesterday. We had a nice conversation while we walked my property. He was knowledgeable and candid with me about my options and some good information about things I can do to manage the timber for eventual harvest. He did say that I have plenty of quality timber, White Oaks, particularly, that it will probably be worth my while to pursue the timber management option with Consulting Forester. I'm going to look into applying for EQUIP monies. he told me that could help offset the cost of hiring a Forester to write a woodland management plan for CAUV. that ship sailed last week for this year, so if I get on with it now, I might be able to get this all in order for next tax year. I'll move forward after I get Service Foresters report from him. so far, so good, but I have lots of unanswered questions still, and I hate dealing with the County Auditors office. no avoiding it now, I guess. 
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I met with ODNR Service Forester yesterday. We had a nice conversation while we walked my property. He was knowledgeable and candid with me about my options and some good information about things I can do to manage the timber for eventual harvest. He did say that I have plenty of quality timber, White Oaks, particularly, that it will probably be worth my while to pursue the timber management option with Consulting Forester. I'm going to look into applying for EQUIP monies. he told me that could help offset the cost of hiring a Forester to write a woodland management plan for CAUV. that ship sailed last week for this year, so if I get on with it now, I might be able to get this all in order for next tax year. I'll move forward after I get Service Foresters report from him. so far, so good, but I have lots of unanswered questions still, and I hate dealing with the County Auditors office. no avoiding it now, I guess.
Happy to hear it went well!!
I have liked my private forester and he comes fairly well recommend based on the NRCS folks I’ve spoke with.
If you need a recommendation or want his information DM me and I am happy to share!
Stressless
Active Member
To clarify:
The NCRS office in Each County is a Federal program executed by the states. They work the EQIP $ based on what the STATE wants the forestry lands to do - So def talk to your County Forestry agent - AND - the local NCRS officer executing the "Rack and Stack" of all the EQIP requests. Those get funded at Federal Level, then divided up by the state to the 88 County NCRS offices. The current 2015-2020 Ohio State Forestery Plan is "https://ohiodnr.gov/wps/portal/gov/odnr/discover-and-learn/safety-conservation/about-ODNR/forestry/state-forest-management/state-forests-management-plan" This is "What" they want done, and "Where" they will pull the requirements the NCRS office uses to adjudicate which EQIP request will be funded. My local NCRS officer works both Holmes and Coshocton counties (two different offices, depends on the day) I HIGHLY recommend you get what the COUNTY wants done (it's priorities are where they will fund the limited money). Note that a New 5 year plan will be coming out this spring/year - If you haven't started your efforts I would Highly suggest you wait and let this document drop, then pull the prioritized requirements from it and match the ones you want/need with your lands. This is all corroborated within your own Woodland Stewardship Management Plan developed with the local State Forester.
The NCRS Woodland Stewardship Management Plan template is located here: https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs144p2_029223.doc
Next, since we're talking Money, is the County level taxation program - called Current Agricultural Use Value (CAUV) This is an "adjunct" with the EQIP NCRS Program. The other Tax saving program in OHIO for private forestland is Ohio Forest Tax Law (OFTL).
Depending on your personal goals one of them is better than the other. Generally, "wildlife improvements" as an example, Hinge Cuts etc are not recognized as "improvements" via the NCRS->EQIP for managing Trees as 'crops' - which is how you get the CAUV tax breaks. OFTL doesn't have these restrictions. You'll need to read both programs, talk with your local forester, NCRS officer and make some decisions based on what your goals for your individual property are. Any acres not in either of these programs (I have some acres in the CAUV program, Some in OTFL) as my goal is #1 Recreational enjoyment, 2# Wildlife Management so only the acres I plan to continually do selevtive lumbing in are in CAUV, the rest are covered in OTFL which is where I do wildlife projects.
Interestingly, Jeff posted a video up this AM about Mono cultures and divestity pockets and I equate that to CAUV and OTFL. It's worth a listen.
Steps:
- Have Land with Trees and current ag land can be included but CAUV, EQIP is dedicated to forestry improvement only
- Call and setup a meeting with your local OHIO state Forestry Agent (link to them above by @at1010 )
- Create an Ohio Forestry Management Plan FMP Required Every 10 years for CAUV and is your stepping stone to capturing EQIP $.
-- Build out your FMP highlighting requirements pulled from the 2021-2025 "Ohio State Forest 5-Year Management Plan"
- Submit your FMP to the NCRS office - They need to put their thumb print on it for BOTH
-- Their internal yearly EQIP Rack and Stack for which farms get how much $ - it is very limited
-- Your County auditor for lowering the Tax Value basis on the acres of land being managed within your FMP
This took me about a year to figure out after my brother died and didn't leave any guidance on how he got EQIP $ for the farm.
I hope this helps//
Best Regards,
Stressless
The NCRS office in Each County is a Federal program executed by the states. They work the EQIP $ based on what the STATE wants the forestry lands to do - So def talk to your County Forestry agent - AND - the local NCRS officer executing the "Rack and Stack" of all the EQIP requests. Those get funded at Federal Level, then divided up by the state to the 88 County NCRS offices. The current 2015-2020 Ohio State Forestery Plan is "https://ohiodnr.gov/wps/portal/gov/odnr/discover-and-learn/safety-conservation/about-ODNR/forestry/state-forest-management/state-forests-management-plan" This is "What" they want done, and "Where" they will pull the requirements the NCRS office uses to adjudicate which EQIP request will be funded. My local NCRS officer works both Holmes and Coshocton counties (two different offices, depends on the day) I HIGHLY recommend you get what the COUNTY wants done (it's priorities are where they will fund the limited money). Note that a New 5 year plan will be coming out this spring/year - If you haven't started your efforts I would Highly suggest you wait and let this document drop, then pull the prioritized requirements from it and match the ones you want/need with your lands. This is all corroborated within your own Woodland Stewardship Management Plan developed with the local State Forester.
The NCRS Woodland Stewardship Management Plan template is located here: https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs144p2_029223.doc
Next, since we're talking Money, is the County level taxation program - called Current Agricultural Use Value (CAUV) This is an "adjunct" with the EQIP NCRS Program. The other Tax saving program in OHIO for private forestland is Ohio Forest Tax Law (OFTL).
Depending on your personal goals one of them is better than the other. Generally, "wildlife improvements" as an example, Hinge Cuts etc are not recognized as "improvements" via the NCRS->EQIP for managing Trees as 'crops' - which is how you get the CAUV tax breaks. OFTL doesn't have these restrictions. You'll need to read both programs, talk with your local forester, NCRS officer and make some decisions based on what your goals for your individual property are. Any acres not in either of these programs (I have some acres in the CAUV program, Some in OTFL) as my goal is #1 Recreational enjoyment, 2# Wildlife Management so only the acres I plan to continually do selevtive lumbing in are in CAUV, the rest are covered in OTFL which is where I do wildlife projects.
Interestingly, Jeff posted a video up this AM about Mono cultures and divestity pockets and I equate that to CAUV and OTFL. It's worth a listen.
Steps:
- Have Land with Trees and current ag land can be included but CAUV, EQIP is dedicated to forestry improvement only
- Call and setup a meeting with your local OHIO state Forestry Agent (link to them above by @at1010 )
- Create an Ohio Forestry Management Plan FMP Required Every 10 years for CAUV and is your stepping stone to capturing EQIP $.
-- Build out your FMP highlighting requirements pulled from the 2021-2025 "Ohio State Forest 5-Year Management Plan"
- Submit your FMP to the NCRS office - They need to put their thumb print on it for BOTH
-- Their internal yearly EQIP Rack and Stack for which farms get how much $ - it is very limited
-- Your County auditor for lowering the Tax Value basis on the acres of land being managed within your FMP
This took me about a year to figure out after my brother died and didn't leave any guidance on how he got EQIP $ for the farm.
I hope this helps//
Best Regards,
Stressless
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Stressless
Active Member
In the nasty WX just got my annual CAUV affidavit to the county auditor and the annual Farm Ohio Tax exempt ( STEC-B (multi-use) <- linked) form done. Then I started looking around as the farm's "Woodland Stewardship Management Plan" is due in about 18 months, required to be updated every 10 years. As I was looking around I found good site that has the -goto- lists of financial help for NCRS programs in OH - EQIP, CSP, AMA. Here's that link: https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/oh/programs/financial/
Stressless
Active Member
Filling out my annual CAUV worksheet for the county auditor today.
Since folks might look up this thread - here's the updated link to the OHIO landowner assistance for woodland stewardship and assistance programs:
ohiodnr.gov
Since folks might look up this thread - here's the updated link to the OHIO landowner assistance for woodland stewardship and assistance programs:
Landowner Assistance
If you own woods, learn how to get started, get the most out of your woods, and how to find help, no matter what your goals are.
Walking with a local consultant next Sunday, ODNR private land biologist Monday and ODNR Forester & Athens NRCS Tuesday. Looking forward to the discussions and learning
Already know I am 11mo that from application review and likely another year from state funding. Want to grab what I can without being hamstrung. Cauv and other tax credits would be nice.
Albert I would like to chat w you on your private forester.
Property Habitat Goals- learn what I can, up the wildlife value of my closed canopy 25 (with logging), deal with some sandy spot erosion and develop an approach to some aggressive invasives. Open minded to what else they present for ideas, consideration and suggestion. Super excited to see this unfold and learn more miles and inches of my ground.
Already know I am 11mo that from application review and likely another year from state funding. Want to grab what I can without being hamstrung. Cauv and other tax credits would be nice.
Albert I would like to chat w you on your private forester.
Property Habitat Goals- learn what I can, up the wildlife value of my closed canopy 25 (with logging), deal with some sandy spot erosion and develop an approach to some aggressive invasives. Open minded to what else they present for ideas, consideration and suggestion. Super excited to see this unfold and learn more miles and inches of my ground.
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Often people hear me call our property “the farm”.
It’s easy to think it’s just a recreational piece of ground and just a term used to define such. However, it is much more than that to me!
By federal classification it is a tree farm. So what does that mean? That means we take a great amount of pride and work to ensure great quality forest regeneration and timber value with a focus on maximizing wildlife habitat as well.
Over the past several years I’ve been working on removing invasives through very controlled and precise herbicide treatments. 100% a laborious process but a necessary one.
This past week my good friend Brian Scott and I worked on a ”cull” tree removal. This involved hours of running saws to open up the canopy and release many great oaks - in an 11 acre area.
Many of Ohio forests are dominated by maples, beech and other species that don’t allow our native oaks to flourish (oaks are slow growers and with the absence of fire on the landscape, we’ve seen most forestland dominated by less desirable species). Couple this with relatively high deer densities and we don’t see oak regen as we once did or that our grandparents would have noticed.
By performing a cull tree removal not only do we enhance timber value now and likely in the future. We also have greatly enhanced wildlife habitat through opening the canopy- allowing sunlight to the forest floor.
All of this can be successfully summed up by the simple sighting of woodcock last Spring and flushing ruffed grouse just last week.
I cannot promise Ohio’s forestlands will change much in this life - we have a lot of education needing done at the macro level.
However, I can promise on my farm from the trees to soils to the wildlife, I’ll always give it my absolute best to ensure conservation is a top priority.
Next time you see someone running a saw - I hope this gives you a different perspective.
It’s easy to think it’s just a recreational piece of ground and just a term used to define such. However, it is much more than that to me!
By federal classification it is a tree farm. So what does that mean? That means we take a great amount of pride and work to ensure great quality forest regeneration and timber value with a focus on maximizing wildlife habitat as well.
Over the past several years I’ve been working on removing invasives through very controlled and precise herbicide treatments. 100% a laborious process but a necessary one.
This past week my good friend Brian Scott and I worked on a ”cull” tree removal. This involved hours of running saws to open up the canopy and release many great oaks - in an 11 acre area.
Many of Ohio forests are dominated by maples, beech and other species that don’t allow our native oaks to flourish (oaks are slow growers and with the absence of fire on the landscape, we’ve seen most forestland dominated by less desirable species). Couple this with relatively high deer densities and we don’t see oak regen as we once did or that our grandparents would have noticed.
By performing a cull tree removal not only do we enhance timber value now and likely in the future. We also have greatly enhanced wildlife habitat through opening the canopy- allowing sunlight to the forest floor.
All of this can be successfully summed up by the simple sighting of woodcock last Spring and flushing ruffed grouse just last week.
I cannot promise Ohio’s forestlands will change much in this life - we have a lot of education needing done at the macro level.
However, I can promise on my farm from the trees to soils to the wildlife, I’ll always give it my absolute best to ensure conservation is a top priority.
Next time you see someone running a saw - I hope this gives you a different perspective.