Or, we could just eliminate the contest all together. If there's not enough deer (deer plural consisting of both bucks and does) then perhaps we shouldn't be promoting the killing of ANY deer.
What would be your plan?
- Thread starter Lundy
- Start date
And just for reference, we've already curtailed the importance of does in the contest once before. I don't think it's fair to remove opportunity until the DNR removes opportunity. Afterall, it's a deer hunting contest and last I checked, does are deer too. What I'm hearing from you guys is that for a deer contest, only #bucklivesmatter
What's this world coming to? lmao
What's this world coming to? lmao
Big_Holla
Senior Member
Jesse the most common reason many use to fill every tag they have is 'I need the meat'. Even those in the areas where deer numbers are low you will hear that. You were the first to throw out numbers of what it likely cost you and we all know we spend a lot more than that just to experience the hunt, let alone put meat in the freezer. I would say that the Amish are likely the only ones who spend money solely on putting meat in the freezer because they intend to fill every tag they can and buy shotgun shells when they need them. Some people spend all kinds of $$ on bait just to shoot a doe too. I understand both sides of the argument. Are people going out and shooting a doe just for a contest? I don't know, perhaps someone mentioned killing one just for points at one time. Does that mean it was their only intention? Probably not but who knows these days.
I guess getting back to the original topic of what you'd do perhaps some would like to see no does killed period and that's OK because this is all hypothetical. As far as the ODNR goes what has happened is now history and hopefully whatever happens in the future is based on sound scientific management to guarantee a viable resource for years to come. With the amount of voices calling for change in that area these days I would imagine they are starting to feel like everything they do is being watched under a microscope.
I guess getting back to the original topic of what you'd do perhaps some would like to see no does killed period and that's OK because this is all hypothetical. As far as the ODNR goes what has happened is now history and hopefully whatever happens in the future is based on sound scientific management to guarantee a viable resource for years to come. With the amount of voices calling for change in that area these days I would imagine they are starting to feel like everything they do is being watched under a microscope.
I enjoy deer hunting almost next to nothing else except the family.
I invested hard earned money into buying a farm so I wouldn't have to worry about other people messing with my deer hunting. Of course that money invest 24 years ago has increased in value 4 times and 2 pipelines going across the property basicly the farm is free to me. But if I wouldn't have pulled thr trigger 24 years ago I wouldn't be where I am now.
I'm lucky here as we seem to have a lot of deer. When I see 15 plus does at a time feeding in my food plot I see no harm in harvesting one. As far as the cost of the meat harvest I sure lost everything as I gave the whole doe to my brother who doesn't hunt. I had deer left from last year.
Expecting individual hunters to self regulate is a pipe dream. I would imagine for every hunter not shooting does to save the numbers there are 100 who will shoot every doe they see to full fill their manly ego.
Members on TOO are a cut above the average hunter. I wish this wasn't the case but it is IMHO.
The Ohio DOW is too blame as they set they laws for the population decline. Do I believe they made a mistake in doing so. NO. By saying no I don't mean it wasn't a mistake for us the hunters but they set out to lower the numbers. They wanted the deer numbers to be lower, they got the numbers lower, and now they say they will maintain the numbers by new regulations. The DOW got done exactly what they set out to do.
P.S. I forgot to mention it cost me $550 to keep the 3.0 ac food plot going this year in seed, fertilizer, diesel fuel. Not to add in the 12K of equipment over the years. That free deer I gave away cost me $260 per pound. Now I start to understand why my wife thinks I'm sorta crazy for doing it.
Hell I just love to deer hunt in my last years.
I invested hard earned money into buying a farm so I wouldn't have to worry about other people messing with my deer hunting. Of course that money invest 24 years ago has increased in value 4 times and 2 pipelines going across the property basicly the farm is free to me. But if I wouldn't have pulled thr trigger 24 years ago I wouldn't be where I am now.
I'm lucky here as we seem to have a lot of deer. When I see 15 plus does at a time feeding in my food plot I see no harm in harvesting one. As far as the cost of the meat harvest I sure lost everything as I gave the whole doe to my brother who doesn't hunt. I had deer left from last year.
Expecting individual hunters to self regulate is a pipe dream. I would imagine for every hunter not shooting does to save the numbers there are 100 who will shoot every doe they see to full fill their manly ego.
Members on TOO are a cut above the average hunter. I wish this wasn't the case but it is IMHO.
The Ohio DOW is too blame as they set they laws for the population decline. Do I believe they made a mistake in doing so. NO. By saying no I don't mean it wasn't a mistake for us the hunters but they set out to lower the numbers. They wanted the deer numbers to be lower, they got the numbers lower, and now they say they will maintain the numbers by new regulations. The DOW got done exactly what they set out to do.
P.S. I forgot to mention it cost me $550 to keep the 3.0 ac food plot going this year in seed, fertilizer, diesel fuel. Not to add in the 12K of equipment over the years. That free deer I gave away cost me $260 per pound. Now I start to understand why my wife thinks I'm sorta crazy for doing it.
Hell I just love to deer hunt in my last years.
Last edited:
Love some of the ideas you guys have posted.
In regard to shooting doe, I think if you have a property that holds a lot of doe and you want venison.. Have at it, but do it based on need.
I texted some guys on here yesterday that I was on my first ever doe mission. This property has doe out the wazoo and I have 3 kids that love venison. My freezer is almost empty from last years family harvest. So, if presented the chance, I will take a doe off this one particular property because we want deer meat.
The other two properties I hunt, I will not shoot a doe. The numbers aren't as good there. I'm also not going to a hoot a small buck just to fill the freezer. That's what a doe is for if the numbers are good for that property.
I want back straps. I want jerky. I want some ground venison. Gotta shoot something to get it.
The guys on this site aren't slaughtering doe. For the most part, I bet not many have shot more than one.
With that said, those TOO members who have shot a doe are doing it wisely. They're taking doe from areas that can support it.
One last thing, JBrown said he's happy with the current population. I don't disagree. This was one of the best seasons, on a personal level, in regard to seeing deer that I have had in quite awhile. I haven't had that many "shooters" on cam, but I also haven't been skunked too many times out there this season.
I think we are better than we have been the last few years in regard to population.
In regard to shooting doe, I think if you have a property that holds a lot of doe and you want venison.. Have at it, but do it based on need.
I texted some guys on here yesterday that I was on my first ever doe mission. This property has doe out the wazoo and I have 3 kids that love venison. My freezer is almost empty from last years family harvest. So, if presented the chance, I will take a doe off this one particular property because we want deer meat.
The other two properties I hunt, I will not shoot a doe. The numbers aren't as good there. I'm also not going to a hoot a small buck just to fill the freezer. That's what a doe is for if the numbers are good for that property.
I want back straps. I want jerky. I want some ground venison. Gotta shoot something to get it.
The guys on this site aren't slaughtering doe. For the most part, I bet not many have shot more than one.
With that said, those TOO members who have shot a doe are doing it wisely. They're taking doe from areas that can support it.
One last thing, JBrown said he's happy with the current population. I don't disagree. This was one of the best seasons, on a personal level, in regard to seeing deer that I have had in quite awhile. I haven't had that many "shooters" on cam, but I also haven't been skunked too many times out there this season.
I think we are better than we have been the last few years in regard to population.
Brian mentioned earlier he's fine with the status quo due to what the hunting used to be like decades ago. I mention perspective a lot of times because that's what forms opinions and we have a wide range of both opinions, and perspectives on this forum.
I was spoiled in that when I started hunting seriously, it was 2000 and there were deer everywhere. It was nothing to see deer at all hours any time I went out. Where I started hunting was loaded with deer. I was also a guilty party in the slaughtering of does. Too much TV and too much Kool-aid from the DOW lead me to believe we needed to kill them to make the herd healthier. I caught on in 2010 that I was on the wrong track and made some changes to how I did things. Since then, I've seen the numbers rebound at our farm and this year, was my best in 6 years in terms of deer sightings. I hit the woods 24 or 25 times and saw deer on every sit. I still think the population is down and could rebound some more. However I can't say it's what it was 3-4 years ago either. It's not great, but it's better.
I was spoiled in that when I started hunting seriously, it was 2000 and there were deer everywhere. It was nothing to see deer at all hours any time I went out. Where I started hunting was loaded with deer. I was also a guilty party in the slaughtering of does. Too much TV and too much Kool-aid from the DOW lead me to believe we needed to kill them to make the herd healthier. I caught on in 2010 that I was on the wrong track and made some changes to how I did things. Since then, I've seen the numbers rebound at our farm and this year, was my best in 6 years in terms of deer sightings. I hit the woods 24 or 25 times and saw deer on every sit. I still think the population is down and could rebound some more. However I can't say it's what it was 3-4 years ago either. It's not great, but it's better.
I counted 30 antlerless deer in the alfalfa at one of my farms a couple months ago. I see 10x more doe than bucks at that farm. One farm that borders it doesn't allow hunting, the other only gets limited gun hunting by one person. That is the reason that there are so many deer there, that's where I killed my doe this year, and I see no problem with it. I hunted for weeks looking for a doe without fawns and finally found one.
Big_Holla
Senior Member
One thing is for sure deer need to be managed. Areas where the deer numbers far outweigh the carrying capacity of the land need to be focused on to get the numbers down. I think with that frame of mind, if an area has been beyond carrying capacity for a while it means the native vegetation has likely been impacted to the point where it would take years for it to recover. Perhaps that is some of the thinking the ODNR used in some areas when the doe numbers were taken to levels that many of us consider unacceptable but in the management side of things it was necessary to give that native vegetation time to recover.
Hortontoter
Senior Member
I may not have attended college in Hocking county or anywhere else, but I am outdoor educated. I know many deer hunters will maintain the "if its brown, its down", syndrome until they are six foot under.
All I'm saying is that according to many posters here we are an "elite, knowledgeable" group of deer hunters. As we are looked at in such a manner, by our own admission, I think we should be an example. If we complain about low deer numbers why shoot the does.
Remember less than 5% of hunters shoot more than 1 deer a year according to some ones statistics. So the amount of deer the state allows really means very little if this is the case. Of course I realize the number of deer checked by hunters is probably not an accurate figure anyways.
My opinion is not popular, I'm sure, but it is what it is.
Well by that measure, consider me a dumb hillbilly if that's what I need to be to provide quality food for my family. If I'm ignorant to the situation, does that give me a free pass to shoot does?
The great thing about this site is we can feel free to express our thoughts and views and agree to disagree.
IMO, we got here(low deer numbers and having this discussion) because of "hunters as a whole" being misled by our DNR giving false numbers for whatever reason thus increasing our allotments in deer tags across the state for not just one year or two years but for multiple years back to back till the glaring results in lower and lower harvest numbers and deer sightings told us those high population estimates were NOWHERE near being that high.
IMO, Dick is correct that some hunters are also to blame if they continued to kill multiple deer over the last decade while seeing less and less deer in their areas. Call it greed,ego or just plain ignorant on their part but those are the ones who have no right in bitching and whining about low deer numbers...IMHO. As I stated earlier regarding Flutemans post on page 1 of this thread, if you don't have many deer in your area and give a shit, stop killing extra deer or does and let them bounce back! We can make a difference if we all stick together but therein lies the problem! We have too many out there that are gonna do whatever they damn well feel like and thanks to the telechek process they can get away with whatever they do even easier!
There's so many other negative factors contributing to the decline as well. Poaching still goes on,over allotment in kill permits,high yote numbers,diseases,vehicle collisions and other causes.
So yes, the ODNR deceived us but yes, many continued to whack and stack and now here we are!
For the record, I know of no one here that try's to whack a doe just for the contest. I hope that's not the fact. I like the contest the way it is and hope it continues.
Let's hope the population rebounds but it does start and end with us as hunters but it'd sure help if the ODNR would lower the limits so those that don't play by the rules have some rules to be held accountable for as well!
IMO, we got here(low deer numbers and having this discussion) because of "hunters as a whole" being misled by our DNR giving false numbers for whatever reason thus increasing our allotments in deer tags across the state for not just one year or two years but for multiple years back to back till the glaring results in lower and lower harvest numbers and deer sightings told us those high population estimates were NOWHERE near being that high.
IMO, Dick is correct that some hunters are also to blame if they continued to kill multiple deer over the last decade while seeing less and less deer in their areas. Call it greed,ego or just plain ignorant on their part but those are the ones who have no right in bitching and whining about low deer numbers...IMHO. As I stated earlier regarding Flutemans post on page 1 of this thread, if you don't have many deer in your area and give a shit, stop killing extra deer or does and let them bounce back! We can make a difference if we all stick together but therein lies the problem! We have too many out there that are gonna do whatever they damn well feel like and thanks to the telechek process they can get away with whatever they do even easier!
There's so many other negative factors contributing to the decline as well. Poaching still goes on,over allotment in kill permits,high yote numbers,diseases,vehicle collisions and other causes.
So yes, the ODNR deceived us but yes, many continued to whack and stack and now here we are!
For the record, I know of no one here that try's to whack a doe just for the contest. I hope that's not the fact. I like the contest the way it is and hope it continues.
Let's hope the population rebounds but it does start and end with us as hunters but it'd sure help if the ODNR would lower the limits so those that don't play by the rules have some rules to be held accountable for as well!
huntn2
Senior Member
Dick, not all properties are created equal. That is why one can gripe about the big picture but still pop a doe. Goes back to access. There are properties/areas that still have a very high deer density. Hunters can make an informed decision based on their observations to refrain from taking does on property A while taking a doe on property B.
To say all doe should be given a pass and most on TOO are hypocrites is like saying 1 deer management plan for the entire state is good enough or that the old A, B C zones were good enough. Reality is they are not. Part of the failure to date has been a failure to micromanage the herd in much smaller geographic areas.
For the record, this year is the first time in several years that I felt I could take a doe on our own farm and our lease both in SE Ohio but I just didn't have an opportunity yet. I still have a doe tag and hope to fill it but it'll be used in an area where I feel it will not continue to sustain low numbers or be a part of the problem.
I've eaten plenty of doe tags the last decade so what's another year gonna hurt...
I've eaten plenty of doe tags the last decade so what's another year gonna hurt...
I've said that for years. In over 20 years of hunting I've shot one doe. Ever hear me complaining about not seeing deer?
I have a family of 5 and we don't buy red meat. Am I part of the problem or do I hunt some special places?.... I love to be outside, I love hunting, I love deer meat. I love the experiences that go with hunting/the outdoors.
As of right now I'm pretty happy with the Ohio deer population in the areas "I hunt". I do think some other places need a bit of a rebound. I also don't want the places I hunt to get like other said places. So I will raise my voice when this subject comes up. We have it pretty good right now, and if we keep going in the direction we are, hunting will be something different than today's world. We built up the population before... We can maintain the one we have now, build it up, or dwindle it away. It's up to us!
At the same time, many folks hunt a couple of weeks a year and travel to do so. If ODNR is saying the limit is 3 in that area...Said hunter isn't going to feel bad for taking a doe. They also aren't going to know what the populations in that area. So they are going to rely on what the ODNR says. Yes, hunters are the trigger pullers, BUT we are guided by the ODNR.
As of right now I'm pretty happy with the Ohio deer population in the areas "I hunt". I do think some other places need a bit of a rebound. I also don't want the places I hunt to get like other said places. So I will raise my voice when this subject comes up. We have it pretty good right now, and if we keep going in the direction we are, hunting will be something different than today's world. We built up the population before... We can maintain the one we have now, build it up, or dwindle it away. It's up to us!
At the same time, many folks hunt a couple of weeks a year and travel to do so. If ODNR is saying the limit is 3 in that area...Said hunter isn't going to feel bad for taking a doe. They also aren't going to know what the populations in that area. So they are going to rely on what the ODNR says. Yes, hunters are the trigger pullers, BUT we are guided by the ODNR.
You don't eat deer, so why would you shoot them? Not to mention your hunting grounds may be better than anything any other member here has to hunt. Access to free corn can't hurt the sightings either...