Down

[Carpn]

I am still pretty young but I started deer hunting in 1990. There were a fair number of deer then but nowhere near what there's now. . Poachers, coyotes, overharvest, acorns warm weather standing corn...etc....Every yr there is a different reason why the deer season wasn't what we dreamed . I don't think I have ever once heard the hunting population as a whole ever say "wow, what a great yr." I guess what I am saying is nothing is ever perfect . All we can do is play the hand we are dealt to the best of our ability and hope for the best.

 

[Kaiser878]

It would be hard to see a measureable decline in a high deer county. Hunting in the LOWEST deer county as I often do, it is very easy to see the decline. With a strong population, observations get diluted, and it is entirely possible your areas are not in a serious decline. Let me explain my observations; ten years ago I would only kill one deer in Fayette county, this year I only killed one deer in Fayette County. Seems about the same, right? Wrong. Ten years ago I would see ten deer in a morning's hunt due to the fact I can see a mile in most directions across wide open agricultural fields. Today, I usually don't see a thing looking across those same wide open areas. Its been that way for several seasons. I didn't forget how to hunt, scout, hang stands...the deer are simply not there. It is work to see a deer, and seemingly impossible to kill one. Obviously it isn't impossible, but the time afield is not nearly as much fun as it once was. Thankfully, Fayette was moved into Zone A this year, and I hope that helps in coming years.

I believe you bock. And in low density counties I can see that. But let me ask you this. Has this changed the way u hunt you deer? U still kill your buck. So id say it has. Am I wrong for thinling this?

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

Factor in the half of the guys bowhunting shouldn't be shooting a live animal with a bow and the herd reductions largest impact is without a doubt the bowhunters, not the 2 day bonus gun, youth or MZ seasons, again they have remained fairly flat during this time period. If bowhunters report between 85,000 and 90,000 deer harvested what do you think the actual deer kill is just based upon the stories on this site and others about non recovered deer?

Good gracious. Take it from someone that bashed bow hunting for many years, argued with all those the above opinions (Kaiser, Gern, Jackalope, and Jesse - take your pick, oh and throw in a half a dozen other guys), and that's the dumbest argument I have ever heard. If you want to talk about unethical and guys that bow hunt wounding deer, fine...but to stretch it and say that guys bowhunting and wounding deer are the reason the herd is down? That's plain silly.

 

[Beentown]

I dissagree with chad. I do think ur whining. If you were concerned you would contact the dnr and be heardsitting on here and bitching on a public forum because you can't see or shoot a deer is a perfect.example of whining.

I already have written Tonk on more than one occasion. I also did his "survey".

If your having trouble try something different. If what your doing isn't working then change it and stop whining and bitching.

Show me where I am actually whining and bitching.

I get so tired of hearing about how I live in a prime area and hunt prime ground and that's the only reason why I shoot big bucks. I share ground with other people and I am getting line hunted like crazy.

Show me where I have ever said this.

There are deer there. Are your numbers down? Maybe I don't know.

Yes, you don't know so be quiet about it. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt...

But you won't listen to what I say...because people like u think they know it all and Guys like me are arrogant dicks.

Your right again but it has nothing to do with deer numbers being down.

Kaiser you are so stuck on yourself you can't even read or comprehend what someone else is saying. Hell, you don't care enough to listen to what people have to say. Your "me" complex shines through pretty stong and everyone sees it. You kill big deer :smiley_clap: My largest doesn't compare to yours. You feel better? I could give a shit. I am not a braggart. I am not a whiner. Many here know me and they know this. Ha, wish this was an actual camp fire. Prick..

I have plenty of bucks on property. The does are just gone. I was actually going to type out what I have said at least a dozen times but not going to. You probably won't read it anyway. Since this last part isn't about you.

 

[brock ratcliff]

I believe you bock. And in low density counties I can see that. But let me ask you this. Has this changed the way u hunt you deer? U still kill your buck. So id say it has. Am I wrong for thinling this?

It has not changed the way I hunt. It has only changed the amount of enjoyment I get from hunting. Killing my deer now is more like fulfilling a vision quest than enjoying being out in the woods. Going days without seeing a deer sucks! However, I know with enough seat time, I am likely to get a shot. I have started to see one upside to this whole mess though - the less than die-hard hunters seem to have quit hunting my area. I don't see trucks parked at every woodlot on Saturday mornings like I did, and I didn't have any tresspassers this year until gun season!

 

[cotty16]

It would be hard to see a measureable decline in a high deer county. Hunting in the LOWEST deer county as I often do, it is very easy to see the decline. With a strong population, observations get diluted, and it is entirely possible your areas are not in a serious decline. Let me explain my observations; ten years ago I would only kill one deer in Fayette county, this year I only killed one deer in Fayette County. Seems about the same, right? Wrong. Ten years ago I would see ten deer in a morning's hunt due to the fact I can see a mile in most directions across wide open agricultural fields. Today, I usually don't see a thing looking across those same wide open areas. Its been that way for several seasons. I didn't forget how to hunt, scout, hang stands...the deer are simply not there. It is work to see a deer, and seemingly impossible to kill one. Obviously it isn't impossible, but the time afield is not nearly as much fun as it once was. Thankfully, Fayette was moved into Zone A this year, and I hope that helps in coming years.

Brock, you beat me to exactly what I was going to post. First off, Kaiser... you act like somebody on here attacked you about the great deer you kill. If they did I missed it. Nobody said that the deer numbers are down except where Kaiser hunts. You kill great bucks and we all commend you for it. In fact, in your harvest post you got nothing but congrats from everyone. Nobody said you only got him because you have prime ground. If they did, I missed it. I'm not sure why you are hammering Beener.

Anyway... to go along with what Brock said. The same fields I have scouted since I was in high school do not have deer. I have not changed my scouting or forgot how to scout. These fields used to have 2 or 3 shooters most evenings I would scout. Now? I never even see doe. I shit you not, I went to these grounds 12 times this late summer. I saw a total of 7 deer feeding in the fields. Not one buck.

Also, from the mid 90's to 2005 it was very rare if I was skunked on stand. That was before all this new technology of scent blocker and everything else. In other words, I was a more ignorant in regards to my skills. How is it now, with being more educated, I am seeing less deer? I'm hunting the same places. These places helped me put all but one of my deer heads on the wall.

I haven't forgotten how to hunt, and if anything, I put much more time in scouting and preparing then I ever have. The population is down... bottom line.

Saying we forgot how to hunt or don't know what we are doing is ridiculous. Has a coach that won 3 super bowls forgotten how to coach if his team misses the playoffs? No... maybe the talent level of the team was down. Well, so is the population level of the deer.

 

[Beentown]

Brock, you beat me to exactly what I was going to post. First off, Kaiser... you act like somebody on here attacked you about the great deer you kill. If they did I missed it. Nobody said that the deer numbers are down except where Kaiser hunts. You kill great bucks and we all commend you for it. In fact, in your harvest post you got nothing but congrats from everyone. Nobody said you only got him because you have prime ground. If they did, I missed it. I'm not sure why you are hammering Beener.

Anyway... to go along with what Brock said. The same fields I have scouted since I was in high school do not have deer. I have not changed my scouting or forgot how to scout. These fields used to have 2 or 3 shooters most evenings I would scout. Now? I never even see doe. I shit you not, I went to these grounds 12 times this late summer. I saw a total of 7 deer feeding in the fields. Not one buck.

Also, from the mid 90's to 2005 it was very rare if I was skunked on stand. That was before all this new technology of scent blocker and everything else. In other words, I was a more ignorant in regards to my skills. How is it now, with being more educated, I am seeing less deer? I'm hunting the same places. These places helped me put all but one of my deer heads on the wall.

I haven't forgotten how to hunt, and if anything, I put much more time in scouting and preparing then I ever have. The population is down... bottom line.

Saying we forgot how to hunt or don't know what we are doing is ridiculous. Has a coach that won 3 super bowls forgotten how to coach if his team misses the playoffs? No... maybe the talent level of the team was down. Well, so is the population level of the deer.

Must feel guilty about something? Awefully defensive...

 

[Jackalope]

I dissagree with chad. I do think ur whining. If you were concerned you would contact the dnr and be heardsitting on here and bitching on a public forum because you can't see or shoot a deer is a perfect.example of whining. If your having trouble try something different. If what your doing isn't working then change it and stop whining and bitching.

I get so tired of hearing about how I live in a prime area and hunt prime ground and that's the only reason why I shoot big bucks. I share ground with other people and I am getting line hunted like crazy. Yet these other people are not killing these bucks. Why is that? Me and my.buddy are the only ones who consistently kill big bucks in our town
And I bragging? No.but I won't sit here and listen to people blow off about why I kill big bucks or why chad kills big bucks and they don't. then try to use the excuse that we are only successful because we are hunting in places that are prime and overrun with huge bucks. You couldn't be more wrong ..but what I am saying is this. There are deer there. Are your numbers down? Maybe I don't know. I personally don't give a shit. Adapt to your surroundings and hunt and stop bitching. But you won't listen to what I say...because people like u think they know it all and Guys like me are arrogant dicks. I have a feeling if you were not bitching about deer numbers it would be something else.

I shot a big one this year.. And i will tell you right now it was 95% Property..... Period.... I find it amazing how I can hunt Vinton county for 5 years like a crackhead spending hundreds and hundreds of hours on a stand and never even tag a P&Y deer.... Yet I spend 129 hours on a stand in Champagne county and have a deer in the 130's, 140's and 150's all in bow range and end up shooting one that was in the 160's.... I passed on deer you yourself said you would have shot.. property. property, property.... Period. Just like you, there are other people hunting these properties... The don't shoot big ones, same as the people that hunt yours.. Sure I hunt smarter then them.. But that's them..... You, Me, JD, Gern, or any of the others that have tagged a big one this year, aren't better hunters than a single person here... We just hunt better properties, that doesn't make you or us some super smart Mr. Whitetail. You can't kill what's not there, doesn't make the person who hunts there any less smarter than you........ . I guarantee you that if you took one guy from here and put them on your property 99% of the guys on this board would drag a big one out... Don't believe that? I'm living proof of it! JD took me out of Vinton and put me on one of his so/so properties.. 130, 140, and one 150 in bow range before the rut! Take it from a guy who's hunted both ends of the spectrum bud... I ain't shit, You ain't shit, Jd ain't shit, Gern ain't shit..... What we ARE is lucky to hunt property that IS the shit...

 

[Carpn]

I personally have seen a large increase in archery hunters in recent yrs, and this is not just in one region . I have hunted in 5 or 6 counties the last 5 or more yrs and its been the same everywhere for me....Including a large increase in out of staters.

 

[Beentown]

It has not changed the way I hunt. It has only changed the amount of enjoyment I get from hunting. Killing my deer now is more like fulfilling a vision quest than enjoying being out in the woods. Going days without seeing a deer sucks! However, I know with enough seat time, I am likely to get a shot. I have started to see one upside to this whole mess though - the less than die-hard hunters seem to have quit hunting my area. I don't see trucks parked at every woodlot on Saturday mornings like I did, and I didn't have any tresspassers this year until gun season![/QUOTE]

Yep and especially yep to the bolded part.

 

[Lundy]

Good gracious. Take it from someone that bashed bow hunting for many years, argued with all those the above opinions (Kaiser, Gern, Jackalope, and Jesse - take your pick, oh and throw in a half a dozen other guys), and that's the dumbest argument I have ever heard. If you want to talk about unethical and guys that bow hunt wounding deer, fine...but to stretch it and say that guys bowhunting and wounding deer are the reason the herd is down? That's plain silly.

You missed the point.

I am not sure that there is a herd decline, but if there is one there is only one segment of the hunting methods than has increased it's kill and participation during the high populations of 2006 to today.

The majority seem to want to blame extra permits and bonus gun seasons, damage permits, gun harvests in general. My point was IF there really is a decline they may be other areas better suited to examine than those reasons previously offered.

 

[Beentown]

You missed the point.

I am not sure that there is a herd decline, but if there is one there is only one segment of the hunting methods than has increased it's kill and participation during the high populations of 2006 to today.

The majority seem to want to blame extra permits and bonus gun seasons, damage permits, gun harvests in general. My point was IF there really is a decline they may be other areas better suited to examine than those reasons previously offered.

I get that. It all needs examined. Not much you can do about people making bad shots. We would need to focus on stuff that can be fixed. Like getting rid of the extra gun season, less liberal bag limits, etc... I don't think less tags available are going to change much. But what it would do is show someone is listening.

 

[Milo]

I believe you bock. And in low density counties I can see that. But let me ask you this. Has this changed the way u hunt you deer? U still kill your buck. So id say it has. Am I wrong for thinling this?

this comment bothers the shit outta me. what the hell does getting your buck have to do with deer population numbers? I will gladly go out on a limb and say the buck to doe ratio in ohio is 1 to 3 easily. were talking about the entire herd not just bucks. What i do know is i have not heard this few shots in a LONG time where i hunt. And its for dam sure not because they are becoming better shots.

 

[Gern186]

I shot a big one this year.. And i will tell you right now it was 95% Property..... Period.... I find it amazing how I can hunt Vinton county for 5 years like a crackhead spending hundreds and hundreds of hours on a stand and never even tag a P&Y deer.... Yet I spend 129 hours on a stand in Champagne county and have a deer in the 130's, 140's and 150's all in bow range and end up shooting one that was in the 160's.... I passed on deer you yourself said you would have shot.. property. property, property.... Period. Just like you, there are other people hunting these properties... The don't shoot big ones, same as the people that hunt yours.. Sure I hunt smarter then them.. But that's them..... You, Me, JD, Gern, or any of the others that have tagged a big one this year, aren't better hunters than a single person here... We just hunt better properties, that doesn't make you or us some super smart Mr. Whitetail. You can't kill what's not there, doesn't make the person who hunts there any less smarter than you........ . I guarantee you that if you took one guy from here and put them on your property 99% of the guys on this board would drag a big one out... Don't believe that? I'm living proof of it! JD took me out of Vinton and put me on one of his so/so properties.. 130, 140, and one 150 in bow range before the rut! Take it from a guy who's hunted both ends of the spectrum bud... I ain't shit, You ain't shit, Jd ain't shit, Gern ain't shit..... What we ARE is lucky to hunt property that IS the shit...

I will agree with you to some extent on this Joe, but only after you kill a quality buck several years in a row.......Kill 8 or 10 wallhangers in the next dozen years and then get back to me.

 

[brock ratcliff]

You missed the point.

I am not sure that there is a herd decline, but if there is one there is only one segment of the hunting methods than has increased it's kill and participation during the high populations of 2006 to today.

The majority seem to want to blame extra permits and bonus gun seasons, damage permits, gun harvests in general. My point was IF there really is a decline they may be other areas better suited to examine than those reasons previously offered.

I agree that it is at least a contributing factor. I told Joe the very same thing on the phone the other night. It is the ugly truth. I would venture to guess there is probably as high as a 50 percent loss in archery hunting. Granted, many of the un-recovered do not die, but many do! This is one reason I wanted the OBA to accept crossbows several years ago. The thought being to build the OBA into an organization actually strong enough to lobby for mandatory bowhunter ed in Ohio. I was very lucky as a bow to have excellent mentors, many aren't so lucky. I've lost deer, and I know what I'm doing. I hate to think how many are lost by those not so fortunate to have good guidance when getting started!

 

[cotty16]

I got interested in hunting at a young age by going with my dad and actually seeing deer. Now I'm trying to get my own kids interested and it's tough when we sit for hours each time and see nothing.

The extra seasons and extra tags need re-examined. Hard evidence of numbers need examined. No excuses like weather, acorns, etc... Every gun week has a few days of bad weather. Show us numbers from the last 20 years.

 

[brock ratcliff]

this comment bothers the shit outta me. what the hell does getting your buck have to do with deer population numbers? I will gladly go out on a limb and say the buck to doe ratio in ohio is 1 to 3 easily. were talking about the entire herd not just bucks. What i do know is i have not heard this few shots in a LONG time where i hunt. And its for dam sure not because they are becoming better shots.

We actually have more bucks than does in my area now... Like you, I have never heard so few shots during gun season.

 

[Jackalope]

You missed the point.

I am not sure that there is a herd decline, but if there is one there is only one segment of the hunting methods than has increased it's kill and participation during the high populations of 2006 to today.

The majority seem to want to blame extra permits and bonus gun seasons, damage permits, gun harvests in general. My point was IF there really is a decline they may be other areas better suited to examine than those reasons previously offered.

You're crazy if you don't believe there is a decline in deer numbers over the last 4 years..... All of this isn't a figment of peoples imagination.. All of these people from all over the state didn't suddently forget how to deer hunt or fail to adapt... Most of us still kill the same number of deer we did in years past... However we know what we've seen from the stand... We know what it takes to kill those deer today compared to years past... There are considerably less deer than 4 years ago.. 4 years ago when Brock and I brought up that we we're seeing a decline, we we're basically laughed off the board by 99% of the people out there.. Last year it was even still about a 50/50 mix.. This year it looks like there are about 2 people... I see people today "bitching" as some put it.. The same people that just 2 years ago we're calling us fugging crazy... I see people who we're just like you are now, who are screaming today... I'll tell you like I told them man.... If you don't think there's a decline that's great, I'm happy you're still hunting an area with good deer numbers. But I'll leave you with this the same as I told them two years ago and last year, Enjoy it while you have it, because you'll feel this pain soon enough..

 

[Beentown]

this comment bothers the shit outta me. what the hell does getting your buck have to do with deer population numbers? I will gladly go out on a limb and say the buck to doe ratio in ohio is 1 to 3 easily. were talking about the entire herd not just bucks. What i do know is i have not heard this few shots in a LONG time where i hunt. And its for dam sure not because they are becoming better shots.

Yep, one property I hunt (400 acres) I have pics or video of 13 different bucks (before Oct 31st). Two pics of does in the exact same camera sights. I would be willing to bet that low density counties/areas have a buck to doe ratio that is way past 1 to 3.

 

[bowhunter1023]

I am looking at future seasons when I might have a child to take hunting and the burning question is: "Will it be worth it?" If as I continue to develop as a hunter, I continue to have worse and worse seasons due to factors which most certainly include declining deer numbers, how miserable will the hunting be in Washington County when I do have kids?!?

I did a little digging and it is interesting that there is a discrepancy in the DNR's number for Washington County. With the current numbers, we were down 13% in 2011. However according to the press release from last season, where it was claimed we killed 2,935 and not 2,555 like the current release reads, we are down 24%!!! Why the difference in numbes Tonk? Was there ever a release to explain that? Using the number provided in the 2010 release (2,935), we were down 18% in 2010. But if the "real" number was the 2,555 provided in the current release, then we were down 29% last year!!! These are just gun season numbers and it scares the hell out of what it means for the future of hunting here in Washington County. Also keep in mind that we are the largest land mass county in the state. We should have a shit ton of deer right? After all, we have more ground than anyone else. So why are we seeing the declines we are seeing? I can promise you the blue tongue we had 3-4 years ago is part of that decline and that the powers that be in the DNR never bothered to consider that when allowing us to continue whacking and stacking deer. It is just one more reason I am screaming for a micro-manage approach with GW's that take an actual interest in the deer herd within their jurisdictions...

Being 100% honest, if you don't hunt in Washington County and you don't have the real time data to argue with me on a micro level, then I have no real use for your argument as to why I suck as a hunter because I'm lazy and blah, blah, blah. I'm far from lazy and I can't really argue that I don't suck as a hunter. But I have faith in myself and in the ground I hunt. I have 5 years of detailed logs to look back on, ones that cover nearly 1,000 hours on stand. I know what I see happening in my county. I don't need a wildlife biology degree, nor do I have to be the next Kaiser or Gern to know that our deer herd is getting POUNDED down here. I've made it a point the past few years to talk to taxidermists, processors, check stations, and hunters alike about what they are seeing. The talk is overwhelmingly negative. Talk of coyotes is a constant, as is the claim that "we just don't see deer in the fields like we used to". Not to mention most every hunter I talk to agrees we are killing TOO many deer. That brings up one other point to close things up...

I'd love to see how many deer are killed by WV hunters here in Washington County. Each season, more and more trucks roll in to our county from WV and with them, comes a large percentage of hunters who subscribe to the "brown and down" philosophy. I am of the opinion that a decent (10-20%) of our annual harvest goes across the river after it is killed. I've been screaming for an increase in NR license and tags for years because I feel we under value our resources in comparison to states with similar "trophy" hunting opportunities. It's just one more small piece to the puzzle that would help us avoid this slippery slope we're on. And it is one more thing that could better be addressed with a more micro-managed focused DNR. This statewide thing is far from being in the best interest of the true constituents of the DNR...