Open house meet-greet

[hickslawns]

I attended in Findlay with Bowhunter57. I felt as if I was talking to a room full of bobbleheads. It was like "Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah, uh-huh" and you knew as soon as you left they were thinking to themselves "Only three hours of listening to the same complaint. I can do it." Don't get me wrong, these guys were cordial. They had smiles on their faces. They had answers. In fact, they had answers for EVERYTHING. It really didn't matter how you presented the questions, the answers were a broken record.

Some of the questions I presented:

"How are population estimates determined?"
A: DVA numbers. Land owner attitude surveys. With the common goals of the DNR in mind.
"Are you aware of the studies performed by University of Purdue in last couple years in regards to coon damage?"
A: they would change the subject and discuss the fine balance between hunters, farmers, and trappers. One guy said they had to consider the needs of the furtrappers and leave enough for them to harvest when the fur was prime. Another guy said land owners have every opportunity to kill as many raccoon as they wanted to so the coon couldn't possibly be giving them problems. Has to be the deer. The farmers are already killing as many as they want. lol

I am not going to type anymore. I will just let anyone know that was unable to attend: YOU SAVED YOURSELF A WASTED SATURDAY AFTERNOON! One thing that was reiterated to me was the fact "This open house is nothing more than an open house. We will not put anymore weight on your opinions voiced at the open house than if you were to call or email us during he week."

With that said, I guess if you want to hear all the predetermined agendas of the ODNR, feel free to contact them at their offices next week. Contact them last week. Doesn't sound like it would matter. They are going to listen and they are going to go ahead with their agendas. Pretty sad.

Proposed changes: Madison county dropped to Zone A.
Counties to be moved from Zone A to Zone B: Auglaize, Darke, Mercer, Miami, Montgomery, Preble, and Shelby

 

[Milo]

I may be going this route also Hicks as well and encouraging everyone to send an email and request a response from ODNR. that way you know they have read it and logged it. it was nice to meet some new people but I'm not short on friends so definitely use what ever means you feel you need to...

 

[brock ratcliff]

I recalll how easily Darke County was wiped out in the 90's (96 I think), by adding an extra tag for a year or two. I feel bad for them, as I know what is about to happen to their herd.

 

[brock ratcliff]

Too bad those that attended did so where Tonk was not... Did Jesse make it to D4?

 

[Milo]

i tried to call him earlier brock so i am not sure...he did not answer.

 

[Milo]

I will say this about the meeting, I never fully expected then to tell me I'm right on the deer issue. What I didn't expect was the quick beat down of we didn't want to hear it. There was an answer to everything and the excuse of well maybe that area has reached the allotted amount of pressure that makes the localized herd seem gone...To which i responded " you mean the entire stretch of I-70 from hebron to zanesville? Localized? that like 25 miles..."

 

[hickslawns]

One amusing little bit about my chat. There was an older lady standing there listening and commenting. i would guess her to be in her seventies. She was trying to tell me the weather had to do with the decreased harvests. She was complaining about the hunters not doing their job. Said she had to run about 30 of them out of her fields that were driving the deer. She only allows 2 hunters at a time and they have to sign in/out so the others know when someone is hunting. While I appreciate the fact she DOES allow hunters some access, it was a bit frustrating to be interrupted by an older lady telling me the weather is the reason I was not seeing deer. She said the deer just don't move in bad weather. She specifically said they couldn't get wet in the rain or they got sick. Claims their mortality rates show they can get sick and die when the weather is bad. I asked her very nicely "Ma'am, that is some very interesting information. I would LOOOOOVE to see the data facts providing this information. I certainly have never known a deer yet to have a barn to come in and escape the rain. I think it would be very informative if you would let me know where I could find these facts about deer dieing because they were left out in the rain." At this point, her husband grabbed her arm and said it was time to go. Poor lady. I was raised to respect my elders, but I couldn't sit there and listen to absolute garbage. I had already waited 45min to an hour to speak with "the guy in the tie."

 

[hickslawns]

I will say this about the meeting, I never fully expected then to tell me I'm right on the deer issue. What I didn't expect was the quick beat down of we didn't want to hear it. There was an answer to everything and the excuse

I agree Milo. I wasn't expecting to hear them totally agree and tell me they were working on any specific solution. What surprised me was the absolute denial and excuse no matter what the question presented was. There was also the mention of "We have not reached our goals yet". that one bothered me. I asked him again how they could ever determine the goals if they don't ever know what the population was. They claimed they use the same statistics and data that every other state uses. These methods have been accurate for years, so they must still be accurate is what I was told. I was happy to hear them mention Michigan and make it known we will never be more than a one buck state. They mentioned antler restrictions in PA and said this wouldn't happen either.

Memory is warming up here: One of the other factors used to determine harvest limits was the buck per square mile harvested data. Huh? Some statistic about number of bucks harvested per square mile is supposedly figured into the harvest limit proposals. I might have this info screwed up a bit as it was not explained real well. Didn't make sense to me the way it was described.

 

[brock ratcliff]

Interesting. I would have thought these folks would have been versed in answers to the questions they should have known would be asked. Maybe the onlly answer they have is "I dont know", and that is not one to give in a public venue when many are already questioning the tactics.

 

[hickslawns]

The guy I talked to was named John Daughtery. Darty? Not sure how to spell it. Nice guy. Wanted to talk hunting stories about his youth in Ashtabula county and his 155acres he has now in Guernsey i believe is what he told me. He wanted to refer me to the biologist awaiting questions. I DID end up talking to the biologist as well. Both of them mentioned antler base measurements of 1.5yr old deer which have been decreasing. They also mentioned reproduction rates which the local WO are out checking right now when there is a DVA. This is how they were determining reproduction rates.

Another interesting fact was age structure of herd determined by deer at check in stations and DVA info. ???

 

[Jackalope]

It was pretty obvious to me there was a memo agenda put out prior to the open house regarding any questions asked about herd numbers. I spent 2.5 hours listening to person after person talk to officer bill. And 2.5 hours of bill talking AT them from the script. Which is fine and what I expected. I felt no need to talk to a fencepost, i really went to gauge the reaction, passion, and opinions of the other hunters. Since bill was the designated talking head on the subject, it made my job very easy.

I knew it was a dog and pony before I attended. It's the illusion of caring. And on some subjects they might care as evident by their asking return questions, attentiveness and willingness to listen, but mention deer numbers and expect to get a lecture in a condescending tone.

The open house is not a medium for change, just as I said.. Its evident now more than ever that change must be forced through a collaborate and unified upheaval. And as long as hunters remain unorganized the dnr can talk down to them as individuals and make them feel like 1 against a green army. Don't worry though, I'm gonna bring it and continue to bring it.

 

[Lundy]

Interesting. I would have thought these folks would have been versed in answers to the questions they should have known would be asked. Maybe the onlly answer they have is "I dont know", and that is not one to give in a public venue when many are already questioning the tactics.

I was there for about an hr and talked to he fisheries guys the most, did listen to Bill talk to one person and got to speak one of the GW's out in the hall for a little while about the deer proposals and populations. I really never heard the "I don't know" answer. They seemed pretty clear on their positions, but I didn't listen to many of the deer conversations

Much higher attendance than in years past.

Jackalope, I wish I had know you were there I would have like to have met you.

 

[hickslawns]

Its evident now more than ever that change must be forced through a collaborate and unified upheaval. And as long as hunters remain unorganized the dnr can talk down to them as individuals and make them feel like 1 against a green army. Don't worry though, I'm gonna bring it and continue to bring it.

Memory light bulb just flicked on for me. One of the hunters I talked to after the open house said he mentioned unifying and organizing in an effort to be heard. He told me the smile left this guy's face quicker than the deer were disappearing. He told me the official he was speaking to had an about face in the conversation. The official was not at all pleased with this suggestion for the hunters. It brought a smile to my face and I asked him if he had ever heard of TOO. He said no, so i walked to my truck, handed him a Hank Tucker Outdoors business card with the TOO website written out on the back. I will follow up with him in September. He is a regular customer of ours for tree stands. Gotta love the power of TOO!

 

[Schu72]

Memory light bulb just flicked on for me. One of the hunters I talked to after the open house said he mentioned unifying and organizing in an effort to be heard. He told me the smile left this guy's face quicker than the deer were disappearing. He told me the official he was speaking to had an about face in the conversation. The official was not at all pleased with this suggestion for the hunters. It brought a smile to my face and I asked him if he had ever heard of TOO. He said no, so i walked to my truck, handed him a Hank Tucker Outdoors business card with the TOO website written out on the back. I will follow up with him in September. He is a regular customer of ours for tree stands. Gotta love the power of TOO!

I wore my TOO gear to the open house.

 

[RedCloud]

I kind of figured they would shy away from anything mentioned about deer. Everytime I hear of people going to the open houses they all have the same story " I never got to talk " or " they just sat there like a bump on a log and never answered my questions "

Hicks,

After I got done talking to you this morning I got to thinking that the others who I know that have attended in years past had said the Open House was a bunch of BS and the DOW pretty much just came in and said what they was " Planing " (what they was GOING to do ) and that was pretty much all the time the DOW had. Pretty much closed it down after they had TOLD the people the plan and that was it.

I think Joe had the right idea of just being in the background and listening to others and making contact with them and listening to them. Awareness is power and the ODNR is not wanting to acknowledge hunters who are asking the hard questions. It's not that they are not hearing us but rather they are doing what they are TOLD to do. Who the puppet master pulling the strings is has to be brought to the light IMO.

It's the ONLY way things are going to change.

 

[Jackalope]

I was there for about an hr and talked to he fisheries guys the most, did listen to Bill talk to one person and got to speak one of the GW's out in the hall for a little while about the deer proposals and populations. I really never heard the "I don't know" answer. They seemed pretty clear on their positions, but I didn't listen to many of the deer conversations

Much higher attendance than in years past.

Jackalope, I wish I had know you were there I would have like to have met you.

Yeah. I was wearing a black jacket and probably had my shades on top of my head.

I never once heard them or bill say "I don't know" either and yes they were pretty clear on their position. He said many many times "ae have not reached out goal".. To some guy wanting to ask about lower deer numbers seen. Thats like saying.. "oh yeah, well we aren't done yet so shut up"".. Like I was saying, for all the other topics they were very inquisitive, attentive, and listening, and even offered insight. Start talking about lower deer numbers with bill who was apparently the designated go to guy on the subject and the mood changed instantly. Instead of caring, listening, and being inquisitive. It became abrupt, to the point, And almost dictatingly brash. It was like a lightswitch flipped. You're right, they were very clear on their position about deer, so clear in fact it was like they brow beat anyone with said position if they brought it up.. And if they kept talking after being accosted the broken record of their position just started over. This time a little more direct. For everything else they were nice as can be. Smiles, laughing, sharing stories, and listening. Mention lower deer numbers and it was a whole other ball game.

 

[Curran]

It's the illusion of caring. And on some subjects they might care as evident by their asking return questions, attentiveness and willingness to listen, but mention deer numbers and expect to get a lecture in a condescending tone.

That's exactly it. Perfectly said. Not once was there a returned question when we brought up anything deer number related. Not once. The switch was flipped and it was time to go to the script.... that's what was disappointing, yet at the same time expected. I guess it's good to go and see the truth first hand.

The open house is not a medium for change, just as I said.. Its evident now more than ever that change must be forced through a collaborate and unified upheaval. And as long as hunters remain unorganized the dnr can talk down to them as individuals and make them feel like 1 against a green army. Don't worry though, I'm gonna bring it and continue to bring it.

The damage has been done, and will continue to be done, until deer hunters can come together in an educated and organized manner. Then the voice will have to be heard.

 

[hickslawns]

Yep. Turkeys, coyotes or anything else and it was quite enjoyable conversation. Even the deer conversation in Findlay was cordial. It just didn't feel very receptive. Listen to what you have to say, regurgitate what they had already told you.

Attendance I can't speak for. First time I have ever attended an open house. It did not seem like many people filtered through. If I had to estimate, I would say 60-70 people. There were 2 pages of sign in sheets filled out and maybe a handful of signatures on the third page. Yes, I took notice to the sign in sheets on my way out. Couldn't help it. There was a desk set up to pass through what amounted to a cattle gate. . . AFTER you signed in. Desk was across the hallway narrowing the passage from the main doors into the room with the WO awaiting your questions.

 

[Ohiosam]

They knew every argument you guys had before you got there. Responses were preplanned.

 

[hickslawns]

They knew every argument you guys had before you got there. Responses were preplanned.

Hope you didn't attend Sam. They threw the farmers under the bus. I asked about coon damage. They said farmers can kill all the coons they want. Coons not the problem. Problem are the deer. I asked about damage permits. He said those are up to the farmers. Claimed 80% of damage permits are never filled. Claimed the farmers use permits as an excuse as to why they don't allow hunters then never fill them. When asked if they were pacifying the farmers and insurance companies they pointed at the farmers. Claimed insurance companies don't care. Said they occasionally get calls from the motorists hitting deer, but insurance companies just pass the costs onto their customers and really don't care. They said the only ones complaining about too many deer are the farmers. They redirected all complaints about not seeing deer at the farmers in the meeting I attended. It was less than impressive. I only saw one person there who seemed to be concerned about their farm. That was the older lady that seemed a little bit off.