Open house meet-greet

[huntn2]

And was this something they had not factored into the equation, at least to the degree it perhaps should have been?

The regs that end up getting proposed/approved for this coming season should tell us if the ODNR has historically factored coyote predation to the extent as Rex said, "Condensed...they're eating a lot of deer." If no adjustments are made to scale any counties back, then the "...they're eating a lot of deer." is either on par with what was forecasted or the increase insn't sufficient enough to warrant a change from the management strategy.

 

[huntn2]

No...we get it loud and clear. They want less deer...alot less deer. Eventhough they don't know how many we have.

Exactly!!!

It goes back to my earlier post....make it transparent. The ODNR needs to show by county what the population is and what the target is that their management strategy is working towards. They should be crystal clear and up front with what variables are leveraged and what those variables mean. They should define what KPI's are being measured and reviewed to support and show progress towards achieving their goal. When new information such as the latest and greatest coyote info that Tonk learned last week is made available, they should release what the studies have found, how it relates to and or impacts their strategy and regulations, etc.

If they can't produce the statistical information and facts to support their mission, then how can they expect us to take it as gospel and work to aid them in realizing their strategy?

 

[Milo]

Has anyone considered the law of unintended consequence or maybe even Newton’s 3rd law of motion as they might relate to this debate?

yes, they started it

 

[Ohiosam]

Has anyone considered the law of unintended consequence or maybe even Newton


Dang it!! I sent message from my phone and it disappeared except for the above quote. Can't remember what I wrote but I'm sure it was profound.

 

[bluedog]

I know at District 3 there were graphs that had data on them from about the last 10 years (?). There was one graph for each county in the district. Each graph had three lines on it. One was the population goal (a straight line). One was hunter harvest. And one was estimated deer population (Preharvest I think?). Anyway, all counties were above the population goal, but there were a few counties that were getting close to goal. My county (Ashtabula) was still quite a bit above goal and I guess I would have to agree because there are still lots of deer around here.

Lundy has really hit the nail on the head when he said that deer hunter complaints are currently at a whimper. With all the complaining on the internet forums, I went to the meeting just to see how many would show up to complain about deer numbers. The answer was: not many. There were quite a few comments on the board about supporting the early anterless ML season and wanting to expand the use of the $15 tags. I saw a few comments about reducing the doe harvest in a few counties. The guy at the front desk said about 94 people showed up yesterday. He said that is a very typical number as they usually figure about 100 people would show up. What that tells me is that either the only a very small percentage of hunters see a problem with deer numbers or if they think there is a problem, they don't care enough to complain. And I am not talking about signing a letter or petition. I'm talking about getting up off the couch and making a show. I personally don't have a problem with what the division is doing to the deer herd, but all I can think about is what a wonderful opportunity was missed yesterday. Could you imagine the impact if instead of the usual 100 people showed up, 1000 people showed up? Or 2000? What if there was a line to park and to get in the door. Now THAT would have made a statement. So we are back to either not enough people think there is a problem or not enough people are bothered enough to take action.

For all who went and thought it was a waste of time, don't think that. You did the right thing. You cannot control what your fellow hunters do. You can only control what you do. By showing up yesterday, you showed that you were concerned enough to take a stand and to try and make a difference. Being a good role model is commendable and if there is enough concern, the movement will grow. Heck, maybe one day in the future I will even think deer numbers are low and join you. *grin*

Oh and I went to push for a later start and a later end to turkey season because I am sick of hunting turkeys in the snow in the THIRD week of the season. I'm not goint to get what I want, but I won't quit trying and who knows, maybe someday.................... (Maybe someday I will actually get to use my Thermacell during turkey season. *dreaming* )

 

[RedCloud]

I know at District 3 there were graphs that had data on them from about the last 10 years (?). There was one graph for each county in the district. Each graph had three lines on it. One was the population goal (a straight line). One was hunter harvest. And one was estimated deer population (Preharvest I think?). Anyway, all counties were above the population goal, but there were a few counties that were getting close to goal. My county (Ashtabula) was still quite a bit above goal and I guess I would have to agree because there are still lots of deer around here.

Lundy has really hit the nail on the head when he said that deer hunter complaints are currently at a whimper. With all the complaining on the internet forums, I went to the meeting just to see how many would show up to complain about deer numbers. The answer was: not many. There were quite a few comments on the board about supporting the early anterless ML season and wanting to expand the use of the $15 tags. I saw a few comments about reducing the doe harvest in a few counties. The guy at the front desk said about 94 people showed up yesterday. He said that is a very typical number as they usually figure about 100 people would show up. What that tells me is that either the only a very small percentage of hunters see a problem with deer numbers or if they think there is a problem, they don't care enough to complain. And I am not talking about signing a letter or petition. I'm talking about getting up off the couch and making a show. I personally don't have a problem with what the division is doing to the deer herd, but all I can think about is what a wonderful opportunity was missed yesterday. Could you imagine the impact if instead of the usual 100 people showed up, 1000 people showed up? Or 2000? What if there was a line to park and to get in the door. Now THAT would have made a statement. So we are back to either not enough people think there is a problem or not enough people are bothered enough to take action.

For all who went and thought it was a waste of time, don't think that. You did the right thing. You cannot control what your fellow hunters do. You can only control what you do. By showing up yesterday, you showed that you were concerned enough to take a stand and to try and make a difference. Being a good role model is commendable and if there is enough concern, the movement will grow. Heck, maybe one day in the future I will even think deer numbers are low and join you. *grin*

Oh and I went to push for a later start and a later end to turkey season because I am sick of hunting turkeys in the snow in the THIRD week of the season. I'm not goint to get what I want, but I won't quit trying and who knows, maybe someday.................... (Maybe someday I will actually get to use my Thermacell during turkey season. *dreaming* )

I had to work or I would have at least went to hear all the people getting pushed into a corner and swept under the rug any and everytime anything about deer was mentioned. I know more then a few hunters that stopped going to meetings because of this and sick of being told the same thing every year.

Ever think that's why more people don't bother to go to the open house ? They already know they are talking to a wall. The DOW already has a plan of action for the upcoming season and nothing short of a huge opposition in one place at one time asking sound questions backed with factual information is going to make them stop and think and change anything. NO open house is going to make this happen when they limit the amount of people in attendance. You really think if 1000 people showed up they would allow them all into a room with a seating capacity of 100 ? They see that many people show up and the doors will be closed as fast as you can say the word DEER.

 

[Lundy]

. You really think if 1000 people showed up they would allow them all into a room with a seating capacity of 100 ? They see that many people show up and the doors will be closed as fast as you can say the word DEER.

Exactly the point. There are not enough concerned hunters to even make them care if the door is opened or closed.

If YOU MAKE them close the door you are actually for the first time starting to be heard by someone other than some faceless disgruntled guy at his keyboard.

If I am confronted by a pissed off poodle I'm not very concerned.

 

[Jackalope]

Exactly the point. There are not enough concerned hunters to even make them care if the door is opened or closed.

If YOU MAKE them close the door you are actually for the first time starting to be heard by someone other than some faceless disgruntled guy at his keyboard.

If I am confronted by a pissed off poodle I'm not very concerned.

Nothing will ever be resolved at an odnr open house no matter If you bring 10 or 1000.. Does the DNC get the best of the GOP by going to their convention.. Nope its done in the public spotlight. Its the difference between asking someone for an answer or making them answer.. Like making charts and graphs for an OBBC meeting because you know you're going to get asked. Or writing press releases for the dispatch specifically because of this issue heating up . In two months this issue has obviously already grown to be a thorn I their side. In time, it will be a spear. I'm not done by a long shot..

And for those who don't believe it, all I have to say is Lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way.

 

[huntn2]

Lack of awareness could be a reason for why an individual doesn't speak up (email, call or attend an open house).

How many of the hunters out there have never come across a hunting forum to talk to others outside their immediate circle of family, friends or community? The only thing these folks would see is ODNR press releases if that. Therefore, the see the herd number has continued to rise or remain flat year over year. As a result, if they feel they are seeing less deer, they would chalk it up as a fluke or something else unique to them. Afterall, the state says the number is up and increases to tags and opportunity would typically reflect the state chassing an increasing herd...I would venture to guess, the general hunter out there isn't analyzing DVA's and harvest statistics year over year by county to try and better understand what it is they are experiencing...

 

[Ohiosam]

How many of the hunters out there have never come across a hunting forum to talk to others outside their immediate circle of family, friends or community?

The only friends and acquaintances that I have that regularly visit hunting forums are the friends I have made on forums. And I know a LOT of hunters/shooters.

 

[Beentown]

I talked to 10 hunters today at the Cracker Barrel and 6 said deer sightings were way down and the other 3 bitched about their land getting leased up around them. 1 called the other 8 he was with a bunch of girls and to find other places to hunt....then the others immediately started giving him shit because his land is like shooting fish in a barrel (from what I could hear it was the only woods near an urban area....hamilton road).

I had to laugh a bit as I could still hear them bickering 20 minutes later while we ate.

 

[Curran]

The only friends and acquaintances that I have that regularly visit hunting forums are the friends I have made on forums. And I know a LOT of hunters/shooters.

Same here Sam... in fact some of my best hunting buddies rarely jump online besides checking emails or facebook, let alone joining a forum.

 

[Beentown]

Has anyone considered the law of unintended consequence or maybe even Newton

Where did the rest of my post go? Joe you dirty...

 

[Ohiosam]

Where did the rest of my post go? Joe you dirty...

I bet what ever you posted Beener was profound

 

[Jackalope]

Where did the rest of my post go? Joe you dirty...

I didn't do it. I was wondering the same thing. Reading back it looks like it happened to same post when quoting the same post.

 

[Beentown]

I bet what ever you posted Beener was profound

Ghandi'ish

I was just saying for Mike to quit being so pithy and just expound on what he meant the "opposite" reaction was going to be.

 

[Mountaineer]

"The Laws of Probablity" insured good quality hunting and provided Sustainable deer herds.

I call whats occuring today as "Unsustainable Deer Management" ...We will start seeing the effects from it in the near future.(5years?)

I hope Ohio does not become another Pennsylvania.:smiley_confused_vra

 

[LonewolfNopack]

"The Laws of Probablity" insured good quality hunting and provided Sustainable deer herds.

I call whats occuring today as "Unsustainable Deer Management" ...We will start seeing the effects from it in the near future.(5years?)

I hope Ohio does not become another Pennsylvania.:smiley_confused_vra

Already has in many parts. I read some where online that Tonk came from PA before he came to Ohio. Anybody know if this is true?

 

[bowhunter1023]

I was all primed to attend this weekend and ended up bailing at the last minute. It is rare that I will tend to things on the home front over deer related issues, but this weekend was one of those times. From what I have read, it would not have done me much good to go other than to see Tonk in person. My plan wasn't to speak up anyways, but rather listen and take notes. I regret not going now because I know Rex and his clan will use that to discredit me in the future, but it is what it is. Besides, its not like Tonk doesn't know where I stand as is...

And for those who don't believe it, all I have to say is Lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way.

:smiley_clap:

 

[jagermeister]

"The Laws of Probablity" insured good quality hunting and provided Sustainable deer herds.

I call whats occuring today as "Unsustainable Deer Management" ...We will start seeing the effects from it in the near future.(5years?)

I hope Ohio does not become another Pennsylvania.:smiley_confused_vra

I honestly don't see that happening. Comparing PA to Ohio is like apples to oranges. PA hunters were brought up with the mindset that "any buck is a good buck...," just like the hunters in Michigan. Therefore the need for antler restrictions in PA. In the long run, Ohio may end up with less deer... But I don't think the quality of our bucks will suffer.