2 Hunting Arrow Choices... Looking for Opinions

[jagermeister]

Bow: 2010 Strother Infinity - 60# - 29.75" DL

Here is my current arrow setup...
Easton Flatline 340 - 29" - 375 grains (100 gr tip)
OT2 says... static spine = .340, dynamic spine = .3328
301 fps, 11.6% FOC, 75.74 lbs KE

Here is what I'm thinking of switching to...
Easton ST Excel 300 - 30" - 502 grains (150 gr tip)
OT2 says... static spine = .300, dynamic spine = .2966
260 fps, 13.9% FOC, 75.43 lbs KE


I don't really have any reliability or performance-related reasons to quit shooting my Flatlines. They've held up extremely well and have killed deer plenty dead enough. I've just been playing with the idea of switching to a heavier setup simply to try it.
What do you guys think? Please give me your opinions of either setup, what you would choose to shoot, and why. Thanks!

 

[jagermeister]

Before anyone gets caught up on that 41 fps decrease, think about this...

Deer @ 40 yds from base of my tree = 120 feet from base of tree
120 feet / 301 fps = .3987 sec
120 feet / 260 fps = .4615 sec
Difference of .0628 sec

Is that .0628 seconds enough time to cost me a trophy buck? Keep in mind, this heavy arrow will also be quieter than the fast one.

** Flutey, I would love to see what the time intervals were on that footage of your wife's buck jumping the string...

 

[Beentown]

I am going heavier this year also. A lot to be said for momentum. I am going up to about 550 grain total setup. Do up the momentum numbers and you should see a bigger difference than the KE.

I am currently looking at which arrows to get. Going to ask Skeeter Creek for pricing on some of the thin diameter stuff like HT-1's and Black Eagle Deep Impacts. Probably going to get some 150 grain double helix, Ulmer Edge, or German Kenetics. I need a REALLY stiff arrow. I would like to have a .250 spine so that is going to limit me.

Now I am off to shop... Damn you Jim, my wallet can't take more of this! Lol

 

[cotty16]

I'm torn. I like speed and with today's broad heads you still get penetration. My setup is similar to yours and pass through two years in a row. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Just my opinion.

I see the point on more mass more momentum, but will it sacrifice distance and accuracy? Also will it effect margin of error on slightly misjudged distances?

 

[bowhunter1023]

You won't be happy with the Excels JB. If Easton makes a cheap "throw away" arrow, that's it. I've bought 10 dozen of them over the years when I'm building arrows for people where I'm eating the cost. They are acceptable, but don't possess the toughness that the Axis and Flatlines have. They are brittle to a point. Not sure why you want to switch to them, but I'd look at building a heavier arrow on the Axis platform before I would the Excels.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Oh, and I'd stick with the faster 75lbs of KE. Gives you more room for error on pin placement...

 

[Fluteman]

** Flutey, I would love to see what the time intervals were on that footage of your wife's buck jumping the string...

Six frames between the time the bow went off to the time the arrow struck, 30fps filming, so 0.2 of a second at 13 yards. You could see the deer react in the first frame, which was .0333 seconds.

 

[Milo]

I dont believe in the micro diameter shafting for ohio critters shooting the animals we go after. Out west i would for sure shoot them. Now onto the excels im not concerned about being brittle per se. Im pretty sure im going to blast through almost any angle a buck deer gives me. I am concerned with the guys that are more worried about placing a proper arrow than what damage you need to be able to do once you get there. I would challenge each of you to shoot a much heavier arrow and see what happens with your pin gap. You may be surprised.

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

Shoot heavy!

 

[jagermeister]

Now I am off to shop... Damn you Jim, my wallet can't take more of this! Lol

You're preaching to the choir, brah... lol

I'm torn. I like speed and with today's broad heads you still get penetration. My setup is similar to yours and pass through two years in a row. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Just my opinion.

I see the point on more mass more momentum, but will it sacrifice distance and accuracy? Also will it effect margin of error on slightly misjudged distances?

I've had a few pass-throughs with the Flatlines... all were sub-20 yd shots. That doe I shot last season was about 32 or 35 yds (can't remember)... she was slightly quartering away and I snapped it off in her far side shoulder. And that was out of my Z28, which also threw the Flatlines around 300 fps. I would really like to be able to blow right through that shoulder from that distance. Will I sacrifice distance and accuracy?... I don't think so. Once I adjust the pin gaps, accuracy should be the same, if not better due to a higher FOC percentage. Will my margin for error be reduced?... Possibly.

You won't be happy with the Excels JB. If Easton makes a cheap "throw away" arrow, that's it. I've bought 10 dozen of them over the years when I'm building arrows for people where I'm eating the cost. They are acceptable, but don't possess the toughness that the Axis and Flatlines have. They are brittle to a point. Not sure why you want to switch to them, but I'd look at building a heavier arrow on the Axis platform before I would the Excels.

This disappoints me to hear this, bro. You and I are very similar when it comes to arrows and fletching... If my arrows look shitty, or cheap, I'm not a happy camper. But the way I'm looking at it is you're going to break arrows while shooting deer... no matter how tough they are, some are gonna break. These Excels may be "throw away" arrows, but the price is low enough that I think I might be able to live with that.... We're talking HALF the price of the dang Flatlines. I don't know... I might just have to pick up a half dozen and see what I think. I just wanted a heavier arrow, within having to shell out a bunch of cash.

Six frames between the time the bow went off to the time the arrow struck, 30fps filming, so 0.2 of a second at 13 yards. You could see the deer react in the first frame, which was .0333 seconds.

That's unreal, man. Thanks for digging that up for me. Definitely something to ponder...

 

[rossbows]

I was shooting a easton 340 9.5 gpi. 27 in arrow 26 in draw at 74 lbs. 100g point. Ibo was 265. I tried a gold tip velocity xt. 400 7.4 gpi 30 in arrow ibo 280. Big improvement in speed im going to get six and a custom string hoping to get close to 290. I have seen to many deer jump the string. I would go faster and with i good broadhead you will have no trouble blowing through.

 

[Jackalope]

Jbrown. I've shot Easton axis 340s for years. First out of my old bow pushing 285 fps. With a 100 gr tip. 9.5 gpi with 73 ke. And rarely did the arrow not pass through. I've shot shoulders and femurs right below the joint. Bankshot was hit in the pocket in front of the rear ham and passed through coming out dead center of the offside ham. I shot a large doe 4 years ago quartering away, hit her behind the last rib and came out in front of the offside leg between the brisket and leg. The axis arrows are tough as nails and I'll likely shoot them as long as they make them.

 

[Archertl]

I used to shoot Easton ST Excel and my girlfriend still does I think they are cheep. they dont hold up like jesse said you will start seeing chips in the first six inches of the arrow after a while. if you want heavier get the axis or FMJs

 

[Dannmann801]

kinda sounds like you're going from a Bersa .380 to a Kimber .45ACP.....

 

[jagermeister]

Jbrown. I've shot Easton axis 340s for years. First out of my old bow pushing 285 fps. With a 100 gr tip. 9.5 gpi with 73 ke. And rarely did the arrow not pass through. I've shot shoulders and femurs right below the joint. Bankshot was hit in the pocket in front of the rear ham and passed through coming out dead center of the offside ham. I shot a large doe 4 years ago quartering away, hit her behind the last rib and came out in front of the offside leg between the brisket and leg. The axis arrows are tough as nails and I'll likely shoot them as long as they make them.

I used to shoot Easton ST Excel and my girlfriend still does I think they are cheep. they dont hold up like jesse said you will start seeing chips in the first six inches of the arrow after a while. if you want heavier get the axis or FMJs

Sounds like I may have to get a SCO price check on the axis arrahs...

kinda sounds like you're going from a Bersa .380 to a Kimber .45ACP.....

I'd definitely rather take one to the chest from that .380 than the .45! lol

 

[Beentown]

After window shopping I am going to try and resist the urge. The numbers look good with the arrows I have now (uncut) just need to decide on some 150 grain heads pending my FOC numbers/flight characteristics.

May go back to Steelforce and try the Phathead 145's. Always liked the Premiums I used before.

I would be right at 450 grains total with a speed around 280...79KE and MO of .56

@ 400 grain total arrow weight (100 heads) I am at 301 FPS right now. It is hardly a change in any of the numbers. I will add the weight if FOC/flight is that much better. May have to see how SCO's broadhead selection changes things. Broadheads are like crack for him I think. Lol

 

[jagermeister]

After window shopping I am going to try and resist the urge. The numbers look good with the arrows I have now (uncut) just need to decide on some 150 grain heads pending my FOC numbers/flight characteristics.

May go back to Steelforce and try the Phathead 145's. Always liked the Premiums I used before.

I would be right at 450 grains total with a speed around 280...79KE and MO of .56

@ 400 grain total arrow weight (100 heads) I am at 301 FPS right now. It is hardly a change in any of the numbers. I will add the weight if FOC/flight is that much better. May have to see how SCO's broadhead selection changes things. Broadheads are like crack for him I think. Lol

You wouldn't be disappointed in the Phatheads, beener... Those are some awesome broadheads.

 

[bowhunter1023]

I also shot the Axis arrows for a long time and absolutely love them! The one and only reason I switched to Flatlines was for speed to cut down on pin gap and misjudged yardage. I went from shooting a 431 grain Axis at 270 fps with roughly 70 pounds of KE, to a 390 grain Flatline at 290 fps with roughly 73 pounds of KE. I had the chance to the how tough the Flatlines were first hand at Cardinal thanks to you, so that alleviated that fear. If I ever leave the Flatlines, it will be to go back to the Axis or the FMJ...

 

[jagermeister]

The Flatline is a phenomenal arrow shaft... No doubt about that. I just wish it were offered in a .300 spine. That's the main issue here. With my current bow setup, I can't increase weight on the front end unless I bump up to at least a .300 spine arrow shaft. Even if I just went to a 125 gr head, my current 29" flatlines would be too weak. I'm just going to have to find out what the difference in cost will be between the Excels and the Axis.

I do like the speed of the Flatlines... as my pin gaps are pretty dang tight. And KE leaving the bow is right up there... but as Beener said there's a pretty significant difference in momentum between them and the heavier shafts.

 

[Schu72]

I also shot the Axis arrows for a long time and absolutely love them! The one and only reason I switched to Flatlines was for speed to cut down on pin gap and misjudged yardage. I went from shooting a 431 grain Axis at 270 fps with roughly 70 pounds of KE, to a 390 grain Flatline at 290 fps with roughly 73 pounds of KE. I had the chance to the how tough the Flatlines were first hand at Cardinal thanks to you, so that alleviated that fear. If I ever leave the Flatlines, it will be to go back to the Axis or the FMJ...

What did you do to gain 20 FPS? I need to get my set up chrono'ed.