Bonus weekend, season down.

[Curran]

OK... wait a fuggin minute here...

Just a few weeks ago, Tonk said this... (http://www.theohiooutdoors.com/showthread.php?10463-Down/page6)

One assessment that counts rather a lot is that of biologist Mike Tonkovich, the Ohio Division of Wildlife’s point man for deer management. Here it is:

“I’m pretty pleased with the way the season turned out,” he said. “I thought we’d be (down) 5 percent to 10 percent from last year.”

And now he says this...

The fact Ohio hunters shot 14-percent fewer deer this past weekend versus what they killed in 2011 “really surprises me,” says Mike Tonkovich, the Ohio Division of Wildlife’s deer management administrator.

“I was really expecting to see increases both with this season as well as our seven-day general gun season,” Tonkovich says.

What am I missing here? Does he think that we're a bunch of dumb shits that bobble our heads and go along with what ever is coming out of his mouth at the moment? I guess the answer to that question is "Yes"

 

[Ohiosam]

Curran that's the problem with lies, they tend to snowball.

 

[finelyshedded]

He thought he was talking to the insurance company in the first part Sean, the other response is what he meant to tell the hunting sector. So in essence he just plain forgot who he was talking to at that moment.

 

[brock ratcliff]

Let's see, the farm bureau suggested a herd of 250k, no way hunters would support that, so is the best way to accomplish that goal to just keep knocking the herd down and reporting an estimated herd of 700k+? That's what I'd do if I wanted people to work towards a goal "they" don't want.

 

[Jackalope]

What am I missing here? Does he think that we're a bunch of dumb shits that bobble our heads and go along with what ever is coming out of his mouth at the moment? I guess the answer to that question is "Yes"

Actually yes he does.. And in some ways we are. We as hunters are not organized as a whole. Which means he can use mass media to talk to all of us, however we don't talk to all of us.. He can say what he want's and the vast majority will take it at face value. It is only a very small percentage of the hunting population that participates on boards such as these. So at the end of the day he can spew his crap, most will believe it, and those that don't are little less than a squeak. However the group of those pissed off and in the know keeps growing. People will start looking for answers.

 

[jagermeister]

I must admit... That article even pisses me off right now. That's really saying something...

 

[Curran]

Actually yes he does.. And in some ways we are. We as hunters are not organized as a whole. Which means he can use mass media to talk to all of us, however we don't talk to all of us.. He can say what he want's and the vast majority will take it at face value. It is only a very small percentage of the hunting population that participates on boards such as these. So at the end of the day he can spew his crap, most will believe it, and those that don't are little less than a squeak. However the group of those pissed off and in the know keeps growing. People will start looking for answers.

I know there are a lot more people looking for answer than just those of us on the boards. I get to talk to a lot of guys around the start that hunt just due to my work. There aren't too many out there who aren't starting to question the state of our deer herd. I'd venture to say that most of the guys I talk with are starting to see less deer, and are starting to wonder if we're killing too many. That's a good thing... good that they're starting to wake up, and good that they're starting to question. And we hunters need to get organized as a whole. You're right about that. We don't have a seat at the Big Kids table right now. We've got chairs for the DOW, OFBF, and the Insurance Lobby, but not one that I can see for the Deer hunters of the state. Something's wrong with that picture.

 

[bowhunter1023]

I ask everyone I can about the number of deer they see and the answer is almost always "we don't see near the deer we used to". I'll throw $50 down on the booth at the expo right now. I'm ready for war...

 

[brock ratcliff]

I just can't believe the DOW estimated our herd at 500k back in the day, and now estimate it far higher...but most everyone sees far fewer deer, seemingly everywhere! I don't know that the herd estimates were more or less accurate back then than they are now, but the herd hasn't remained stagnant as their estimates have! It's bull! I'll be glad to through in for the booth as well. If I remember correctly, they run around 500 for the weekend. Of course it's been a few years since I've had one so I'm sure it's up from that.

What would be the goal of the booth? Do we have questionaires? Surveys of our own? Just to communicate with others? What's the goal, and are the obtainable by a booth?

 

[bowhunter1023]

With the booth, I think the possibilities are limitless on what we can achieve through questionnaires, surveys, promotion of TOO and our soon to be formed sister site. Not to mention collecting donations to fight the battle and to be a presence that is more than a squeak.

 

[CritterGitterToo]

The booth idea sounds FANTASTIC!

 

[Beentown]

Do the Collision Repair companies have an Association or the like? I know they would be motivated in maybe donating to the cause. The ones I visited before getting my rig fixed were all bitching about not getting 70% of the DV collision repair compared to 10 years ago, which is their bread and butter.

 

[brock ratcliff]

Funny you mention that, Been. I had thought the exact same thing the other day, but then again, it would look bad to promote more accidents.

 

[Beentown]

Funny you mention that, Been. I had thought the exact same thing the other day, but then again, it would look bad to promote more accidents.

Doesn't have to be known...

 

[Beentown]

Doesn't have to be known...

You know like the Farmer Bureau, Nationwide, ODNR connection.

 

[bowhunter1023]

You know like the Farmer Bureau, Nationwide, ODNR connection.

:smiley_clap:

 

[Jackalope]

That's the beautiful thing about super pacs. The money can come from anywhere. You just have to send a list to the Feds quarterly of who they are. But they can send that money through anyone or anything. They can send it to a PAC for save the hermit crabs with instructions to send it to your PAC. Then you report that "save the hermit crabs pac" sent you YYY dollars.

 

["J"]

Just talked too a buddy a little bit a go... Hard core hunter and was out out both days all day with three other people in three differant locations up here and not a deer too be seen.... He's baffled as he didn't even see a tail flying away from them..... Scratching his head as this is a first for him in 30 years of deer hunting.....

 

[RedCloud]

Correct me if I missed something here. Quotes by Tonk

“I was really expecting to see increases both with this season as well as our seven-day general gun season,” Tonkovich says

and not all that long ago...Just over a week ago as a matter of fact. Oh how things can change in just a few days lmao

One assessment that counts rather a lot is that of biologist Mike Tonkovich, the Ohio Division of Wildlife’s point man for deer management. Here it is:

“I’m pretty pleased with the way the season turned out,” he said. “I thought we’d be (down) 5 percent to 10 percent from last year.”

 

[Lundy]

There are multiple aspects of that article that are asinine.

How does he know what the hunting pressure was this weekend? Does he think there was light hunting pressure because the kill was low? Where I hunted it was heavy hunting pressure. I want to see the Athens County kill. There were more shots on saturday that during the Saturday regular gun season, Sunday was less shooting than Saturday. I don't know about the rest of the state but there were a lot of hunters near me.

We have a population reduction, over harvest, problem in all areas of the state, some are worse than others. You eliminate the 2 day due to low harvest, but institute a state wide DOE only season in October. If the harvest is a even exchange between the existing 2 day and the proposed 2 day doe you further reduce the population. A percentage of the harvest during the "bonus 2 day" are bucks. We would now be shifting that harvest to all antlerless.

I do not understand how he can be surprised at a lower harvest. Every indicator pointed to it happening.

That’s possible, but the bar has been raised,” Tonkovich says. “We let the deer population too become larger but hunters need to keep in mind that we have a job to do and that includes bringing the level of quality deer to what we saw in the 1980s.”

Oh my! What was the population in the 80's? They don't know what the population is today how do they know what the population was in the 80's? He equates deer QUAILTY to the 80's population. In the area I hunt the 80's population was MUCH larger than it is today.

We, my hunting group, have not killed the deer from the property we hunt. We hunt 600+ acres and have never taken more than 5 in any one season, ever. Most seasons we take a total of 3. The neighbors have enjoyed the increased bag limits and tags for sure. The ODNR set the rules to allow it to happen but hunters killed the deer, many of the same hunters that complain now about not seeing deer.

I also after reading this have to apologize and walk back some of my statements in the "Down" thread. I was under the false assumption that the deer population was being managed by a group that had somewhat of a good assessment on how to manage the resource. That they could easily and effectively manage harvest without limiting opportunity. That they had the foresight and desire to manage harvest in a manner than provided maximum hunting opportunity while curtailing harvest to allow for a population expansion. I no longer hold the belief that the resource is being, or will be, managed to maximize the hunting experience and opportunities while providing some equal balance to the concern for over population. I now believe that the hunter concern is a secondary priority to other (non hunter)pressures applied for population control.