cva or tc

[formerbowhunter1023]

Funny how name brands have their followers and promotors and yet the off brand just trys to defend theirs purchase. Wonder why?

I'm not defending my purchase. I'm explaining why I will never purchase a T/C. I make no apologies for not concerning myself with buying American made goods. I do it when I can, but I don't go out of my way to make it happen. I was given a CVA for my first muzzleloader and it's performance made me a loyal customer. That has strengthened through the purchase of two more CVA's, the last of which is an amazing shooting muzzleloader holding sub 3" groups at 100 yards. I have never had a misfire or a delayed fire in that gun. The only beef I have is the camo chipping off the stock in one place. The fact that the gun was not made in America has nothing to do with it's performance and that's all I care about. That, and not fattening the pockets of a liar and cheat...

 

[Ohiosam]

At this time Gregg Ritz has no association with T/C or S&W that I know of and hasn't for nearly 3 years.

Using Ritz as an excuse to not buy T/C is pretty weak.

 

[Beentown]

At this time Gregg Ritz has no association with T/C or S&W that I know of and hasn't for nearly 3 years.

Using Ritz as an excuse to not buy T/C is pretty weak.

Hmm. Thinkin your wrong. This is from 4/2010

http://www.tcarms.com/articles/detail.php?a=6

Beentown

 

[Beentown]

But I want a T/C Warlord!

Beentown

 

[formerbowhunter1023]

Thank you Charles, I was just about to post that...

At this time Gregg Ritz has no association with T/C or S&W that I know of and hasn't for nearly 3 years.

Using Ritz as an excuse to not buy T/C is pretty weak.

Coming from a T/C fanboy, I would think you would know better. He owned. He sold it. And the new powers that be still let him pimp it. I'm sure he retained a royalty or gets compensated for his continued endorsements. Either way, his pockets still benefit from a sale to someone like me...

Let's start with the fact that I don't need an "excuse" to not buy a T/C. I'm a free willed American consumer and I just happen to like my CVA's enough that I wouldn't buy one with or without Greg Ritz. At the end of the day, T/C is still using Greg Ritz, and visa versa, to make money. And any company that uses a liar and cheat to make money, is not one that will get my money. Not even when the resident T/C fans think I should...

 

[CdBurner]

What about Greg Ritz would keep you from buying one of T/C guns???

http://skinnymoose.com/moosedroppin...n-center-press-release-about-game-trails-llc/

http://skinnymoose.com/moosedroppin...n-center-press-release-about-game-trails-llc/

http://skinnymoose.com/moosedroppin...llc-press-release-to-the-kentucky-court-case/

Plus I think he may have left the company in 2008 since S&W bought them in 2007. Maybe I'm missing something, but I've read up a bit. Maybe BH1023 knows more? I'd like to know what I can since I'm gonna be in the market in the next year. And yes, MADE IN THE USA means a lot to me.

 

[Geezer]

SEMPER FI

 

[Dannmann801]

The one thing that this thread proves is that with every purchase made there is not only the object of price, but the emotional involvement of the buyer with his purchase. Many factors can weigh on a purchase - is it domestic or foreign? Is it "green"? Peer pressure - Will this purchase reflect badly on me if it doesn't perform as I had hoped? Negative impressions that have been made about a product or service can sometimes influence a decision - negative impressions that have no grounds of basis of fact. (I had a guy tell me once....)

I did my research and felt comfortable with my decision to purchase T/C, but changed direction at the last minute and went with Knight based on the recommendation of someone I trust, (my gun dealer FFL guy) and going to "feel" the gun for myself at a shop. And based on what I've seen/heard/read, I'd not hesitate to buy a T/C in the future. CVA? My initial impression of them is that they were cheapies prone to blow up in your face. But looking into it, that is probably an unfair/inaccurate characterization. It's not fair, but an obstacle I have to overcome before buying a CVA.

All I can say is talk it around, figure out what satifies your emotional needs, and go with your gut, even if it's more expensive.

Then buy the Knight - they've got the double safety - isn't your family's future deserving of that, for you to be safe?
and it's "J" recommended.

PS - this post was inspired as an answer to T's "Funny how name brands have their followers and promotors and yet the off brand just trys to defend theirs purchase. Wonder why?"

The answer: Pride, ego, self-esteem, whatever you want to call it. That's why purchases are so emotional.

 

[formerbowhunter1023]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I've read up a bit. Maybe BH1023 knows more? I'd like to know what I can since I'm gonna be in the market in the next year.

Here's the deal...

It is very likely that Greg Ritz retained some sort of compensation tied to the sale of T/C products through the sale to S&W, i.e. royalties. Now I do not know this for sure. What I do know is that Greg Ritz is a businessman and I'd be willing to bet there was something negotiated along those lines. Even if there were not, he is still one of the many faces of the product. Hunt Masters, his new show, is sponsored by T/C among many other big name companies. T/C still uses Ritz on their Pro Hunter Journal and in their advertisements. And the very least, he is being compensated for these activities because they result in T/C sales. At the end of the day, the ties have not been completely severed with Greg Ritz. IMO, they should have cut all ties with the man and since they have obviously failed to do that, I refuse to purchase one of their weapons. It is not excuse as Sam claims it to be, but rather a personal choice.

Ritz may not own T/C and he may not have anything to do with day to day business operations, but the man is still benefitting from the sales of their guns. That cannot be denied...

 

[Ohiosam]

Hmm. Thinkin your wrong. This is from 4/2010

http://www.tcarms.com/articles/detail.php?a=6

Beentown

That article is old, it was in G&A in 2007. http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/an-icon-of-innovation
S&W has owned T/C since January of 2007 and Ritz stayed with the company until April of 2008. The crimes committed in KY took place in 2006 and earlier.

CVA quality has improved but in their past some of their guns were so bad that the whole company was cheating it's customers.

I have no issue if you make the CVA decision to buy a based on price, they offer a lot of gun for the $$. The question was which to buy, I gave my reasons in post #4.

BTW I don't have cable TV so I don't watch those TV hunting shows. I blame a lot of the problems we have on those shows, the pressure to harvest bigger and bigger and the unrealistic expectations of how much work it takes to do it over and over again. If people didn't watch them, those making them(like Ritz) wouldn't be rewarded for producing them at any cost.

 

[Beentown]

Then buy the Knight - they've got the double safety - isn't your family's future deserving of that, for you to be safe?
and it's "J" recommended.QUOTE]

My safety is between my ears. The double safety is nothing but a gimmick. I buy gimmicks sometimes myself.

Beentown

 

["J"]

Then buy the Knight - they've got the double safety - isn't your family's future deserving of that, for you to be safe?
and it's "J" recommended.QUOTE]

My safety is between my ears. The double safety is nothing but a gimmick. I buy gimmicks sometimes myself. Beentown

Very true but it don't hurt to have a back-up.... Justa sayin.... Nobody's perfect not even a machine.....

 

[uglykat26]

wow i opened a can a worms that i didnt mean to , price doesnt mean much to me , its accuracy , ease of cleaning , i have seen bad guns from both companies , but this new cva accura v2 is looking good to me , at just over 400 bucks , i think it would compete with if not beat the tc bone collector , or the tc encore , so come on guys get back on track here , me personally dont care who is representing whos company cause that dont mean squat when i have a deer standing broadside at 150 yards , i have bee turned away from the traditions , another friend of mine baught the same gun as another friend , one is very accurate gun , the second gun litterally fell apart after 12 shots , so traditions is out for me , atleast the traditions pursuit anyway

so based on accuracy , ease of use , misfires or any other problems with the gun its self is what i wanna base my decision on not whos face is associated with the name or where its made

cause honestly i wouldnt care if the gun is made in timbuktoo , if its an accurate and reliable gun im gonna buy one

 

[formerbowhunter1023]

You won't be disappointed in the CVA Mark. I've owned three of them and all three were great guns. My current set-up is a tack driver when using 100 grain of Triple 7 pellets, 270 grain Powerbelt Platinum bullets, and Remington Kleen Bore primers. And yes, I think primers can make a difference in the accuracy equation. With the new Accura having the quick release breech, you get a great gun with some great features without paying an inflated MRSP to cover the pimpage. (i.e. Bone Collector BS) I've put my faith in CVA three times and I'm about to do it a fourth and as you can see, I put some thought in to where my money goes. Maybe TOO much!

 

[rrr]

and Remington Kleen Bore primers. And yes, I think primers can make a difference in the accuracy equation.

Do tell. Is it just the 'cleanliness' of them (thus affecting/limiting the spark that hits the powder...?

 

[Ohiosam]

Ernie, "Kleen Bore" is a name that probably goes back 80 years. Priming compounds used to be corrosive, Kleen Bore primers had a compound that wasn't corrosive. There are minor differences in primers that can affect accuracy. Power of the primer is the most common difference. There are some light powered primers just for ML. In theory the stronger primers move the bullet before the powder charge ignites. I never saw an advantage to them in my rifles but some guys swear by them, especially with 777. I use Blackhorn 209, it needs a regular primer or even a magnum primer. I have had good luck with regular Winchester primers in my rifles.

OOPs, I didn't realize that Kleenbore is the name Remington is using on their lighter ML primers. They used the name for so many years I didn't catch the change.

 

[Dannmann801]

wow i opened a can a worms that i didnt mean to , price doesnt mean much to me , its accuracy , ease of cleaning , i have seen bad guns from both companies , but this new cva accura v2 is looking good to me , at just over 400 bucks , i think it would compete with if not beat the tc bone collector , or the tc encore , so come on guys get back on track here , me personally dont care who is representing whos company cause that dont mean squat when i have a deer standing broadside at 150 yards , i have bee turned away from the traditions , another friend of mine baught the same gun as another friend , one is very accurate gun , the second gun litterally fell apart after 12 shots , so traditions is out for me , atleast the traditions pursuit anyway

so based on accuracy , ease of use , misfires or any other problems with the gun its self is what i wanna base my decision on not whos face is associated with the name or where its made

cause honestly i wouldnt care if the gun is made in timbuktoo , if its an accurate and reliable gun im gonna buy one

See? You've already got a gut decision - you're just looking for validation, wanting to make sure.
Sounds like you've been given some good reassurance....

 

[rrr]

Gotcha on the primers - I use Winchesters, just because they were the only ones the Fin had when I was there to buy them.

 

[Dannmann801]

Then buy the Knight - they've got the double safety - isn't your family's future deserving of that, for you to be safe?
and it's "J" recommended.QUOTE]

My safety is between my ears. The double safety is nothing but a gimmick. I buy gimmicks sometimes myself.

Beentown

Beenie,
The double safety is a FEATURE....this feature seems like a gimmick to you, but to someone else carrying the weapon they might see it as a BENEFIT.

Features and benefits - these are some of the key things that affect buyer's decisions. In all honesty, it didn't affect my decision, because I really didn't understand it until after I'd made the purchase. Once I did, it gave me an extra sense of security, knowing that even if the trigger was pulled and the bolt went forward the gun couldn't fire with the secondary safety on. That makes me happy, just like the safety on my Mossberg. It will impact my future muzzy choices, if'n I ever decide to get another.

 

[Ohiosam]

My Encore has this really neat safety, you open it. ickle: