Nope, just a walk a mile in his shoes comment. About 5% of the kill last year was killed with CDPs. If anyone wipes out the herd it'll be licensed hunters.
Gun week total is down 8%
- Thread starter Ohiosam
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Nope, just a walk a mile in his shoes comment. About 5% of the kill last year was killed with CDPs. If anyone wipes out the herd it'll be licensed hunters.
CDP's account for very little of the harvest. It does not condone the kind of out lay of money that some are suggesting. I can tell who has farmed and who hasn't. Do I believe CDP's are abused in some cases...yes. There are way bigger fish to fry in the management of the deer herd than CDP's. I am suprised at the emotional reaction to 3-5% of the harvest and a program that is needed by people that are just trying to protect their family (income).
Just saw Sam already put a bunch up here. Was typing and had a guy about cut his hand off on the job. Dumb fuggs!
Beentown
Just saw Sam already put a bunch up here. Was typing and had a guy about cut his hand off on the job. Dumb fuggs!
Beentown
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Don't tell anyone, but the farmers around here put out fly bait and a can of coke mixed together in a tin pan and the coons fall over dead within 20 feet.......there's no reason to bother getting out the rifle and spotlight.
Oh, and the Purdue university study that you mentioned, I agree with it.....the farmers around here wouldn't care if there was a live deer within 20 miles of their place, most tell you to kill all you can.....I think the farmers opinion should only be 1/4 of the weight in the decision making process on bag limits.
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Milo
Tatonka guide.
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question for you...who funds your crop insurance programs?? Who pays farmers subsidies?if farmers were compensated for wildlife damage which critter caused it would be a moot point. it would take the farmer out of the equation. Are you unwilling to pay for damage do by your wildlife jack?
Btw i remember having a conversation with a guy willing to go to some extreme measures to stop coon from eating bait.
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That's a load of crap and you know it bud... As long as a farmer has 1 permit in his hand that makes it legal to be out there with a rifle and a spotlight, he will gut shoot deer until he is happy.... Nothing illegal is going on.. He has a right to be shooting at deer using a light in the middle of the night... He can't help it if he's a shit shot.. 1 permit in his hand is a permit to as many deer as he wants to kill..
If the DNR wants to do Crop Damage permits.. FINE.. No crop damage permits may be used without the direct supervision of a DNR Employee or Volunteer. I bet there are a bunch of hunters who would gladly volunteer their time and go to a class to do that...
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Yeah, well,, farmers have a giant lobbyist organization advocating for them.. Hunters don't.. Most assume the DNR is that for the sportsmen.. HA.. Boy are they fooled.
I met a farmer in Knox county a couple years ago while doing some soils science training. He had one of the most beautiful properties I've ever seen, and some very nice skull plates along the beams of his barn. He told me himself, as a farmer, that he was sick of the damage permits. The neighboring farmer apparently abuses this shit out of them, because each year this guy finds countless gut-shot deer carcasses all around his farm. That's pretty damn sickening.
I am sitting here biting my tongue. Just as Milo/Jack/ or myself cannot be blamed for every poached deer by hunters, I do not think it is fair to bitch at Ohiosam simply because he is a farmer. i have read the comments, and I am thinking many of his remarks have been pretty "middle of the road" and not emotionally charged. We can't bitch at Sam simply because he is a farmer no quicker than anti-hunters should have the right to call Milo a poacher simply because he hunts deer.
In the end, I do believe there are "some" justified cases where crop damage permits should be granted. Unfortunately, these have too often been abused. These are the people we hear about. We never hear about the farmers which do not abuse them or that never get put in the spotlight. in regards to nursery crops, then I have seen it first hand what can happen. Of course, there are insects, fungii, and plenty of other issues to worry about with nursery crops to go along with the deer. Lots of risks if you enter this field. I guess ultimately I can see the view points of both parties. I can't say I have a strong feeling either way on these issues. IF they are properly issued and overseen by the WO, I believe they are okay. When the WO just hands them out and never does any follow up, I can certainly see them being abused.
In the end, I do believe there are "some" justified cases where crop damage permits should be granted. Unfortunately, these have too often been abused. These are the people we hear about. We never hear about the farmers which do not abuse them or that never get put in the spotlight. in regards to nursery crops, then I have seen it first hand what can happen. Of course, there are insects, fungii, and plenty of other issues to worry about with nursery crops to go along with the deer. Lots of risks if you enter this field. I guess ultimately I can see the view points of both parties. I can't say I have a strong feeling either way on these issues. IF they are properly issued and overseen by the WO, I believe they are okay. When the WO just hands them out and never does any follow up, I can certainly see them being abused.
Milo
Tatonka guide.
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5 % of last years deer harvest equates to $195,000 dollars in lost revenue FYI.....13K deer( @ the 15 dollar tag level)....Problem with your analogy Hicks is there are other options available and they are not being utilized. that's what i have a problem with. stop the fuggin' handouts cause we would all sure love free tags too
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I don't think anyone is bitching at Sam for his chosen profession bud.. The conversation was about farmers (plural) effects on deer populations etc.. Sam interjected as a singular farmer (himself) to use as an example.. This does not mean the bitching about farmers (plural) is directed at a farmer (singular).. If Sam is straight and narrow then he is. But, he is not the yardstick by which all others are measured.. Just as all others are not the yardstick of how he is personally measured...
Of the local farms I know that have used CDPs the majority either are not participating in the programs or their participation is minimal because of the crops grown(many crops are not eligible for subsidies) or for religious reasons. The Big Time Operators around here don't bother with CDPs(the guys getting the big $$), CDPs user tend to be the smaller farms where the production is concentrated at one or two locations.
Question for you, why are some of the biggest problems with over harvesting on public lands and in places like Vinton county where Ag is minimal?
Milo
Tatonka guide.
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disease and the lack of ag land does not help them deer count estimations either. the more remote, the harder to count. You haven't answered my question completely....
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1. Because southern Ohio people are much friendlier and more likely to allow hunting than yankee flatlanders..
2. The DNR has fugged up the population estimates in those areas and allowed over harvest after disease.
I am defending the ODNR having the option (as a wildlife management tool) to issue permits to harvest excess deer in problem areas, whether the problem is an Ag problem, an airport or another problem that I haven't thought of. I am not defending individual farmers if they abuse them. I expect and assume that a WO or other ODNR employee has determined that the problem is real and killing deer will help with the problem. I also expect the local WO to oversee that the rules are being followed.
I personally know most of the people that get the CDPs in my area, I know these people to be good people that are NOT getting their kicks slaughtering deer this way.
For the record I have never asked for CDPs for my farm, not saying I never will. Long time ago I did kill a couple of deer for another farm's permits, it's not something I really want to do.
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I think I have answered the intent of your question, the more a farm is involved the programs the less likely it is to use the permits. Are you saying that because farmer "A" get a subsidy, farmer "B" who doesn't becomes ineligible for CDPs?
Even if they do get subsidies why are these 2 farms different. A grain farmer in Shelby county that has a 320 acre field with 20 acres of woods next to it and a grain farmer in Coshocton county has a 20 acre field with 320 acres of woods around it. Both are probably getting getting similar subsides per acre, which is getting more damage?
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Milo
Tatonka guide.
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nope nice try..your crop insurance programs are funded by.................get this one man....the TAX PAYER....unbelievable right? who wudathunkit??...We are paying for our crop damage done by critters all this time....farmers are also paid for being a farmer by everyone else....a taxpayer again... somebeech...
You have no idea how crop insurance works. I'll explain the most common type.
First you are guaranteed based on your past (10 years)production, this is called your APH(Actual Production History). So unless you have had zero wildlife damage in the past your APH has been lowered because of prior damage. You buy insurance as a % of your APH, options are from 50%-85% with 75% being the most common.
So if you have an APH of 125 bushels per acre and a 75% policy you have to lose 31 B per A before you begin to collect. If you produce 80 B per A you will get paid for 14 bushels even though you lost 45 bushels. On top of that your APH for next year is lower.
Crop insurance is not the answer for a chronic problem like wildlife damage.