So, how would you fix it?

[dante322]

I think its obvious that the herd in ohio is drastically smaller. the dnr seems to be oblivious to this, or they know and dont care.

If it was in your power to make positive changes, what would you do?

There has been some talk about changing from county by county to a deer management unit system. Good idea. Just speaking from my own observations in my county. there seems to be better numbers in the northern part of the county than there are in the southern part, Thus creating 2 different "zones" within the same county.

I would make antlerless tags invalid in any area that has had a 40% or more decrease in harvest over the past 5 years. You want to shoot a doe in those areas? you'll put an either sex tag on it. Those areas should also have a 2 deer limit. period.

The statement has been made that current bag limits are based on a poll of farmers 13 years ago. Time to update that information. By polling the farmers you are asking a biased group what they want , of course they want all the deer dead. The new data should include not only farmers, but hunters and landowners as well. The farmer is not always the landowner around here. The landowner typically leases the field to a second party to farm it. the landowner doesn't care about crop damage, they are getting their money anyway.

Reinstate the database to connect hunters with landowners and farmers. The hunters responded to it a couple years ago, but the farmers did not. If a farmer wants kill permits, he must select a specified number of local hunters from the list, based on the number of wooded acres versus agricultural acerage. the farmer should also be educated on how to tell the difference between damage caused by deer versus damage caused by other animals like groundhogs, coon, and opposum. The hunter should also be required to report his or her observations on the number of deer on that property.

Not sure how to get the deer from the urban areas. The suddision housewife complains that the deer are eating her gardens and landscaping, destroying that expensive sapling they just planted... But without hunting them, how do you force the deer to move from an area where they have food and security.

 

[Lundy]

For my area it would be simple, 2 deer limit, both either sex tags, and eleminate deer drives

The just ran a drive on the adjoining property to the East. Over 20 guys and 83 shots in 14 minutes. Two wounded deer came across the field near me 5 min ago. I'm hoping they at least attempt to follow up. Did I mention I hate drives and most of the people in them

 

[Milo]

I think its obvious that the herd in ohio is drastically smaller. the dnr seems to be oblivious to this, or they know and dont care.

If it was in your power to make positive changes, what would you do?

There has been some talk about changing from county by county to a deer management unit system. Good idea. Just speaking from my own observations in my county. there seems to be better numbers in the northern part of the county than there are in the southern part, Thus creating 2 different "zones" within the same county.

I would make antlerless tags invalid in any area that has had a 40% or more decrease in harvest over the past 5 years. You want to shoot a doe in those areas? you'll put an either sex tag on it. Those areas should also have a 2 deer limit. period.

The statement has been made that current bag limits are based on a poll of farmers 13 years ago. Time to update that information. By polling the farmers you are asking a biased group what they want , of course they want all the deer dead. The new data should include not only farmers, but hunters and landowners as well. The farmer is not always the landowner around here. The landowner typically leases the field to a second party to farm it. the landowner doesn't care about crop damage, they are getting their money anyway.

Reinstate the database to connect hunters with landowners and farmers. The hunters responded to it a couple years ago, but the farmers did not. If a farmer wants kill permits, he must select a specified number of local hunters from the list, based on the number of wooded acres versus agricultural acerage. the farmer should also be educated on how to tell the difference between damage caused by deer versus damage caused by other animals like groundhogs, coon, and opposum. The hunter should also be required to report his or her observations on the number of deer on that property.

Not sure how to get the deer from the urban areas. The suddision housewife complains that the deer are eating her gardens and landscaping, destroying that expensive sapling they just planted... But without hunting them, how do you force the deer to move from an area where they have food and security.

count the actual deer....ALIVE...

 

[Hoytmania]

For my area it would be simple, 2 deer limit, both either sex tags, and eleminate deer drives

The just ran a drive on the adjoining property to the East. Over 20 guys and 83 shots in 14 minutes. Two wounded deer came across the field near me 5 min ago. I'm hoping they at least attempt to follow up. Did I mention I hate drives and most of the people in them

That is absolutely ridiculous that isn't hunting

 

[cotty16]

For my area it would be simple, 2 deer limit, both either sex tags, and eleminate deer drives

The just ran a drive on the adjoining property to the East. Over 20 guys and 83 shots in 14 minutes. Two wounded deer came across the field near me 5 min ago. I'm hoping they at least attempt to follow up. Did I mention I hate drives and most of the people in them

Or limit group size in drives. I used to see the same thing at the sportsman club I belong to. Huge groups doing drives, slinging lead, not checking to see if deer were hit or tracking ones that were.
During youth weekend this year, a young man knocked a big buck down. They never tracked it. Didn't have time I guess. Had to move on to the next drive.
2-6 man drives are not bad. Large groups suck and they're not safe.

 

[nis1]

2 deer limit with possible antler restrictions. Bring back antlerless urban tags since the city is the only place holding deer.

No deer drives on public land

 

[CritterGitterToo]

Regulating drives would be very difficult. 5 guys could be lined up 20 yards apart, walk thru a wood lot slowly and claim they were still hunting. I'll try to formulate some ideas for this discussion later.

 

[hickslawns]

I like county by county limits. Step in the right direction. Doesn't seem they have our counties within the limits they should be. Our county should not be a 4 deer county in my opinion. There are certainly properties which can handle this for a year or two, but not longterm. Most areas cannot withstand this harvest obliteration though.

I am disagreeing with the antler restriction. I would be more apt to see "earn a doe" versus "earn a buck" which some states require. haha

 

[LonewolfNopack]

Three month bow season October 1st to December 31st

1 week of gun, period. No youth gun, no muzzy, just one week period.

1,2 and 3 deer counties. No antlerless tags.

Its really a simple fix, doesn't require a phD to figure out. If we did this I can guarentee we would see populations rebound to what they use to be within 5 years.

It's all a pipe dream though. The DOW wanted less deer and that this what they got.

 

[Hedgelj]

All the animosity towards the drive hunters....but those don't sound like hunters. I have been driving deer since I started deer hunting. I have done 3-30 person drives and they are as safe or as hazardous as the people in them make them. As to the wounding and not tracking that's just piss poor slob hunting and I've seen the same thing from hunters standing/sitting as well as drivers. A few years ago we were doing a drive and I was on the one outside edge and came across another hunter (we were on public land). I had heard some shots from where he was sitting so I asked what he had shot at. He said we had pushed some does past him. I asked if he had hit any of them. He said he might have the one was stumbling as it ran off. I asked him if he was going to track it and he said no, I only count the ones that fall where I shoot them, tracking them is too much work. Needless to say I somehow kept my tongue in check, tracked the doe and it had been shot low in the front shoulder and I finished her off.

But anyways back to the topic.............
1.) Count the actual deer that exist, not the dead ones to know where the actual #s are in the different areas of the state and manage the herd locally not on a statewide basis.
2.) If a farmer wants nuisance permits he/she must also provide a certain amount of access to hunters the following season or no more permits. This access must be documented by both the hunter and the farmer. Establish a list of hunters willing and able to do this and also guidelines to protect the farmer and the hunter. If either is a douche then they are both out of the program and SOL.
3.) Do #2 but with additional training for the hunters in order to help out the urban areas. Eliminate the sharpshooters for hire coming in and decimating deer herds.
4.) Make a survey part of the process to obtain a deer tag. Use the results of this survey to determine what the hunters want and combine that with actual management strategies based upon a healthy productive deer herd and attempt to limit the influence of outsiders with a financial interest that is detrimental to the goals.


That's enough for now.

 

[bowhunter1023]

I'm not beating the "driving" horse again. That whole debate pisses me off as we've drove deer my whole life and are very successful at it. I hate being lumped in with the dipshits who don't know what they're doing...

I'll comment more on the actual focus of this thread tomorrow.

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

I'm not beating the "driving" horse again. That whole debate pisses me off as we've drove deer my whole life and are very successful at it. I hate being lumped in with the dipshits who don't know what they're doing...

I'll comment more on the actual focus of this thread tomorrow.

No joke, I got to participate in some extremely high quality drives last year and had the time of my life. It doesn't matter how many guys there are, it's the character of the guys that matter.

 

[Lundy]

No matter how well a drive is conducted there can be no doubt that drives are detrimental to deer populations.

Just a fact that many could not or would not kill a deer if they were not participating in a drive.

The population in my little area would still be flourishing even with the high bag limits over the years because these guys could not even begin to kill the numbers they kill every year if they had to kill them through any method other than drives.

Anybody that has participated in drives knows full well how effective they can be as compared to non drive hunting. It's not about how many you are allowed to kill it is about how many are killed.

 

[Schu72]

I see the 2 biggest probelms being hunter access and deer distribution. Not easy probelms to slove when the state is overwhelmingly private property. Even within some counties there are significant variations in deer density. Micro management is needed but unrealistic.

Oh...and telecheck is garbage. The state will NEVER have accurate data when you can print and copy your own tags. You can't manage anything with out reliable data.

 

[cotty16]

No joke, I got to participate in some extremely high quality drives last year and had the time of my life. It doesn't matter how many guys there are, it's the character of the guys that matter.

You guys are absolutely right. Can we screen who gets to put on drives? Lol

 

[nis1]

I agree that people can put in quality drives, I'm just against them on public lands. I've never hunted gun season on public but I've read a million posts about people putting on massive drives with no respect for others and that's my issue. Granted drivers sometimes run deer to people on stand but there needs to be respect for other hunters trying to bag a deer.

 

[Hedgelj]

I agree that people can put in quality drives, I'm just against them on public lands. I've never hunted gun season on public but I've read a million posts about people putting on massive drives with no respect for others and that's my issue. Granted drivers sometimes run deer to people on stand but there needs to be respect for other hunters trying to bag a deer.

I hunt one of the larger tracts of public land in the state (Egypt Valley Wildlife area and Piedmont Lake region). The group I hunt with does do primarily drives but I also will break off from them and still hunt on my own from time to time. There is no way that drive hunters hit even half of the ground in that area. Do the areas within a few hundred yards of the road get hit hard, yes but that's how I've found it in any public area of the state when hunting anything.

I've read more posts on here about people having no respect for others regardless of driving deer, going onto private land regardless of signage, stealing items (cams, stands, etc) and just generally being douchenozzles than about any specific activity. The problem is a lack of respect, and that's a current cultural problem just look at the news.

 

[nis1]

I hunt one of the larger tracts of public land in the state (Egypt Valley Wildlife area and Piedmont Lake region). The group I hunt with does do primarily drives but I also will break off from them and still hunt on my own from time to time. There is no way that drive hunters hit even half of the ground in that area. Do the areas within a few hundred yards of the road get hit hard, yes but that's how I've found it in any public area of the state when hunting anything.

I've read more posts on here about people having no respect for others regardless of driving deer, going onto private land regardless of signage, stealing items (cams, stands, etc) and just generally being douchenozzles than about any specific activity. The problem is a lack of respect, and that's a current cultural problem just look at the news.

You make a good point. A lot of people are just a-holes in general. I'm in NE Ohio and the majority of public lands around me aren't very large (40-500 acres) so I was thinking more about it being an issue on smaller tracts of land.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Just a fact that many could not or would not kill a deer if they were not participating in a drive.

Agreed. The biggest reason I do not support banning drives is I believe there are other options in regards to bag limits, opportunities (days/access) and conducting more accurate counts, that will help the population rebound, but do not cut out something that is a rich tradition in this state. We as hunters should not have to change something we've done for generations because the DNR knowingly gave us enough rope to hang ourselves.

Oh...and telecheck is garbage. The state will NEVER have accurate data when you can print and copy your own tags. You can't manage anything with out reliable data.

I agree with this also. People are simply not checking deer in now, I can promise you that. To have heard the number of shots I've heard in the small sample size of our county that I've been in this week, and for us to have checked in so few deer, I'm confident that Telecheck is not being used. I know some of you people have a hard time believing that people would rather physically take their deer somewhere to check in, but its the damn truth where I'm from.

I agree that people can put in quality drives, I'm just against them on public lands.

Also agreed. A good drive REQUIRES that everyone in the immediate vicinity of the drive know where the standers are, where the drivers will come through, and what the safe shots will be. I'd whip someone's ass if I was in a crossfire on public land!
____________________________

Back to the nature at hand... :smiley_beard:

A fix comes from both angles: the DNR and the hunters. The DNR needs to get off the lobbyist's tit and start managing our deer herd with the deer/hunters in mind. Hunters need to be proactive and start educating one another. I think we are doing that here on TOO right now, so we are taking baby steps towards this as we speak. This was a problem created from one party giving the other party enough rope to hang themselves knowingly full well that they'd hang themselves. The DNR knew increasing opportunity and bag limits would be met with open arms and the impending destruction would be swift and wide spread. Know that a growing number of hunters are beginning to see that the wool was pulled over our eyes, it is time to react accordingly.

We need an accurate deer count. We need to manage our state on a county by county level, which would aid in the deer count in my laymans opinion. How do we fund this? Raise NR license and tag fees by 50-100% and make residents buy a $10 Habitat Stamp for hunting deer. I'm on the record for saying I believe NR get off cheap here and as a resident, I would be happy to pay $10-20 that went towards a management program/system that promoted deer numbers and hunter access.

I would support a shortened bow season as well. October 15-January 15 would be fine with me. Get rid of the early muzzleloader, leave gun season alone, go back to muzzleloader being the last 4 days of the year, and reduce tags to 2 (1 buck, 1 doe) statewide for 2-3 years or until the county by county system was fully implemented.

Go back to check stations and use some of the addition revenue as incentive to check in deer. Although a smart business owner would willing do this.

We need to figure out how to fund a coyote bounty and that comes with promoting coyote hunting/trapping. I think it is on the rise in popularity, so that trend needs to continue.

Just some ideas off the top of my head...

 

[hickslawns]

I keep biting my tongue. The thread is how would "You" fix it? You guys have posted some great ideas and suggestions.

I believe "I" would fix it (if I had a magic wand that worked) by cleaning house and cutting ties with the lobbyists and ODNR. I believe this is the biggest problem. I know there are various factors contributing to the declining herd. I think the issue is the unwillingness to care about, "we the hunters", and our input on the matter. The suggestions to solve the problem by you guys have been thought provoking and appreciated. I don't want to derail Dante's thread with this becoming an ODNR bashing session. We have plenty of them on the forum already. I am simply stating "my" solution would not start with specific rules/laws. "My" solution would start with figuring out how to get the powers that be to genuinely listen to the hunters and attempt to pacify (even if it is with "some" compromise) the hunters. No large group can ever be entirely pacified. I get this. At the present time though, an entire group (we the hunters) are being ignored.