Deer harvest trend continues down

[DJK Frank 16]

I agree that some people were cheating before telecheck. Those will continue to do so. My thinking is that some that never did before are doing it now. It is just to easy to not check in the kill. Put on your homemade temporary tag, making transport legal. Take the deer home and process it and toss the tempoary tag. Make a new homemade tag and go shoot another one.

The only saving grace is that the average hunter shoots only 1.2 deer per season. Lets rephrase that to actual tems. The average hunter only CHECKS IN 1.2 deer per season.

I don't disagree with that at all, but how has telecheck made the scenario that you explained any different than before? It was a temp tag (handwritten) during transport before telecheck.

 

[Hortontoter]

Yes, but that temp tag was part of your over the counter tag that had to be seperated and then attached to the deer. Those buying tags online or using landowner permits, made their own tags though. But, if you bought an over the counter tag you could only use it once, not over and over again.

 

[Hortontoter]

My thought is that it doesn't cost the state $24 or $15 to produce a tag like they used to. The state loses the cost of a tag to save probaly less than $1 to make one. Its government spending at its best, sounds like they need a new money manager.

 

[DJK Frank 16]

Yes, but that temp tag was part of your over the counter tag that had to be seperated and then attached to the deer. Those buying tags online or using landowner permits, made their own tags though. But, if you bought an over the counter tag you could only use it once, not over and over again.

Didn't the over the over the counter tags print on the same paper as printer paper? Just make a couple copies. $4 replacement if you lost it as well...

 

[Schu72]

Didn't the over the over the counter tags print on the same paper as printer paper? Just make a couple copies. $4 replacement if you lost it as well...

No. It was a platicy (not a real word) kind of "paper".

 

[DJK Frank 16]

No. It was a platicy (not a real word) kind of "paper".

Still all it costs someone to temp tag one for transport is a $4 replacement for a lost tag.

Either way, I don't think the guys spotlighting/shooting them with rifles at night are going to take the time to temp tag them anyway.

 

[Hortontoter]

Before the plastiy type they were a thin cardboard type paper.

 

[Hortontoter]

Still all it costs someone to temp tag one for transport is a $4 replacement for a lost tag.

Either way, I don't think the guys spotlighting/shooting them with rifles at night are going to take the time to temp tag them anyway.

I think you are missing the point. The die hard poacher is not who I'm referring to. I'm talking the average Joe that gets his deer home safely with his temp tag and says "I'm home, why bother calling and spending money on another tag, I'll just make me a new one at no cost. Just to easy to not be tempted to do so.

 

[DJK Frank 16]

I think you are missing the point. The die hard poacher is not who I'm referring to. I'm talking the average Joe that gets his deer home safely with his temp tag and says "I'm home, why bother calling and spending money on another tag, I'll just make me a new one at no cost. Just to easy to not be tempted to do so.

Any my point was, how does telecheck make this easier than the year before telecheck came along?

 

[Big_Holla]

Any my point was, how does telecheck make this easier than the year before telecheck came along?

I think it's the combination with what else came with the telecheck system, paper tags printed off any printer. I see your point that telecheck alone likely isn't helping the poacher any more than before. However, back in the day of having to take it in your neighbor and friends eyes and ears would know if you actually did when you took it to town. Now with the telecheck you just tell your neighbor "yeah I called it in"....if he even asks.

 

[Schu72]

Still all it costs someone to temp tag one for transport is a $4 replacement for a lost tag.

Either way, I don't think the guys spotlighting/shooting them with rifles at night are going to take the time to temp tag them anyway.

How many times could you report your tag lost before someone got suspicious? All of that would be doccumented in the ODNRs system. Making 10 photocopies at home is not detectable. Again...my point isn't that poaching didn't happen before, just that it is much easier now. It is much easier to lie to a phone or computer that it is to stare someone in the face and lie. Temptation is always there, some of us have a strong moral compass, others do not. Many are somewhere in the middle and given enough opportunity people will stray.

 

[Jackalope]

No. It was a platicy (not a real word) kind of "paper".

The store bought ones cost 3 bucks to get reprinted. But if someone was going to use the "copy a tag" method they would just print one at home. Internet tag sales were around long before telecheck and the "copy a tag" scheme has been around longer than that. Telecheck had no impact on that

 

[Schu72]

The store bought ones cost 3 bucks to get reprinted. But if someone was going to use the "copy a tag" method they would just print one at home. Internet tag sales were around long before telecheck and the "copy a tag" scheme has been around longer than that. Telecheck had no impact on that

Do you know when tags could first be purchased online? I truely don't remember, but didn't think it was that long ago. There have been many types of tags over the years, none that I remember could be replicated until the internet puchases were available.

 

[Hortontoter]

My age is my problem. I was hunting deer long before the internet existed. I've never bought a tag online. The state wants the herd diminished and they are making it quite easy to do.

 

[Big_Holla]

Do you know when tags could first be purchased online? I truely don't remember, but didn't think it was that long ago. There have been many types of tags over the years, none that I remember could be replicated until the internet puchases were available.

Several years back you could buy them on the internet and they would be mailed to you so I think you are right.

 

[Jackalope]

How many times could you report your tag lost before someone got suspicious? All of that would be doccumented in the ODNRs system. Making 10 photocopies at home is not detectable. Again...my point isn't that poaching didn't happen before, just that it is much easier now. It is much easier to lie to a phone or computer that it is to stare someone in the face and lie. Temptation is always there, some of us have a strong moral compass, others do not. Many are somewhere in the middle and given enough opportunity people will stray.

Easier to lie to who? Some shop keeper who is more interested in you buying a Coke and bag of chips than checking your deer? He's not law enforcement and could care less about asking you questions to try and trap you. Hell, half the time I checked one in I filled out the paperwork and handed them the clipboard back then they handed me an unsnapped tag. Your argument about it's easier doesn't make sense. Doesn't matter if you have 1 way or 20 ways to cheat, the cheating will be just as prevalent.

 

[DJK Frank 16]

I can see everyone's point. I'm not advocating that telecheck is the best system around, I just think it makes it a lot easier and convenient for those that are hunting legally.

Back to the OP's point about harvest numbers, I just don't see telecheck has being a huge factor for the reduction in deer harvest numbers.

 

[Ohiosam]

A big part of the reason they went to telechek was the expense and hassle of maintaining 3-5 check stations in every county. WOs had to make frequent stops at those. Some places it was hard to find businesses in convenient parts of some counties. When we went to Sunday hunting some check stations were closed on Sunday. Then after all that some check stations weren't diligent in their duties and some outright would help guys cheat.

I think the ODNR looked at all the pros and cons and decided check stations weren't really helping enough at keeping guys honest to justify the hassle.

Most guys here are seeing much lower numbers of deer. That is being confirmed by lower kills that are checked in. If the amount of cheating was that much greater now then before telechek how much higher should the actual numbers killed be? 10k, 20k, 30k?

As far as the bucks tagged as does I'd think looking at long term buck:doe harvest ratios would shed light on how much cheating occurs.

 

[Schu72]

Easier to lie to who? Some shop keeper who is more interested in you buying a Coke and bag of chips than checking your deer? He's not law enforcement and could care less about asking you questions to try and trap you. Hell, half the time I checked one in I filled out the paperwork and handed them the clipboard back then they handed me an unsnapped tag. Your argument about it's easier doesn't make sense. Doesn't matter if you have 1 way or 20 ways to cheat, the cheating will be just as prevalent.

And you think my argument make no sense..wow.

 

[finelyshedded]

I agree with those who think that there is MORE cheating/poaching going on now because telechek has made it easier to do it and get away with it.