Deer harvest trend continues down

[Bigslam51]

I agree that some people were cheating before telecheck. Those will continue to do so. My thinking is that some that never did before are doing it now. It is just to easy to not check in the kill. Put on your homemade temporary tag, making transport legal. Take the deer home and process it and toss the tempoary tag. Make a new homemade tag and go shoot another one.

The only saving grace is that the average hunter shoots only 1.2 deer per season. Lets rephrase that to actual terms. The average hunter only CHECKS IN 1.2 deer per season.

The "average hunter" is people like us, who check in what we kill. We don't need to poach deer, its not fair to the animal and we are good enough to go out and get it done on their terms. I'm not worried about spending another $24 on a tag, the only thing that pisses me off is TONK is getting my $24.

 

[Jackalope]

And you think my argument make no sense..wow.

It doesn't. There are hundreds of ways I can rob a bank. but I wont.. Just because you add a few more ways doesn't mean I will.

If anything telecheck makes it easier for guys NOT to cheat. It's more convenient, has better hours than check stations, is open Sundays, and you don't have to reload and unload a deer just to take it to a check station. All of these things makes it more likely that someone will not check it. I am willing to bet there was more accidental unchecked deer than intentionally unchecked under the old system. By accidental I mean check station is closed and has to wait until tomorrow, something comes up and they forget. Too late now, if i check it now I might get a ticket. It's safe where it is, nobody knows, I'm not going to chance it. Or the check station is closed and they have to wait. but they need the truck for work so they unload the deer, the next day they either don't feel like loading it back up or can't by themselves so it doesn't get checked. I am willing to bet there was far far far more of that than guy who set out premeditated to cheat the system. That premeditated guy is going to cheat if there is one way or 20 ways. But now those incidentals are a ton easier to check.



There is even the incidental but helpful cheating. In the old check station days a guy had to drag his wife to the check station to check his deer as her. He got cold feet and wasn't going to risk it so he cuts it up in the barn.. Today he can simply call and check it in as her. A cheater is still a cheater under both methods, but the reality is the DNR got a harvest report that they wouldn't have before. He's a cheater under either method. Nothing changed there. but the dnr got a more accurate number. The DNR doesn't care who shot the thing. They care about the number.

 

[Hortontoter]

The "average hunter" is people like us, who check in what we kill. We don't need to poach deer, its not fair to the animal and we are good enough to go out and get it done on their terms. I'm not worried about spending another $24 on a tag, the only thing that pisses me off is TONK is getting my $24.

I don't think we are the average hunter. I can't tell you how many guys I no longer hunt with because they always wanted to bend the rules. I guess I'll take Joe's advice. Next buck I shoot I'll have my wife check it in on a landowner permit and I'll go shoot another one. All the state cares about is the number killed anyways. C'mon lets get realistic.

IMO the state will never have an idea how many are really killed regardless of the system used to report them. Its all a farce. Plain and simple, there are less deer in Ohio than there were five years ago.

 

[Bigslam51]

Are we "super hunters"? There's always been and always will be people who butcher their deer in the barn without a tag on it.

 

[Jackalope]

I don't think we are the average hunter. I can't tell you how many guys I no longer hunt with because they always wanted to bend the rules. I guess I'll take Joe's advice. Next buck I shoot I'll have my wife check it in on a landowner permit and I'll go shoot another one. All the state cares about is the number killed anyways. C'mon lets get realistic.

IMO the state will never have an idea how many are really killed regardless of the system used to report them. Its all a farce. Plain and simple, there are less deer in Ohio than there were five years ago.

You haven't talked to the DNR much have you. I will assure you their primary concern first and foremost is killing deer to lower the population. Their goal isn't to make more bucks, so why would they care about one less. Their goal isn't to grow the population, it's to reduce it. They don;t care about buck numbers as they're killing the deer that birth them. If they cared about bucks they wouldn't be slaughtering the females that produce them. Sure they have to maintain a appearance that they care because if they didn't it would be wildly prevalent. The reality is they wan't less deer. They're not overtly concerned that people are cheating.

Here is a scenario. Say I put in a tip that you shot an extra buck and checked it on your wife. How long, if ever, would it take your GW to show up? Then on the other hand, say I left a tip that you shot a black bear. I bet you have 3 of them in your driveway within the hour.

But I digress. The point wasn't that cheating is more prevalent or somehow acceptable. The original point someone made was telecheck has led to lower numbers of checked deer. I'm saying that's incorrect as a cheater that's always a cheater is more likely to check it under his wife than never check it at all like he used to. The cheating happened either way. But now the DNR has a number.

 

[teej89]

To me the temporary paper, handwritten, tag is most of the problem. You can hunt state land, tag it with a piece of paper, bring it home and still never call it in if you don't want to. Not saying Michigan has it any better but here you get your actual permanent tag that you have to punch out and attach before you move the animal. Sure there are always those that simply won't tag or try to pull a fast one but it helps cut down on those that decide once they get home not to call it in. Also, the only way to get a replacement is by contacting the MDNR, no quick re-print, no fill out a slip of paper to get you home, etc.. To me Ohio is missing the boat by not having a permanent tag to begin with, the number could still be mandatory and entered/added after. Of course though, they are saving big $$ by not having to supply special paper, printing machines or tags by having the store print them off of an every day printer.

I'm with you. I grew up in PA and we ALWAYS had permanent tags that had to be on the deer before it was moved. And they were different colors each year and a type of material that you couldn't just scan and replicate your license. I feel there should be permanent tags because once it's punched/written on the deed is done and can't be undone. You can't scan it and make a fake one till you get it home then toss it and never tag the deer. When you buy doe tags they get mailed to you and you have to go to the courthouse to pic up doe tags during the season if there are any left.

Yeah you'll still have the people try to sneak one out without tagging it but I feel there's a greater chance of getting caught with a permanent tag on the deer.

 

[RedCloud]

Here is an idea and just popped in my head. Suppose the DNR is putting on this doe killing spree to try and get the average age of buck killed to be older then the 1.5-2.5 year old. We was once a big buck state and for the most part we still are but we are slipping with the new way of thinking of the hunters. The old way was if you shot a doe you sucked as a hunter. Now they are just seen as toss away deer and meaningless. If the average hunter only shoots one deer per year and they give that 1 hunter the chance to shoot a doe for $15 then it potentially saves a buck down the road, right? This does 2 things for the DNR, It allows bucks to gain age and size and reduces the deer herd at the same time.

 

[teej89]

Here is an idea and just popped in my head. Suppose the DNR is putting on this doe killing spree to try and get the average age of buck killed to be older then the 1.5-2.5 year old. We was once a big buck state and for the most part we still are but we are slipping with the new way of thinking of the hunters. The old way was if you shot a doe you sucked as a hunter. Now they are just seen as toss away deer and meaningless. If the average hunter only shoots one deer per year and they give that 1 hunter the chance to shoot a doe for $15 then it potentially saves a buck down the road, right? This does 2 things for the DNR, It allows bucks to gain age and size and reduces the deer herd at the same time.

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I could agree with this somewhat. There are a lot of hunters out there that are strictly meat hunters and will shoot any buck. Not that this is a bad thing. But if that fat nanny doe comes walking past before that forkhorn does they're most likely gonna whack the doe. However this is on the assumption they don't keep going back out till their tags are full which most meat hunters will do because they're trying to provide.

 

[Bigslam51]

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I could agree with this somewhat. There are a lot of hunters out there that are strictly meat hunters and will shoot any buck. Not that this is a bad thing. But if that fat nanny doe comes walking past before that forkhorn does they're most likely gonna whack the doe. However this is on the assumption they don't keep going back out till their tags are full which most meat hunters will do because they're trying to provide.

And there's nothing wrong with providing for your family, I do the same, I did pass on a lot of small bucks this year until I took my 6 point. It just sucks that I have to feel bad about shooting another doe to provide, it shouldn't be that way. One more and I'm done, that'll make 3. I would love to shoot 3 does but one more should be enough meat.

 

[RedCloud]

Nothing wrong with harvesting a deer to eat but part of the problem is our herd size. It can't sustain the multi kills anymore. TOO many years of liberal bag limits has shrank the herd down so low that a guy goes out and kills 3 does or more and they can't bounce back fast enough to recoup that loss because we continue to bang the shit out of them. If you kill 3 doe and have less fawns dropping because of it the recruitment isn't there anymore. Add in the shrinking woodlots and fencerows and add in bigger subdivisions that you can no longer hunt and county, city, parks popping up and the growth of coyote populations and other factors such as the debate about tags vs telecheck and you can see where the problems are.

Goes right back to the ol " Give them enough rope to hang themselves " When the state only allowed bucks only or even the (1) either sex tags what did the same guys shooting multiple deer now do then for food? They shot their one deer and visited the butcher or whatever. I am by no means saying don't provide food for your family but there has to be a breaking point sometime. supplement with squirrels, rabbits, and other species like we use to when you could only shoot one deer.

 

[Hortontoter]

I would think it is less expensive to buy meat at the grocery store to provide for the family. Hunting requires money, quite a bit of money. Figure in gas, clothes, equipment and all the other stuff. I know I could have filled a couple freezer in just the money I spent on gas in Oct. and Nov.

As far as telecheck, we will never all agree so I'm done whipping the dead horse.

 

[DJK Frank 16]

I agree, no way in hell Hardin county should be a 4 deer county. That is a lot more detrimental to the deer herd than anything else IMO. It's time to tighten the reigns on the bag limits and let the herd catch up.

 

[brock ratcliff]

There were 114,633 deer shot during shotgun season in 2009. There were 75,408 shot this year. I think there are just LESS deer. Telecheck may in theory have some breaking rules, but I don't think it's much more so than ever. Many of us were able to guess relatively close to what the gun season harvest would be, simply by looking at the harvest trend over the last few years, the trend seems to continue.

 

[RedCloud]

There were 114,633 deer shot during shotgun season in 2009. There were 75,408 shot this year. I think there are just LESS deer. Telecheck may in theory have some breaking rules, but I don't think it's much more so than ever. Many of us were able to guess relatively close to what the gun season harvest would be, simply by looking at the harvest trend over the last few years, the trend seems to continue.

Agreed.

I just looked at the trend data that was posted and figured it out. For sure wasn't going to be the same or higher so it was really just a good guess at how much lower to go. Not bad only being about 1600 lower then what was actually reported.

 

[Bigslam51]

I would think it is less expensive to buy meat at the grocery store to provide for the family. Hunting requires money, quite a bit of money. Figure in gas, clothes, equipment and all the other stuff. I know I could have filled a couple freezer in just the money I spent on gas in Oct. and Nov.

As far as telecheck, we will never all agree so I'm done whipping the dead horse.

My best spot I walk or drive my polaris ranger TOO, my other spots are no more than 5 minutes from the house. So gas isn't an issue for me. As far as I'm concerned shooting 1 doe on one property and one on another that can handle it isn't going to hurt.

 

[Bigslam51]

Nothing wrong with harvesting a deer to eat but part of the problem is our herd size. It can't sustain the multi kills anymore. TOO many years of liberal bag limits has shrank the herd down so low that a guy goes out and kills 3 does or more and they can't bounce back fast enough to recoup that loss because we continue to bang the shit out of them. If you kill 3 doe and have less fawns dropping because of it the recruitment isn't there anymore. Add in the shrinking woodlots and fencerows and add in bigger subdivisions that you can no longer hunt and county, city, parks popping up and the growth of coyote populations and other factors such as the debate about tags vs telecheck and you can see where the problems are.

Goes right back to the ol " Give them enough rope to hang themselves " When the state only allowed bucks only or even the (1) either sex tags what did the same guys shooting multiple deer now do then for food? They shot their one deer and visited the butcher or whatever. I am by no means saying don't provide food for your family but there has to be a breaking point sometime. supplement with squirrels, rabbits, and other species like we use to when you could only shoot one deer.

So is it safe TOO say that you have only killed one deer per season in the last 18 years?

I could go out and shoot 2 more does but I'm not going too. I'm going to shoot one more because that's all I need. I mean wtf, I don't mess with squirrels, I hunt rabbit but I like venison and that's what we live off of. I don't want to go to the store and buy meat, our pork is raised at my ol lady's sisters farm, and that's where we get eggs TOO. What really needs too happen is a serious cut on the crop damage tags issued to farmers. So there's me doing my part, I'm only going to take 2 does instead of the 3 I am allowed, and the other one won't even be from the same property. I'm seeing more does around here now than I was in the early season. Another thing, I have killed exactly 6 deer in the last 18 years, I am 30 years old. Why you ask? Because I had a drinking problem and all I did was go out,get fugged up, bang strange women on occasion, and get in trouble. I have been sober for over 2 years, of those 6 deer I have killed in the last 18 years, 5 of them are from the last 2 years with a bow. Bowhunting and hunting in general is what I do for fun now. I always loved hunting but I had no control over the bottle, so I'm sorry if you think I'm over doing it. Rant over, that is all. No hard feelings Redcloud, at least you know me better now lol.

 

[Hedgelj]

A big part of the reason they went to telechek was the expense and hassle of maintaining 3-5 check stations in every county. WOs had to make frequent stops at those. Some places it was hard to find businesses in convenient parts of some counties. When we went to Sunday hunting some check stations were closed on Sunday. Then after all that some check stations weren't diligent in their duties and some outright would help guys cheat.

I think the ODNR looked at all the pros and cons and decided check stations weren't really helping enough at keeping guys honest to justify the hassle.

Most guys here are seeing much lower numbers of deer. That is being confirmed by lower kills that are checked in. If the amount of cheating was that much greater now then before telechek how much higher should the actual numbers killed be? 10k, 20k, 30k?

As far as the bucks tagged as does I'd think looking at long term buck:doe harvest ratios would shed light on how much cheating occurs.

The year or two before telecheck there was No legal way to hunt turkeys in Knox county on Sunday.

 

[RedCloud]

So is it safe TOO say that you have only killed one deer per season in the last 18 years?

I could go out and shoot 2 more does but I'm not going too. I'm going to shoot one more because that's all I need. I mean wtf, I don't mess with squirrels, I hunt rabbit but I like venison and that's what we live off of. I don't want to go to the store and buy meat, our pork is raised at my ol lady's sisters farm, and that's where we get eggs TOO. What really needs too happen is a serious cut on the crop damage tags issued to farmers. So there's me doing my part, I'm only going to take 2 does instead of the 3 I am allowed, and the other one won't even be from the same property. I'm seeing more does around here now than I was in the early season. Another thing, I have killed exactly 6 deer in the last 18 years, I am 30 years old. Why you ask? Because I had a drinking problem and all I did was go out,get fugged up, bang strange women on occasion, and get in trouble. I have been sober for over 2 years, of those 6 deer I have killed in the last 18 years, 5 of them are from the last 2 years with a bow. Bowhunting and hunting in general is what I do for fun now. I always loved hunting but I had no control over the bottle, so I'm sorry if you think I'm over doing it. Rant over, that is all. No hard feelings Redcloud, at least you know me better now lol.

You are correct. I have never shot more then one deer per season and it would be closer to 23 years or so since I started deer hunting. I have purchased extra tags but they end up unfilled and I just see that as my donation to the DNR. Glad you found something you like and put down the bottle. I have no hard feelings. I don't care what you shoot or don't shoot. I was simply showing that we as hunters and caretakers of our resources need to think about what we are doing before it is too late. Sorry if you felt I was calling you out and singling you out. I did not intend it to come across in that way.

 

[ajupsman]

My buddy and I were talking this year on our trip to Ohio how easy it would be to shoot a young buck and not report it. Now we are honest hunters and would never do this but we were wondering how many hunters are tempted to do it now that it's much easier to do. We have hunted public land only for the last three years. We hunt in Muskingum county which is one of the most popular counties to hunt in the state. We also hunt during the most popular weeks of November. We have never seen a game warden. I find that amazing and I think it tells a little of the story. I think the lack of law enforcement along with the implementation of writing your own temporary tags tells me they really don't care if more deer than legally allowed are killed. If they did care you would think we would have run in to a game warden a few times over the last 3 years. Especially considering we are non residents hunting public land in a popular county during the rut. I believe the ODNR has been told to reduce the deer population at all costs and that's exactly what they are doing.

 

[Milo]

My buddy and I were talking this year on our trip to Ohio how easy it would be to shoot a young buck and not report it. Now we are honest hunters and would never do this but we were wondering how many hunters are tempted to do it now that it's much easier to do. We have hunted public land only for the last three years. We hunt in Muskingum county which is one of the most popular counties to hunt in the state. We also hunt during the most popular weeks of November. We have never seen a game warden. I find that amazing and I think it tells a little of the story. I think the lack of law enforcement along with the implementation of writing your own temporary tags tells me they really don't care if more deer than legally allowed are killed. If they did care you would think we would have run in to a game warden a few times over the last 3 years. Especially considering we are non residents hunting public land in a popular county during the rut. I believe the ODNR has been told to reduce the deer population at all costs and that's exactly what they are doing.

Not seeing game wardens because they are guiding their out of state (read resident )fellow game wardens. .