ODNR Ready for hunter's complaints

[Milo]

Fun fact for you..

Where i live in 2000 population 110k deer crashes with autos.. 534
2013 population 185K deer crashes ....415

statistically how do you double population and decrease deer crashes by 20%? = herd decimation...and where do you stick and extra 75K people = loss of access and WORK HARDER properties you cant hunt ...legally anyways

i sure as hell hope you don't have to drive 2 hours one way to have better deer hunting. but its coming your way soon enough. hope your ready

 

[Hedgelj]

Fun fact for you..

Where i live in 2000 population 110k deer crashes with autos.. 534
2013 population 185K deer crashes ....415

statistically how do you double population and decrease deer crashes by 20%? = herd decimation...and where do you stick and extra 75K people = loss of access and WORK HARDER properties you cant hunt ...legally anyways

i sure as hell hope you don't have to drive 2 hours one way to have better deer hunting. but its coming your way soon enough. hope your ready

Nice post

 

[Gern186]

True...to some extent. Can't help but imagine the trailcam pics we could have had 15 years ago!

You cannot win this debate Chad. If your area had been cleaned out as mine has, and apparently a lot of other's, someone saying there is just a lack of effort is insulting. I know what we HAD, and I know what we HAVE. I know I hunt harder now (have more time) than ever, and I know what I've heard come out of Mike Tonkovich's mouth. I know I have ZERO confidence in the ODOW's management plan, so at least on the Fayette properties, I've got my own...and the DOW has no input on that piece of ground anymore.

Brock...what debate is there? You and your son have passed up multiple opportunities on deer this year...some darn nice ones...have you not?

What we have now compared to what we HAD...how many do we need to have opportunities to be successful? That's where i am coming from. Do we need to kill 200,000 deer every year to make everyone happy? How about 300,000? 150,000? What do you think?

 

[Milo]

Lets look at Van Wert

population in 2000 - 10,690 deer crashes 89
population in 2013 - 28,500 deer crashes 108



I have 6.5 TIMES as meany people to deal with if we assume an even number of hunter to population distribution... and lets not get into access to land.. actually in theory i should probably be seeing 5 times as many mature whitetails on the hoof because they have more places to hide than you. But that's not the reality is it?

 

[Gern186]

Mature whitetails are mature whitetails...you could have 5 mature bucks for every 1 of mine....but they are still as elusive as individual animals....just because there are more..don't mean you are going to see more. Does...yes...you should see more...but not mature bucks.

 

[teej89]

Fun fact for you..

Where i live in 2000 population 110k deer crashes with autos.. 534
2013 population 185K deer crashes ....415

statistically how do you double population and decrease deer crashes by 20%? = herd decimation...and where do you stick and extra 75K people = loss of access and WORK HARDER properties you cant hunt ...legally anyways

i sure as hell hope you don't have to drive 2 hours one way to have better deer hunting. but its coming your way soon enough. hope your ready

wouldn't have ever guessed youre an engineer loL! I'm right there w/ you tho, all bout the #s

 

[Redhunter1012]

Guys, it wont be the DNR helping your herd size. It will take a concentrated effort by everyone in your area. This past Muzzy season Mike came down to hunt with us and remarked how healthy our herd was. 4-5 years ago it wasn't the case. What happened for us was a great thing. First of all, the locals have hunted the coyotes to near extinction in our area, and continue to do so. And secondly, basically all of the local "groups" that gun hunt together and most of the bowhunters decided on our own that we weren't gonna kill does in our area. For the most part, everyone stuck to it. Last year was the first that any of the groups started shooting Does again, and it was only a few. This year a few guys in our group took some does for the first time in 5 years. One more great side effect was our young buck numbers. By not shooting button bucks thinking they were Does, we now have a shit ton of nice 2.5-3.5 year old bucks. For the first time in a long time, Im confident I could go sit any night of the week this late in the year and take a fat doe, and if I had a buck tag, I know I could fill it. It's sad on one hand that our locals had to say enough is enough, but it really is cool to know that enough guys cared to take a stand.

 

[Milo]

Mature whitetails are mature whitetails...you could have 5 mature bucks for every 1 of mine....but they are still as elusive as individual animals....just because there are more..don't mean you are going to see more. Does...yes...you should see more...but not mature bucks.

statistically that's impossible chad. I saw them 3 years ago. I bet they are just hanging out together playing playing slap jack during the rut. I'm also not seeing that many does which is what my previous comment you quipped about was for.

 

[MK111]

Interesting reading different views from different areas of the state.
6-8 years ago I seen the same thing here with less deer. I even asked the local GW if there was poaching in the area. He said none he knew of.
Then the adjoining neighbor converted their 110 ac. farm into a high quality horse hay growing production area. Plus in 2103 I put in a adjoining food plot and these 2 things caused me to see more deer than in 23 years. So at this time we are good here but I feel for everyone else.
I've lived through NO deer to what we have now so believe it or not it's better now than it was many years ago. But I agree it's not what it was several years ago.

Just don't let this discussion become a personal thing between TOO members.

 

[Gern186]

LOL...You are right MIlO...

I don't know shit about fuck,,,


I will exit this conversation now.

 

[Schu72]

Interesting reading different views from different areas of the state.
6-8 years ago I seen the same thing here with less deer. I even asked the local GW if there was poaching in the area. He said none he knew of.
Then the adjoining neighbor converted their 110 ac. farm into a high quality horse hay growing production area. Plus in 2103 I put in a adjoining food plot and these 2 things caused me to see more deer than in 23 years. So at this time we are good here but I feel for everyone else.
I've lived through NO deer to what we have now so believe it or not it's better now than it was many years ago. But I agree it's not what it was several years ago.

Just don't let this discussion become a personal thing between TOO members.

Good post. I think this has become an issue for many hunters. Food plots and bait piles have altered deer distribution and may limit their need to travel for food. Hunting is fantastic on some properties and a mile down the road you might not see a deer all season.

 

[Milo]

LOL...You are right MIlO...

I don't know shit about fuck,,,


I will exit this conversation now.

maybe you do, maybe you don't but that's completely up to you. i saw the mature bucks 7-8 years ago and i'm on better property now than i was back then. maybe i missed their cloaking device. I've laid the facts out there for you to decide for your own but again, that's up to you. maybe i should read a book about deer hunting or something. seems the last 30 years i have spent in the woods was all for wasted time. I know a couple of dam good hunters on here who settled for some deer this year and there are some really good hunters still holding tags

 

[yotehunter]

Come on Joe...that's not comparing the same thing. Some guys pass up opportunities on multiple deer waiting on just the right one to shoot....look at your season. My season was an exception to the rule...hunted 1 time for about an hour and a half and kill a big one. Last year I hunted a couple hundred hours before i punched a tag....still had opportunities and I really enjoyed the pursuit...didn't care if it took me another 100 hours to kill one....late season last year was phenomenal. What im saying is you can't tell me its harder to kill a deer in a county that kills 2 or 3 thousand deer than it is in a county that only kills 1,000

Gern, I would like to know how many hours you put in the tree on a average week. Me myself averaged 27 hours every week until I killed my buck on the 18 the of November. Many times with my children with me. My sighting of deer was maybe 5 a week. And that was about 3.5 bucks to every one doe. And a lot of times it was a yearling or two. Those are not stellar stats. And I'm not just hunting a 8 acre piece of property off the side of the road.Its prime areas. As far as hunting harder.I don't know how you expect a working man to hunt any harder. And then you bring kids into it. I would love to be able to show my 8 year old son a deer behind every tree. But that's not realistic. But it would be nice for them to see a deer when they go. If a 8 year old gets up at 530 am every weekend and sits in the cold wet weather for 4 he's a day and not see any deer. Then I don't care how bad they have the bug they are not going to stay interested. This is my biggest reason to have a decent herd. Its not for me I could give a Fugger less I've killed my share of deer over the years. I've seen the best deer hunting in Ohio. I just hope my children get half the opportunity that I've had over the years. And at this rate they are not. And if you think otherwise your crazy. Just keep shooting every deer you see and let us know what you have when your grandkids want too hunt. If odnr doesn't reduce limits its going to be bad news. I'm not saying you shoot every deer you see but 95 percent of guys will. The other five percent can't yell loud enough stop shooting does. Odnr is has to stop them.
As far as permits allowed.My county of Allen which is 75 percent rural wide open farmland has the same number of tags as several se Ohio such as Jackson county. Are you fuggin kidding me. Who set these numbers the insurance companies have for sure. My case and point I work for ODOT. Every deer we pick up off our state highways is recorded and charged to a DNR code. This just started 5 years ago in my district of eight nw counties. This is how they set their limits of kill permits. Just because my county has two major interstates running through it means we have too many deer? Absolutely not the case. My county should be 1 buck and one doe.

 

[hickslawns]

I would like to stand up for Gern. Not sure if I can. I hunting Hocking Co and some of Vinton a few years ago. Compared to Allen/Auglaize counties, it was amazing. I would see dozens of deer every sit. Unbelievable. I could have walked on their heads back to my truck from the stand it seemed. That said, I feel I was in a pocket of good deer. Then again, as I drove around after dark, I saw deer all over. It was amazing. Locally, I used to see at least a few deer in the distance on most sits just a few years ago. Last year and this year, this was not the case. I won't scream Chicken Little "The Sky is Falling" yet, but it is enough to take notice. This year, I saw more bucks than I have ever seen. I feel this is the first indication of the reduction in the herd. With fewer does, there are more bucks searching. I believe I may see a couple more years of amazing buck hunting. The price we will pay for it is reduced number of available bucks in the next few years. More visible, more of them will die. Why are they more visible? Less does. It is a downward spiral. Unless my local area has a reduction in doe kills, I fear seeing what others have complained about.

I will stand up for Gern in saying I fully believe there are pockets of excellent hunting. On the contrary, I am afraid these areas are becoming fewer. In my area, it scares me to see only a group of one or two does here and there. It scares me that I had 25-30 DIFFERENT bucks on camera on a property this year from late October to early December. I am talking about random bucks (big or small) I had never laid eyes on. Was it great? Heck yeah. Is it a sign of reduced does? I am afraid so. Hope I am wrong. I haven't been playing this game as long as most of you. Maybe I shouldn't comment at all. To notice a difference in a 7yr hunting period is scary. I am afraid the depleted deer areas are growing faster than the great pockets of deer areas. I hope it doesn't hit Gern's area. I hope my area rebounds a bit. We never had a ton of deer, but when the groups of 4-6 regulars are now 1-3 deer showing up every third or fourth day. . . Not singing the blues yet, but proceeding cautiously.

 

[reo]

Chad - you apparently aren't in an area that has felt the reduction just yet. I remember your pictures of yarding deer last winter... you will NOT find that sort of thing here, and would not have seen herds like that for at least the last 10 years. You are up around Van Wert aren't you? If I remember correctly, your area just raised the bag limit 3 or 4 years ago, I think. We had 4 tags for years, until our primary gun season harvest bottomed out at 83 deer! Mike Tonkovich told Mrex to pass along to me that he would be reducing our bag limit the next year. He sent that message only a couple of days after those gun season numbers came out. I think we have every reason to whine! I first hunted Fayette Co in 1994, the year that I married KR and moved over here. There were deer in every woodlot...but there aren't many woodlots. Today, I could walk through a half dozen woodlots before I see a deer! The only reason I see the deer I do is because one of my landowners has kicked EVERYONE but me off the properties. They are rebounding on that ground, but surrounding properties are desolate. I don't think people complaining about low deer numbers is unfounded. When I first started whining, the rest of the state thought I was nuts... not the case today. If you choose to believe the rest of the hunters that are now complaining are just too lazy, or want it too easy, or don't like to get cold, or don't know how to hunt... you are naïve.

100% agree! I hunt in Coshocton County and have for the last 25 years. Most years I would have 25-40 deer sightings while on stand per season. I have not seen that many in the last 4 seasons COMBINED. I did not just fall off the turnip truck. I hunt hard, play the wind and am meticulous about being scent free. I set multiple stands in summer. There is one reason and one reason only that my deer sightings have become what they are. Because the piles of dead does drug out to the side of the road and pick up trucks full of dead does during gun season made possible by rules and regulations set by the DOW. Now before anyone gets their panties in a bunch I am not anti-gun hunting it is just that gun season is the most effective way to reduce the population and the tool used by the DOW to accomplish their goals.

 

[bowhunter1023]

I love ya Chad, but you're in a bubble brother. I hunt harder and smarter than I ever have and see less deer. Either I really suck or there are less deer. Pretty simple really...

 

[lung buster]

I would like to stand up for Gern. Not sure if I can. I hunting Hocking Co and some of Vinton a few years ago. Compared to Allen/Auglaize counties, it was amazing. I would see dozens of deer every sit. Unbelievable. I could have walked on their heads back to my truck from the stand it seemed. That said, I feel I was in a pocket of good deer. Then again, as I drove around after dark, I saw deer all over. It was amazing. Locally, I used to see at least a few deer in the distance on most sits just a few years ago. Last year and this year, this was not the case. I won't scream Chicken Little "The Sky is Falling" yet, but it is enough to take notice. This year, I saw more bucks than I have ever seen. I feel this is the first indication of the reduction in the herd. With fewer does, there are more bucks searching. I believe I may see a couple more years of amazing buck hunting. The price we will pay for it is reduced number of available bucks in the next few years. More visible, more of them will die. Why are they more visible? Less does. It is a downward spiral. Unless my local area has a reduction in doe kills, I fear seeing what others have complained about.

I will stand up for Gern in saying I fully believe there are pockets of excellent hunting. On the contrary, I am afraid these areas are becoming fewer. In my area, it scares me to see only a group of one or two does here and there. It scares me that I had 25-30 DIFFERENT bucks on camera on a property this year from late October to early December. I am talking about random bucks (big or small) I had never laid eyes on. Was it great? Heck yeah. Is it a sign of reduced does? I am afraid so. Hope I am wrong. I haven't been playing this game as long as most of you. Maybe I shouldn't comment at all. To notice a difference in a 7yr hunting period is scary. I am afraid the depleted deer areas are growing faster than the great pockets of deer areas. I hope it doesn't hit Gern's area. I hope my area rebounds a bit. We never had a ton of deer, but when the groups of 4-6 regulars are now 1-3 deer showing up every third or fourth day. . . Not singing the blues yet, but proceeding cautiously.

Must of been a damn good pocket of Hocking, Hicks! I've hunted Hocking for 25 years and I can tell that this was the worst season yet. Andrew hunted close to 60 times and seen a total of a whopping 3 does in those sits! We seen several small bucks but the amount of does in our area is alarming!!!

 

[hickslawns]

I can send you the topo maps if you PM me your email. Not saying they will still be like this 3yrs later but might give you something to think about. Never know. You might know a landowner in the nearby vicinity you never thought of asking permission. More than willing to send them lungbuster.

 

[Kaiser878]

Here's my take on chads thoughts. I don't think he doubts your numbers are lower than what your used to..... I believe what a lot of you are experiencing in numbers is what he has been hunting for years. I've hunted with chad..... and its miles of fields.... and one chunk of woods.... if the deer don't happen to be in your wood lot.... your not going to see em. One day I saw none.... the next I saw 13..... most of you had multiple target deer.... and his eyes, heck even mine.... that's a good year..... all that's left to do is kill em....

I think the problem is that everyone has different expectations. I can only speak for myself.... and I think chad would agree.... it doesn't hurt our feelings to not see a ton of deer. As long as the deer we see are the right ones..... I understand though that some people are not satisfied with that.... maybe I shouldn't be satisfied with that..... maybe I'm missing something.....

 

[Beentown]

...lol