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Got ya... what's your 4 yo dogs name? did u run hunt tests with him?Kaiser..... Rip, will be almost 6 months when we are in NoDak. Not my first rodeo, I will not be gunnin when handling the pup, and his old man will be backing to shag cripples and handle blinds. Its more about working the birds and dogs for me anymore. Plus dog handler does not have to clean birds. Hard to get 100 + retrieves in a season in Ohio. We get that in a week out there. It's alot of in your face pothole shooting with fairly easy retrieves. He will start hunt tests next spring!