Huckleberry Finn
Senior Member
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Can't. You need to watch it to understand the full scope and depth. it goes through funding, student loans, rising cost, government subsidy, benifits vs non degree holding peers, economic, and so on.
Huckleberry Finn
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An hour? Dang. I seem to get by alright without a four year degree. College is just a necessary evil to get your foot in the door sometimes. Afterwards you prove what you got to your employer.
Ohiosam
*Supporting Member*
With three kids in college I definitely believe much of our education system is a scam. However in many fields the correct piece of paper is required and that paper is only available at a college/university.
Sat through YSU's graduation yesterday and listened to the "highly educated" administrators pat each other on the back and spew their BS about how the grads can do anything now that they have their diplomas. Felt sorry for the liberal arts, fine and preforming arts kids who will have a hard time finding jobs after spending 4+ years and $60,000+. Many of the kids coming out with medical, engineering, computer will be OK.
Parents are partly to blame. I see many parents encourage kids to go to colleges that they can't afford just so they can brag. Parents enable the kids by letting them take unmarketable majors or behave irresponsibly while at school.
Sat through YSU's graduation yesterday and listened to the "highly educated" administrators pat each other on the back and spew their BS about how the grads can do anything now that they have their diplomas. Felt sorry for the liberal arts, fine and preforming arts kids who will have a hard time finding jobs after spending 4+ years and $60,000+. Many of the kids coming out with medical, engineering, computer will be OK.
Parents are partly to blame. I see many parents encourage kids to go to colleges that they can't afford just so they can brag. Parents enable the kids by letting them take unmarketable majors or behave irresponsibly while at school.
I have two-2 year degrees, got my job I do now doing not much of anything that has to do with my degree with probably no chance of moving into a position that I will use it, but I feel that the degrees had a play into me getting the job, seeing as I had zero experience. Now if you asked me if I thought that 40k student loan bill was worth the job I have now? It would probably depend on the day you catch me. I'm thankful for what I have and I work hard every day.
Looks like I got some lunch break material tomorrow, will have to give it a watch.
Looks like I got some lunch break material tomorrow, will have to give it a watch.
I am enrolling in guidance counseling classes. I'm fairly confident I could do the job without the required piece of paper.
Huckleberry Finn
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Watch their other video, Death of the Dollar menu, Joe. Great joke at the end, they talk about the decrease of technology prices, namely Kindle's. They say "of course, there's something cheaper than that - reading an actual book" and show a copy of Atlas Shrugged. Ironic? I figure that's about your favorite book.
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I think your opinion on that may change substantially after watching the video. Eye opening to say the least. Goes into a bunch of stuff about costs, why it's expensive, why quality suffers but prices rise etc.
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I'll say this. I don't believe the guidance counselor at my daughters high school has any training what-so-ever. Hard to believe she has any business doing that job.
I've seen your posts for some time now Cotty. I respect you. I have no doubt you would be an asset to the school and the kids. Best of luck!
Huckleberry Finn
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rgecko23
*Supporting Member*
College is def. a scam. If they would get rid of all the "Pre-Rec's" Than you would save about 50% of the cost of college tuition I bet. Its rediculous how much college is probably going to cost me when my kids go......ugh
Agreed, that's why I chose the college that I did. 75% of the courses were actually related the my degree, not a bunch of gen ed's. That and the fact that I paid 9k a year vs. 23k a year which would have been the tuition for my 2nd college of choice.
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How old are they? College has gone up 5% per year for 40 years and isn't expected to stop. The average is 24,000 right now. So if they are 8 when they are 18 the average will cost you 39,182 per year or 156,328 for an average 4 year degree.
My wife keeps getting on me about the investment programs designed for your kids college. I tell her "I didn't get any help, you didn't get any help, let them figure it out on their own. It will build character." In all honesty though, she is probably right. We should be doing something. I am thinking of going belly up just before they go to school so they can get a free ride, but then I think we already have a thread something like that around here somewhere?
huntn2
Senior Member
I haven't watched the video yet, but I can tell you from my experience and discussions with friends, family and colleagues, I think it is a scam.
I tell people all the time you really have to know what you want to do before going to a school. I would never recommend a private school to someone who wants to pursue a profession that will not enable them to make 6 figures annually within x number of years unless they are on a full ride or damn near close to one.
There just isn't a quick enough return on the investment. The average student graduates with $24k in student loan debt. So 50% have more than that. If you start running numbers it is clear that college graduates are set for failure out of the gate.
For example, let's assume the following scenario. A student graduates with $30k in student loan debt and lands a job paying $40k.
After putting 6% into a retirement plan and after taxes, benefits, etc. the individual is pulling in approximately $2,300 per month. Now let's add up the monthly expenses..
Total monthly expenses will be approximately $2275. Obviously these expenses can and will vary but they are just swaggers for an example.
Reality is the individual has about $25 left after deducting these monthly expenses. I hope they don't need to change their oil, repair/replace anything, buy any cloths, cooking utensils/other items for a place, get a haircut, buy toothpaste, deodorant, shampoo, soap, dish detergent, laundry detergent, co-pay for doctors/dentist, etc.
Basically, the individual will start racking up credit card debt in order to get by. This in turn will limit their ability to purchase a home or pump money back into the economy.
They will have 4 options.
I can't tell you the number of people I know (some of them are teachers) who have $30k-$45k in student loan debt from their undergraduate and another $10K-$20K in a masters. They have 15 year payment plans and have entered professions that will never enable them to make enough to justify the expenses they have incurred.
It is a tough environment for graduating students to enter. Something must change. I know I didn't need to take 2 religion classes, 3 philosophy classes, a couple history classes, etc. in order to be successful. You could easily restructure college programs to enable someone to get out in 2-3 years. I say enable because some want to take their time and spend 5-6 years in college (this is not meant towards those who are doing school while working/raising a family, etc.) but I am referring to those living off mommy and daddy and just enjoying the ride.
I tell people all the time you really have to know what you want to do before going to a school. I would never recommend a private school to someone who wants to pursue a profession that will not enable them to make 6 figures annually within x number of years unless they are on a full ride or damn near close to one.
There just isn't a quick enough return on the investment. The average student graduates with $24k in student loan debt. So 50% have more than that. If you start running numbers it is clear that college graduates are set for failure out of the gate.
For example, let's assume the following scenario. A student graduates with $30k in student loan debt and lands a job paying $40k.
After putting 6% into a retirement plan and after taxes, benefits, etc. the individual is pulling in approximately $2,300 per month. Now let's add up the monthly expenses..
- Student Loans: $275
- Car Payment: $300
- Car Insurance: $75
- Car Gas: $150
- Rent: $800
- Utilities (Gas, Elect, TV/Internet): $200
- Cell Phone: $75
- Food: $400
Total monthly expenses will be approximately $2275. Obviously these expenses can and will vary but they are just swaggers for an example.
Reality is the individual has about $25 left after deducting these monthly expenses. I hope they don't need to change their oil, repair/replace anything, buy any cloths, cooking utensils/other items for a place, get a haircut, buy toothpaste, deodorant, shampoo, soap, dish detergent, laundry detergent, co-pay for doctors/dentist, etc.
Basically, the individual will start racking up credit card debt in order to get by. This in turn will limit their ability to purchase a home or pump money back into the economy.
They will have 4 options.
- Move home to try and save
- Get a roommate to help with the living expenses
- Rack up more and more debt
- Get a 2nd job
I can't tell you the number of people I know (some of them are teachers) who have $30k-$45k in student loan debt from their undergraduate and another $10K-$20K in a masters. They have 15 year payment plans and have entered professions that will never enable them to make enough to justify the expenses they have incurred.
It is a tough environment for graduating students to enter. Something must change. I know I didn't need to take 2 religion classes, 3 philosophy classes, a couple history classes, etc. in order to be successful. You could easily restructure college programs to enable someone to get out in 2-3 years. I say enable because some want to take their time and spend 5-6 years in college (this is not meant towards those who are doing school while working/raising a family, etc.) but I am referring to those living off mommy and daddy and just enjoying the ride.
But are they going to be able to make that 40K without that degree, or will it be more like 25-30k when they are working part time or in a factory making 10-13 bucks an hour? If that's the case wouldn't the student loan pay for itself within the first 5-7 years and then anything after that be toward the good?